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Thread: More ammo to rid the fire service of alcohol.......

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Nonsense, you know as well as I do that would never fly in your volunteer FD. hell you can't get enough guys now.
    We have a strict rule regarding no alcohol in my volunteer station as well as my combos station, and yes, it would be enforced in both places.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    I absolutely agree with you, it is not just a volunteer issue.

    But lets compare both the career and volunteer firehouses.

    The career environment does not have any alcoholic beverages permitted on firehouse property and obviously working under the influence is unacceptable. The only way alcohol would be in the firehouse is if someone took it upon themselves to violate department policy, which is obviously a big offense. No officer in their right mind would allow the member to work and it would be taken care of at a company level.

    The volly house on the other hand, has beer on tap at all times available to members.

    I know of no department where this is the case. In the last VFD that allowed beer in the station (which was almost 30 years ago) it was available only after drills. All other times the keg handles were locked in the Chiefs' office.

    Members may come and go as they please and potentially ride the rigs under the influence. This includes the officers and worse the chiefs. Heck for all you know the guys on the rig responded to the station from the local watering hole...

    And we have no idea if a career member is ducking out to his vehicle where he has cold beer on ice in the cooler in his trunk.

    The major difference is one is 75% social club, 25% public service and the other is 100% public service. (ok maybe 90%, we have our fun )

    You want to say that the volunteer fire service is 75% social club, fine, but I disagree. is there a strong social element in some departments? Sure. And in small community that's not a bad thing at all as it opens the door to business donations and such. I will not downplay the importance of the social element in VFDs.

    As far as parades go, cops firemen and anyone else in the parade usually enjoy a few beverages, but they do so off duty. If they take it upon themselves to get in the rig and drive, or an officer actually knows and allows it, shame on them and they should be punished. Occurrences like that will never be put to end even if prohibition made a come back. It is the responsibility of the officers to control themselves at such events so that they may ensure the safety of the men and those they may encounter.

    Agree.



    Disclaimer: I am a volunteer and career member. I do not consume alcohol so I could honestly care less if we banned it entirely...
    Again, I am not condoning the fire department as a party house, but I have no issues with one, two or even three beers being consumed after drill or a work detail as long as there are rules in place supported by enforcement to prevent response by those drinking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Exactly. Drinking and responding is the issue. Not where you drink.

    Oh, it matters where the drinks were consumed or where they were provided. It's very naive to think otherwise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Agree that would not be the time for beer in the firehouse.

    That being said, it can be managed with rules and policies that are enforced.
    And, do you really wonder why no one takes you serious?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    And, do you really wonder why no one takes you serious?
    I'll take morons for $2,000 Alex. Look it's the Daily Double.

    A: Bossier Parish

    Q: Name the municipality that has the largest collection of morons posing as firefighters in the US?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Again, I am not condoning the fire department as a party house, but I have no issues with one, two or even three beers being consumed after drill or a work detail as long as there are rules in place supported by enforcement to prevent response by those drinking.
    Why not Coke, or Dr Pepper, or Iced Tea?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Why not Coke, or Dr Pepper, or Iced Tea?
    An excellent and obvious solution. Hence the chances of it being adopted by LAFE's group of idiots is absolutely ZERO!
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    An excellent and obvious solution. Hence the chances of it being adopted by LAFE's group of idiots is absolutely ZERO!
    I would have hoped that you noticed that I clearly posted that it has been over 30 years since I was on a department that allowed drinking at any time in the firehouse.

    That includes both my current full-time and volunteer departments where absolutely no alcohol is allowed in the fire station at any time.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    And, do you really wonder why no one takes you serious?
    Funny thing is that I know of several departments in the Albany NY area that have bars in the station and have very strict rules, which are also enforced, regarding drinking and responding.

    To think that somehow there are departments that are not capable of managing this through policies and enforcement is just plain ignorant.
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    ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz.

    The fact that you even remotely condone it tells me all I need to know about you and your gang of idiots masquerading as firefighters.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz.

    The fact that you even remotely condone it tells me all I need to know about you and your gang of idiots masquerading as firefighters.
    And exactly what have I condoned?

    Show me where I have stated that members should be allowed to respond after drinking.

    Show me where I have stated that alcohol should be allowed in either station.

    Yes, I have stated that there is nothing necessarily wrong with allowing a limited amount alcohol consumption during very limited times under supervision with enforced non-response polices, but I have never stated that I would like to see it in place in either ones of my current departments.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-04-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And exactly what have I condoned?
    Right here you stated:


    Yes, I have stated that there is nothing necessarily wrong with allowing a limited amount alcohol consumption during very limited times under supervision with enforced non-response polices, but I have never stated that I would like to see it in place in either ones of my current departments.
    I like how you answer your own questions. The professionals I know don't condone a "limited amount of alcohol consumption during very limited times under supervision with enforced non-response policies."

    Morons are okay with it.

    NO ALCOHOL IN THE FIREHOUSE......PERIOD!!!!
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    This issue is such a COMPLETE no-brainer to me. It sends the wrong message and it invites liability.

    The fire service doesn't need those kind of headlines.
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    Why would you want to have a training night or a drill night and then have a few drinks afterwards? If everyone followed the no respondie after drinkie rule, beers after drill could very well leave the citizens without a fire department.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Why would you want to have a training night or a drill night and then have a few drinks afterwards? If everyone followed the no respondie after drinkie rule, beers after drill could very well leave the citizens without a fire department.
    Conrad, you're going to confuse LAFE with logic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Wrong. You must have beer in the firehouse?

    And for the record, the banquet hall or whatever your department calls it that is ran by the fire department still counts. From an outside view it will be looked at as drinking at the firehouse, regardless of technical terms.

    If you can't manage to make it home before you need a beer you may want to seek counseling.
    Even if it's a licensed bar?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhode House View Post

    Even if it's a licensed bar?
    Licensed bar and fire department property should never go together.

    The reason this is a regional thing is because the rest of the country figured out it wasn't a good idea a long time ago.
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    Doesn't matter a rats arse if the fire department social hall is a licensed bar.

    This is not the 1800's where the boys got together away from their wives & families to drink and play fireman.

    Yes there are places where the bar & social club are the biggest part of the club ::: err fire department.
    More social members than responding members .

    Say honey ::: I have to go down to the station for a while tonight & polish a few lugnuts, be home about 10.

    These are the same places that are always in the news for the treasurer or club administrator walking off with a few hundred thousand dollars of department funds. Can't go a month without another of those stories in the news. Almost every case of theft is a dept with old school rules and a bar or social club producing lots of cash revenue.
    And YES most of these stories originate from the same state as the original story in this thread.
    Last edited by islandfire03; 12-04-2013 at 10:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Wrong. You must have beer in the firehouse?

    And for the record, the banquet hall or whatever your department calls it that is ran by the fire department still counts. From an outside view it will be looked at as drinking at the firehouse, regardless of technical terms.

    If you can't manage to make it home before you need a beer you may want to seek counseling.
    Actually, my firehouse is still in the process of being rebuilt from Hurricane Sandy damage...but thanks for asking.

    Banquet halls are very common in my area. Many of them are licensed and have fully stocked bars for use of those that rent the hall. And that hall rental income helps keep that fire company building running.

    The fire company I belonged to in PA was the social hall for the town. It had a fully stocked bar and was used quite often by the people who lived in town for many reasons. Can't say I ever heard people from that town linking the firehouse and drinking.

    In my years a Chief, I dealt with 3 incidents of members being on a fire scene under the influence. Yup, none of them involved the firehouse.

    In my experiences with this issue....it had nothing to do with beer at the firehouse. It had all to do with beer and responding.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Why would you want to have a training night or a drill night and then have a few drinks afterwards? If everyone followed the no respondie after drinkie rule, beers after drill could very well leave the citizens without a fire department.
    So they go home and have a beer or two. You still may not have a fire department.

    In the example given, less than half of the members had a beer or two, so we still had a fire department.

    The trick here is that we are talking about volunteers, who can at any time for any reason, can choose not to respond to any call. And that includes the choice to have a beer or two at the fire station with the full knowledge that they will not be allowed to respond.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-05-2013 at 08:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So they go home and have a beer or two. You still may not have a fire department.

    In the example given, less than half of the members had a beer or two, so we still had a fire department.

    The trick here is that we are talking about volunteers, who can at any time for any reason, can choose not to respond to any call. And that includes the choice to have a beer or two at the fire station with the full knowledge that they will not be allowed to respond.
    Yep, sounds good LA, get all the best firefighters together, train 'em and offer them a beer. Best to have a brotherhood based on booze than based on proficiency.
    And yes, I know that we are talking volunteers, and I know volunteers who care more for beer than training or responding. Always irritates me a little. Jezuz, we must not impose on the noble volunteer. I guess some of us got drafted into the volunteer fire service.
    Last edited by conrad427; 12-05-2013 at 09:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Yep, sounds good LA, get all the best firefighters together, train 'em and offer them a beer. Best to have a brotherhood based on booze than based on proficiency.

    I never said that and you know it.

    I would hardly call a beer or two after training "a brotherhood based on booze".



    And yes, I know that we are talking volunteers, and I know volunteers who care more for beer than training or responding. Always irritates me a little. Jezuz, we must not impose on the noble volunteer. I guess some of us got drafted into the volunteer fire service.
    So now you are begrudging some of the guys that show up for training the right to have a beer or two because it will cut into their availability that evening.

    Again, as volunteers it's their choice when they will and will not be available for response.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-05-2013 at 11:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So now you are begrudging some of the guys that show up for training the right to have a beer or two because it will cut into their availability that evening.
    No, he's begrudging some of the guys who show up for training the right to have a beer or two at a training location, because it's stupid.
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    Hey Pubic Hair, you still haven't answered my question......
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Hey Pubic Hair, you still haven't answered my question......
    We also provided free soft drinks after drill for those that did not want a beer.

    Most of the members chose that option, including myself.
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