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Thread: More ammo to rid the fire service of alcohol.......

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF-Andy View Post
    Especially an eye roller considering the fact that he wont make an aggressive interior attack unless he's got 20 guys on air and 20,000 gallons in the front yard.
    Has nothing to do with the current discussion.

    (Besides being inaccurate)
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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FF-Andy
    Especially an eye roller considering the fact that he wont make an aggressive interior attack unless he's got 20 guys on air and 20,000 gallons in the front yard.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Has nothing to do with the current discussion.

    (Besides being inaccurate)
    So completely relevant that a blind deaf man could make the connection.
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    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Actually, my firehouse is still in the process of being rebuilt from Hurricane Sandy damage...but thanks for asking.

    Banquet halls are very common in my area. Many of them are licensed and have fully stocked bars for use of those that rent the hall. And that hall rental income helps keep that fire company building running.

    The fire company I belonged to in PA was the social hall for the town. It had a fully stocked bar and was used quite often by the people who lived in town for many reasons. Can't say I ever heard people from that town linking the firehouse and drinking.

    In my years a Chief, I dealt with 3 incidents of members being on a fire scene under the influence. Yup, none of them involved the firehouse.

    In my experiences with this issue....it had nothing to do with beer at the firehouse. It had all to do with beer and responding.
    Since you are in the minority here I am sure you can tell that this whole concept is regional. Of all the wild ideas I have ever heard float around the kitchen table on how we could raise money for the department, not one time has anyone brought up turning the bay into a saloon. I realize this is a stretch by the way, but that is how crazy this sounds to those of us who are funded the way a vital public service is supposed to be funded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Since you are in the minority here I am sure you can tell that this whole concept is regional. Of all the wild ideas I have ever heard float around the kitchen table on how we could raise money for the department, not one time has anyone brought up turning the bay into a saloon. I realize this is a stretch by the way, but that is how crazy this sounds to those of us who are funded the way a vital public service is supposed to be funded.
    And one could argue that providing a place for the community to hold functions, especially in a rural area where a banquet room in the local fire station may be the only option, is also providing a community service.
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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And one could argue that providing a place for the community to hold functions, especially in a rural area where a banquet room in the local fire station may be the only option, is also providing a community service.
    When that "community service" function becomes the overriding concern of the FIRE DEPARTMENT that is an issue of skewed priorities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Has nothing to do with the current discussion.

    (Besides being inaccurate)
    It might as well be accurate. You've made it very clear you won't do interior attack until an exact scenario is present that you deem safe.

    Those conditions are nearly impossible for even career departments to meet. Yet interior attack is done every day at a lesser level than what you deem necessary without anyone getting injured or killed.

    But that is yet another difference between a real fire department and your gang of idiot posers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    It might as well be accurate. You've made it very clear you won't do interior attack until an exact scenario is present that you deem safe.

    Those conditions are nearly impossible for even career departments to meet. Yet interior attack is done every day at a lesser level than what you deem necessary without anyone getting injured or killed.

    But that is yet another difference between a real fire department and your gang of idiot posers.
    We've had this discussion before.

    Move on. Nothing to see here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    When that "community service" function becomes the overriding concern of the FIRE DEPARTMENT that is an issue of skewed priorities.
    Not when the fire department may go to 10 or 15 runs a year.

    Having a banquet hall with a bar available is really a non-issue. the fact is, as Bones have pointed out, there are many places where that facility could host 40, 60, 60 or more events per year bringing in significant revenue to the department. And many times there are no firefighters attending.

    The simple fact is that having a beer or two after drill, if managed does not pose any issues and quite frankly in most places has no affect on the reputation of the fire department.
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    I once did a delivery of equipment for a Massachusetts Fire Academy regional program to a small VFD in the western part of the state. I had to call and arrange the time I would be there as the Chief was out plowing his fields.

    I got to the town, and the Chief showed up driving his tractor to the station. He opened the door for me and told me to drop the equipment in the back room and to lock up when I left, as he still had acreage to till.

    There was a Coke machine in the apparatus bay. Being thirsty, I put my money in the machine and pressed one of the buttons. It wasn't a can of Fresca that came out of the machine, but a can of Miller Lite.

    I left the beer behind and left the station, shaking my head. I am willing to bet that the rest of the machine was filled with beer.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Not when the fire department may go to 10 or 15 runs a year.

    Having a banquet hall with a bar available is really a non-issue. the fact is, as Bones have pointed out, there are many places where that facility could host 40, 60, 60 or more events per year bringing in significant revenue to the department. And many times there are no firefighters attending.

    The simple fact is that having a beer or two after drill, if managed does not pose any issues and quite frankly in most places has no affect on the reputation of the fire department.
    So let me get this right:

    *No need to be held to a standard because you may never need an included skill
    *No real need for formal training because it may take time and effort
    *Its ok to drink at the firehouse because you only have a few runs

    And you wonder why professional/career firefighters will never take a segment of the volunteer fire service serious?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I once did a delivery of equipment for a Massachusetts Fire Academy regional program to a small VFD in the western part of the state. I had to call and arrange the time I would be there as the Chief was out plowing his fields.

    I got to the town, and the Chief showed up driving his tractor to the station. He opened the door for me and told me to drop the equipment in the back room and to lock up when I left, as he still had acreage to till.

    There was a Coke machine in the apparatus bay. Being thirsty, I put my money in the machine and pressed one of the buttons. It wasn't a can of Fresca that came out of the machine, but a can of Miller Lite.

    I left the beer behind and left the station, shaking my head. I am willing to bet that the rest of the machine was filled with beer.
    And that would be a situation where there were no controls and no oversight, hence, a significant issue.

    I also remember about 10 years ago walking into a station in upstate NY, as a civilian, where there were several members drinking beer with a SIGNIFICANT number of empties in the trash can. Again no oversight and no controls, and likely members that would have responded if a call had come in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    So let me get this right:

    *No need to be held to a standard because you may never need an included skill
    ... or that standard ... FFI .... may not cover the skills required in that response area.
    *No real need for formal training because it may take time and effort
    I never stated that there is not a need for formal training at the department,
    regional and state level based not on a generic standard but based on the identified and actual needs
    of the department
    .
    *Its ok to drink at the firehouse because you only have a few runs
    Though I don't like the idea, yes, I have no issues with a beer or two being
    consumed in the firehouse under controls and policies at very limited times


    And you wonder why professional/career firefighters will never take a segment of the volunteer fire service serious?
    Quite honestly, I really don't give a damn if the career fire service takes the volunteer fire service seriously.
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  13. #73
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    Our Chief took a lot of heat once he and the members got our new station built. Almost immediately people wanted to use the station for weddings and such. The citizens and town officials argued that the firehouse was built with public money and it was their right to party there. He said no and the people threw a fit until he explained that the liability issue was huge. I guess it is a case by case issue as banquet halls seem to be popular and effective in other areas.
    We actually had a Chief and most of the department threaten to quit in my state because the city council was trying to force the department to allow parties with booze in his station, the Chief stood up for what was right even though the town and town council would not.

    I guess I see the banquet hall idea as a different issue from allowing firefighters to drink after a run or training.
    Last edited by conrad427; 12-05-2013 at 09:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Quite honestly, I really don't give a damn if the career fire service takes the volunteer fire service seriously.
    Yes, you do. That's part of the reason you hate it so much.

    If you condone alcohol in an engine house, there isn't even a place to start having a discussion. Controls or not, discipline or not, the public relations nightmare alone of having a department member involved in an incident of any kind, with department sponsored alcohol in them should be enough to scare the pants off anyone.

    It does matter where the alcohol is consumed. I just have to shake my head at times. Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Since you are in the minority here I am sure you can tell that this whole concept is regional. Of all the wild ideas I have ever heard float around the kitchen table on how we could raise money for the department, not one time has anyone brought up turning the bay into a saloon. I realize this is a stretch by the way, but that is how crazy this sounds to those of us who are funded the way a vital public service is supposed to be funded.
    In my area, and where I was in PA, the fire company was an incorporated organization. They owned their firehouse and property. The area they served owned the trucks and turnout gear, hose, SCBA, etc. Taxes and such would fund the purchase and maintenance of the trucks, gear, etc. The fire company still had to pay their utilities, building insurance, building maintenance, etc. The fund raisers held were for the company and the company business/property. The vital public service was funded by the public. The building to house that public service had to be funded by the building owners....which was the fire company itself.

    Regional? I guess. I have been in similar firehouses in NJ, PA, NY, FL, and TX.

    Crazy? No, just different. And yes, I know not all areas/fd's are the same.

    I'm not hear to change anyone's mind...just stating an opinion.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Quite honestly, I really don't give a damn if the career fire service takes the volunteer fire service seriously.
    Quite honestly that comes as no surprise to anyone here. Because you have demonstrated on too many occasions to count that you don't give a damn what anyone says unless it agrees 100% with your perverse concept of the fire service.

    I care what my neighboring FDs, think about us, and I care what my friends that are career firefighters think about us. I have worked hard to try and help both of my POC FDs get a reputation as good fire departments filled with trained firefighters.
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    First let me start by saying I am 100% against the consumption of alcohol in the fire station and responding while under the influence.

    However to throw a curve ball into the discussion of the career members on the forums. How many of you all have beer at your union hall?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Quite honestly, I really don't give a damn if the career fire service takes the volunteer fire service seriously.
    You don't speak for any volunteers that I'd call a Brother.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    First let me start by saying I am 100% against the consumption of alcohol in the fire station and responding while under the influence.

    However to throw a curve ball into the discussion of the career members on the forums. How many of you all have beer at your union hall?
    Not even close to the same thing. Not in the firehouse. Not sanctioned by the fire department.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Not even close to the same thing. Not in the firehouse. Not sanctioned by the fire department.

    I never said that the two were the same. But how is that any different that an incorporated volunteer fire department using a seperate banquet hall that serves as a fund raiser?
    Why is it OK for two union brother to have a beer after a union meeting but different if two volunteer brothers go to the banquet hall and have a beer together (provided that proper staffing is maintained).

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