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Thread: More ammo to rid the fire service of alcohol.......

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I disagree. If a firefighter leaves the station after drinking and is involved in an accident you can bet that the drinking at the firehouse will be brought up and used against the fire department. If you drink at a bar or at home and respond and get in an accident that is on you, UNLESS you make it to the FD and are drivin a piece of fire apparatus.

    Frankly, we need officers with the balls to stand up and say we will be looking at all of you when you respond if we believe you are under the influence and you respond you will be suspended. Period. No second chance, no "Oops, I forgot." Suspended, second time, termination. That hard line will put a bigger dent into the drinking issue than anything else.
    And I have no issue with that level of discipline if a member drinks and responds.
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  2. #22
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The only department in which I have been involved with that had beer in the firehouse had strict policies which was enforced.

    The only time beer was available was after drill.

    You drink ... You don't respond until 6AM the following morning.

    Maximum of 3 beers.

    And they were enforced, so don't compare my experiences to departments that allow problems to go unchecked.
    The only policy required should be that no beer touches fire department property. EVER.

    If you don't think there is a difference in drinking at the station and drinking at a bar, why don't you ask your taxpayers who are funding your department. Drinking on your time somewhere else is on you, but encouraging it on fire department property is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  3. #23
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Exactly. Drinking and responding is the issue. Not where you drink.
    Wrong. You must have beer in the firehouse?

    And for the record, the banquet hall or whatever your department calls it that is ran by the fire department still counts. From an outside view it will be looked at as drinking at the firehouse, regardless of technical terms.

    If you can't manage to make it home before you need a beer you may want to seek counseling.
    islandfire03 likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  4. #24
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The only department in which I have been involved with that had beer in the firehouse had strict policies which was enforced.

    The only time beer was available was after drill.

    You drink ... You don't respond until 6AM the following morning.

    Maximum of 3 beers.

    And they were enforced, so don't compare my experiences to departments that allow problems to go unchecked.
    If your members can't go a couple of hours without waiting to drink until they get home or go somewhere other than a firehouse, there are deeper problems within those individuals.

    I couldn't care less about the silly arse rules of your idiot group of morons.

    It's a firehouse. Not a clubhouse.

    More reasons why the fire service is an object of ridicule when it comes to funding and priorities. We have morons like your members representing us.
    Last edited by scfire86; 12-04-2013 at 12:40 PM.
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  5. #25
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And I have no issue with that level of discipline if a member drinks and responds.
    Nonsense, you know as well as I do that would never fly in your volunteer FD. hell you can't get enough guys now.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Nonsense, you know as well as I do that would never fly in your volunteer FD. hell you can't get enough guys now.
    We have a strict rule regarding no alcohol in my volunteer station as well as my combos station, and yes, it would be enforced in both places.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    I absolutely agree with you, it is not just a volunteer issue.

    But lets compare both the career and volunteer firehouses.

    The career environment does not have any alcoholic beverages permitted on firehouse property and obviously working under the influence is unacceptable. The only way alcohol would be in the firehouse is if someone took it upon themselves to violate department policy, which is obviously a big offense. No officer in their right mind would allow the member to work and it would be taken care of at a company level.

    The volly house on the other hand, has beer on tap at all times available to members.

    I know of no department where this is the case. In the last VFD that allowed beer in the station (which was almost 30 years ago) it was available only after drills. All other times the keg handles were locked in the Chiefs' office.

    Members may come and go as they please and potentially ride the rigs under the influence. This includes the officers and worse the chiefs. Heck for all you know the guys on the rig responded to the station from the local watering hole...

    And we have no idea if a career member is ducking out to his vehicle where he has cold beer on ice in the cooler in his trunk.

    The major difference is one is 75% social club, 25% public service and the other is 100% public service. (ok maybe 90%, we have our fun )

    You want to say that the volunteer fire service is 75% social club, fine, but I disagree. is there a strong social element in some departments? Sure. And in small community that's not a bad thing at all as it opens the door to business donations and such. I will not downplay the importance of the social element in VFDs.

    As far as parades go, cops firemen and anyone else in the parade usually enjoy a few beverages, but they do so off duty. If they take it upon themselves to get in the rig and drive, or an officer actually knows and allows it, shame on them and they should be punished. Occurrences like that will never be put to end even if prohibition made a come back. It is the responsibility of the officers to control themselves at such events so that they may ensure the safety of the men and those they may encounter.

    Agree.



    Disclaimer: I am a volunteer and career member. I do not consume alcohol so I could honestly care less if we banned it entirely...
    Again, I am not condoning the fire department as a party house, but I have no issues with one, two or even three beers being consumed after drill or a work detail as long as there are rules in place supported by enforcement to prevent response by those drinking.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Exactly. Drinking and responding is the issue. Not where you drink.

    Oh, it matters where the drinks were consumed or where they were provided. It's very naive to think otherwise.
    FyredUp likes this.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Agree that would not be the time for beer in the firehouse.

    That being said, it can be managed with rules and policies that are enforced.
    And, do you really wonder why no one takes you serious?
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    And, do you really wonder why no one takes you serious?
    I'll take morons for $2,000 Alex. Look it's the Daily Double.

    A: Bossier Parish

    Q: Name the municipality that has the largest collection of morons posing as firefighters in the US?

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Again, I am not condoning the fire department as a party house, but I have no issues with one, two or even three beers being consumed after drill or a work detail as long as there are rules in place supported by enforcement to prevent response by those drinking.
    Why not Coke, or Dr Pepper, or Iced Tea?
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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Why not Coke, or Dr Pepper, or Iced Tea?
    An excellent and obvious solution. Hence the chances of it being adopted by LAFE's group of idiots is absolutely ZERO!
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    An excellent and obvious solution. Hence the chances of it being adopted by LAFE's group of idiots is absolutely ZERO!
    I would have hoped that you noticed that I clearly posted that it has been over 30 years since I was on a department that allowed drinking at any time in the firehouse.

    That includes both my current full-time and volunteer departments where absolutely no alcohol is allowed in the fire station at any time.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    And, do you really wonder why no one takes you serious?
    Funny thing is that I know of several departments in the Albany NY area that have bars in the station and have very strict rules, which are also enforced, regarding drinking and responding.

    To think that somehow there are departments that are not capable of managing this through policies and enforcement is just plain ignorant.
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  15. #35
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz.

    The fact that you even remotely condone it tells me all I need to know about you and your gang of idiots masquerading as firefighters.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz.

    The fact that you even remotely condone it tells me all I need to know about you and your gang of idiots masquerading as firefighters.
    And exactly what have I condoned?

    Show me where I have stated that members should be allowed to respond after drinking.

    Show me where I have stated that alcohol should be allowed in either station.

    Yes, I have stated that there is nothing necessarily wrong with allowing a limited amount alcohol consumption during very limited times under supervision with enforced non-response polices, but I have never stated that I would like to see it in place in either ones of my current departments.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 12-04-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And exactly what have I condoned?
    Right here you stated:


    Yes, I have stated that there is nothing necessarily wrong with allowing a limited amount alcohol consumption during very limited times under supervision with enforced non-response polices, but I have never stated that I would like to see it in place in either ones of my current departments.
    I like how you answer your own questions. The professionals I know don't condone a "limited amount of alcohol consumption during very limited times under supervision with enforced non-response policies."

    Morons are okay with it.

    NO ALCOHOL IN THE FIREHOUSE......PERIOD!!!!
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  18. #38
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    This issue is such a COMPLETE no-brainer to me. It sends the wrong message and it invites liability.

    The fire service doesn't need those kind of headlines.
    scfire86 and rescue_1 like this.

  19. #39
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    Why would you want to have a training night or a drill night and then have a few drinks afterwards? If everyone followed the no respondie after drinkie rule, beers after drill could very well leave the citizens without a fire department.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by conrad427 View Post
    Why would you want to have a training night or a drill night and then have a few drinks afterwards? If everyone followed the no respondie after drinkie rule, beers after drill could very well leave the citizens without a fire department.
    Conrad, you're going to confuse LAFE with logic.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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