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Thread: More ammo to rid the fire service of alcohol.......

  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    In the future, please be a little more regionally specific. That is clearly a SoCal salad bowl.
    sorry --I didn't mean to paint all you prune pickers with the same brush-guess I need a road trip.
    ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Here and there View Post
    Sorry to derail the horse beating, but this is something I will never understand. I can't help but think that the same popularity contest mentality that elects officers is partially tied to the beer in the fire house issue. How is a leader supposed to make the hard decisions when the "men" will vote him out for making the unpopular right choice (like ditch the bar).
    I have a better question. How is a rank and file firefighter supposed to respect the office of a man who in a drunken fit of anger beat the crap out of subordinate in violation of the town's workplace anti-violence policy?

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    I have a better question. How is a rank and file firefighter supposed to respect the office of a man who in a drunken fit of anger beat the crap out of subordinate in violation of the town's workplace anti-violence policy?
    I have an even better question. WTF are you talking about?
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    I have an even better question. WTF are you talking about?
    Hi Snowball, pleased to meet you. Read my 2 posts above.

    I thought Here and there was responding to my post when he said "I can't help but think that the same popularity contest mentality that elects officers is partially tied to the beer in the fire house issue." In my original post, I had related an incident where 2 officers beat the crap out of subordinate after all had been drinking after a wetdown. One of those officers in that incident was recently re-elected to be a line officer.

    Maybe I was mistaken about what Here and there was posting about. No need to be so rude. Have a great day.

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    Hi Snowball, pleased to meet you. Read my 2 posts above.

    I thought Here and there was responding to my post when he said "I can't help but think that the same popularity contest mentality that elects officers is partially tied to the beer in the fire house issue." In my original post, I had related an incident where 2 officers beat the crap out of subordinate after all had been drinking after a wetdown. One of those officers in that incident was recently re-elected to be a line officer.

    Maybe I was mistaken about what Here and there was posting about. No need to be so rude. Have a great day.
    from the wet down reference im guessing your from jersey - and you consider that rude ?
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    from the wet down reference im guessing your from jersey - and you consider that rude ?
    yeah and from my profile, which says NJ. All it took was snowball to read a few posts up to figure out what was going on, but some like to rip someone before reading a few posts up in the thread. I'll live, after all, I'm from NJ.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Yes, here's their uniform.
    Attachment 23225
    Engine guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Perhaps these people should be seeking psychiatric help and/or seeking assistance from A/A instead of being Volunteer Firefighters if the physical contents of their beverage makes them feel "more at ease."
    So one or two beers after training makes them candidates for AA? Really?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So one or two beers after training makes them candidates for AA? Really?
    Based upon what you have told us, I would say ABSOLUTELY!!
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    yeah and from my profile, which says NJ. All it took was snowball to read a few posts up to figure out what was going on, but some like to rip someone before reading a few posts up in the thread. I'll live, after all, I'm from NJ.
    It wasn't a rip, it was a question. I missed your post as I have my pages set up with fewer posts per page. I must have missed your post even though mine came in right after, on a new page. Are you the guy that got the beat down?
    IAFF

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    sorry --I didn't mean to paint all you prune pickers with the same brush-guess I need a road trip.
    Come on out! We'll get all liquored up and try to find a "prune" tree. Then I'll head your way and you can show me a cigarette field.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    It wasn't a rip, it was a question. I missed your post as I have my pages set up with fewer posts per page. I must have missed your post even though mine came in right after, on a new page. Are you the guy that got the beat down?
    Not the guy that got the beat down, but I know of him, and it was a fairly big story in NJ when it happened 3 years ago. But back to my point, and the one that Here and there made (and the point of the thread), the culture of booze and bars in volunteer firehouses needs to change. The example I cited is a good one of an organization that does not get it. Officer gets drunk and beats snot out of firefighter. Officer removed from office, when he should have been removed from department. 3 years later, officer is back in the ranks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So one or two beers after training makes them candidates for AA? Really?
    No. The fact that they feel that they absolutely, positively need to have an alcoholic beverage in order to feel "at ease" does. The fact that they cannot feel "at ease" with a coke, a pepsi, a Dr Pepper, an iced tea, a coffee, a water, a lemonade or a glass of milk does.
    FyredUp and scfire86 like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Come on out! We'll get all liquored up and try to find a "prune" tree. Then I'll head your way and you can show me a cigarette field.
    sounds good --- no cigarette fields here , I think that is in Kentucky -but up in the Ozarks, they do grow stuff to smoke.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    Not the guy that got the beat down, but I know of him, and it was a fairly big story in NJ when it happened 3 years ago. But back to my point, and the one that Here and there made (and the point of the thread), the culture of booze and bars in volunteer firehouses needs to change. The example I cited is a good one of an organization that does not get it. Officer gets drunk and beats snot out of firefighter. Officer removed from office, when he should have been removed from department. 3 years later, officer is back in the ranks.
    Had that been a career department, both parties involved would have been terminated and one would have been prosecuted. Worlds apart...
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    No. The fact that they feel that they absolutely, positively need to have an alcoholic beverage in order to feel "at ease" does. The fact that they cannot feel "at ease" with a coke, a pepsi, a Dr Pepper, an iced tea, a coffee, a water, a lemonade or a glass of milk does.
    There is no doubt that not having beer after drill would have made no difference in their attending, and likely staying after drill to socialize.

    The simple fact was we had no issues with members getting drunk and no issues with members who chose to drink responding. They understood the rules and the rules were enforced.

    Again, you keep using present tense. This was on a department 30 years ago that no longer allows drinking at the station. And again, neither does either of my current departments.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-15-2013 at 06:42 PM.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    Not the guy that got the beat down, but I know of him, and it was a fairly big story in NJ when it happened 3 years ago. But back to my point, and the one that Here and there made (and the point of the thread), the culture of booze and bars in volunteer firehouses needs to change. The example I cited is a good one of an organization that does not get it. Officer gets drunk and beats snot out of firefighter. Officer removed from office, when he should have been removed from department. 3 years later, officer is back in the ranks.
    What if the guy really DESERVED a beatdown?

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD1234 View Post
    I have a better question. How is a rank and file firefighter supposed to respect the office of a man who in a drunken fit of anger beat the crap out of subordinate in violation of the town's workplace anti-violence policy?
    I don't think one could, but apparently the members felt it wasn't an issue since they re-elected him. I wouldn't belong to an organization like that and would do what I could to get my local politicians to replace it with an actual fire department.

    Didn't comment on that incident specifically because it was a localized incident, or at least I hope so. Electing officers and drinking are a wide spread issue afflicting the volunteer fire service, both a byproduct of people treating the fire department as a social club instead of an emergency service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    There is no doubt that not having beer after drill would have made no difference in their attending, and likely staying after drill to socialize.

    The simple fact was we had no issues with members getting drunk and no issues with members who chose to drink responding. They understood the rules and the rules were enforced.

    Again, you keep using present tense. This was on a department 30 years ago that no longer allows drinking at the station. And again, neither does either of my current departments.
    Then you should have no problem agreeing that alcohol shouldn't be in the firehouse.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The simple fact was we had no issues with members getting drunk and no issues with members who chose to drink responding. They understood the rules and the rules were enforced.
    Good, then it's a moot fuchking point- you should have ZERO issue with banning alcohol in firehouses. Period.
    scfire86 likes this.
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