Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 15 FirstFirst ... 6789101112 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 290
Like Tree53Likes

Thread: More ammo to rid the fire service of alcohol.......

  1. #161
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,844

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    No you sir are the one that clearly is missing my point if condoned drinking by a 501c3 volunteer fire department presents such a bad image for the public and politicians why is OK for a professional firefighters labor union to condone the same image to the public and politicians?
    If personal responsibility is entirely acepttable in the union hall but doesn't apply to the volunteer fire department? If the liability is to great for the volunteer fire department (as others have said taking the response component out of the equation in terms of members leaving the station to go home) why is the liability not to great for a union local?
    You can't seruiously be this stupid. If you don't see the difference between drinking in a fire station and drinking in a private building where a labor organization meets then it is pointless for you to even be in this conversation.

    The difference is really quite clear. One is a fire station where people expect to receive assistance if needed. If Jim Bob and Billy Joe and at the firehouse tipping a few beers and Edna Mae pulls in with her 2 year old choking on a hotdog by all of your standards they can't do anything because they were drinking. What image does that project? Further how many believe they won't do something?

    The other is a Union hall, in no way tied to the city or the fire department liability wise. The liability for drinking to the Union is much the same as to a tavern. Further there is no duty to act and less likely a cance that anyone would stop at a Union Hall looking for fire department related assistance.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate


  2. #162
    Forum Member GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,056

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HuntPA View Post
    Evidently you do not get to see the workings of many departments in other areas of the country.

    The department to my west receives no tax money whatsoever. They own all equipment, apparatus, and the building. They have a contract with the municipality to provide coverage.

    We receive tax money directly. Enough to pay our utilities and maintenance on the vehicles. We are set up so that we own everything, unless we dissolve - at which point the municipality would be given the vehicles only. They are not in any way legally liable for the actions of the fire department - only that they have a contract with one to provide for the safety of the people of the township.

    To are north are "Independent Fire Companies". They are in a fire district that receives tax dollars and then through a board of directors is authorized funding through a budget. Again, the municipality is not legally responsible for the actions of the department.

    In all 3 cases the department would be legally responsible for the actions, not the government agency.


    And in the other post where the department has to tell others why some didn't make it, we have done that. After an appreciation dinner, we had a few that were still at the hall and were told to stay there. We then were asked by some of the mutual aid why they didn't see some of the guys. We told them that they were drinking at the banquet and were not allowed to respond. It is not that hard to do really. It is our SOP that if our hall is on a fire that we bring in mutual aid for stand by coverage, so the case of a patient going straight to the hall was covered as well.
    Great idea. Sounds so much easier than just not drinking at the firehouse.

    What would happen if you banned beer tomorrow? Revolt? Mass exodus? Do you really want those guys on the department anyway?
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  3. #163
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper 45 View Post
    Yes. Our dues go towards everything to fund the local. We (local-affiliate) pay for the building and all associated cost. We pay for our principle officers and executive board members to work for the local. We also pay to reimburse the city for any cost to release members of the negotiating committee or other local members to work on behalf of the local, for whatever reason, if said members need to be released from duty.
    We also pay for all food and beverages served during union meetings; this is usually pizza, wings, beer and soda for evening meetings and donuts, coffee, etc... for an AM meeting.
    Thanks Jasper.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #164
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    537

    Default

    [QUOTE=SPFDRum;1393183]
    I would bet that if you polled, most professional firefighters, they would say their union hall is more akin to an elks lodge or VFW as opposed to a fire house. With the exact same resources available.[/QUOte

    First off sorry for the long delay in responding to you. 2nd that you for stating my point. An elks lodge is a social gather place. The union hall is home to a professional trade union. Yes it is a place for brotherhood and bonding amgost firefighters. However that is not the main reason that this organization and its assets exist. It is to provide a organized voice for the firefighter to promote fairness and safety in the work place. Maybe just maybe if we stopped looking at the union hall as a social place and a professional organization we would not be put on the chopping blocks and much. If you want a social organization join the emerald society.

  5. #165
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    537

    Default

    I obviously am not making my point clear here. I am in no way trying to justify drinking in a firehouse by saying we drink in the union hall. I am merely pointing out that I do not think that it presents a professional image of a organized bussiness minded labor union. I feel that it presents a image more akin to an elks lodge or moose lodge and opens the local up to liability legally and public opinion wise. That is all. I clearly understand that it is a private building and that no response is expected out of the building. In my earlier points I was trying to show that many of the arguments of why drinking is perfectly fine in a union hall are the similar to the arguments people have used in the past to justify why drinking is OK in the firehouse.

    It is really that simple. I feel that alcohol should not be in the union hall as it is a place of bussiness. Clearly if I feel that way about it even in the union hall then you can only imaginey view on alcohol in a firehouse. My personal opinion is no alcohol consumption 8 hours prior to even going near a firehouse.
    conrad427 likes this.

  6. #166
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    537

    Default

    [QUOTE=RFD21C;1393431]
    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post

    I would bet that if you polled, most professional firefighters, they would say their union hall is more akin to an elks lodge or VFW as opposed to a fire house. With the exact same resources available.[/QUOte

    First off sorry for the long delay in responding to you. 2nd that you for stating my point. An elks lodge is a social gather place. The union hall is home to a professional trade union. Yes it is a place for brotherhood and bonding amgost firefighters. However that is not the main reason that this organization and its assets exist. It is to provide a organized voice for the firefighter to promote fairness and safety in the work place. Maybe just maybe if we stopped looking at the union hall as a social place and a professional organization we would not be put on the chopping blocks and much. If you want a social organization join the emerald society.
    My apologies for the improper quote and any mispeelings typing on my phone apparently is more difficult then I had anticipated

  7. #167
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,537

    Default

    If anyone can't go more than a few hours / days / weeks without having a drink::: They might just have a drinking problem.
    Don't care if it's at the office, the fire station , the union hall or a ball game.
    End of discussion.

    Need to drink::: get help.
    LVFD301 and conrad427 like this.

  8. #168
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Agree that would not be the time for beer in the firehouse.

    That being said, it can be managed with rules and policies that are enforced.

    You are such an idiot. Really. alcohol has NO business in the fire service, with the possible exception of rubbing alcohol.

    None.

    NONE.

    It CAN NOT BE MANAGED with RULES AND POLICIES when it makes the 6pm news.

  9. #169
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    The more I read about what is accepted by some of these VFD's the happier I am to live in a city that is served 100% by professionals.

    LEO's never have these types of issues within their ranks. I cannot understand why the FDs (Pro or Vollie) should be any different.
    And I am certainly happy you do live there. Far away from here. Anyways, LEO's don't have volunteer stations, with completely volunteer agencies. You are comparing apples to volkswagens.

  10. #170
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Has nothing to do with the current discussion.

    (Besides being inaccurate)
    No, it actually has everything to do with the current conversation. You are the third (or fourth) class of person here. We have paid firefighters, we have volunteer firefighters, and we have you - posers.

  11. #171
    MembersZone Subscriber tree68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Jefferson County, NY USA
    Posts
    2,264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    And I am certainly happy you do live there. Far away from here. Anyways, LEO's don't have volunteer stations, with completely volunteer agencies. You are comparing apples to volkswagens.
    My father was one of the founders of the reserve police force in my old hometown. They got a minimal monthly check (like, $10). They worked alongside with, and as equals to, the regular officers. The reserves there still do.

    Every now and then they'd catch some kids with alcohol (most often beer). The kids generally got a scolding and sent on their way. The confiscated beer went into the trunk of the patrol car, to be used for a later (like weekend, not after shift) social gathering.

    I doubt they could get away with that today - kiddo would complain to mom and dad that the cops stole their beer, and mom and dad would complain up the ladder...
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

  12. #172
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,527

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    You are such an idiot. Really. alcohol has NO business in the fire service, with the possible exception of rubbing alcohol.

    None.

    NONE.

    It CAN NOT BE MANAGED with RULES AND POLICIES when it makes the 6pm news.
    Funny thing is that I have yet to see any of the VFDs that have bars in my hometown area make the 6:00 news.

    I'm sure those enforced rules and policies have nothing to do with it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  13. #173
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny thing is that I have yet to see any of the VFDs that have bars in my hometown area make the 6:00 news.

    I'm sure those enforced rules and policies have nothing to do with it.
    Oh, well, thats different. I understand now, as long as it has not yet happened it never will, right?

    Makes perfect LAF sense to me.

  14. #174
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    My father was one of the founders of the reserve police force in my old hometown. They got a minimal monthly check (like, $10). They worked alongside with, and as equals to, the regular officers. The reserves there still do.

    Every now and then they'd catch some kids with alcohol (most often beer). The kids generally got a scolding and sent on their way. The confiscated beer went into the trunk of the patrol car, to be used for a later (like weekend, not after shift) social gathering.

    I doubt they could get away with that today - kiddo would complain to mom and dad that the cops stole their beer, and mom and dad would complain up the ladder...
    Those were the good old days. You could send a kid home knowing that dad was going to beat his arse. Now, not so much.... if ever

  15. #175
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,513

    Default

    [quote=rfd21c;1393431]
    Quote Originally Posted by spfdrum View Post
    i would bet that if you polled, most professional firefighters, they would say their union hall is more akin to an elks lodge or vfw as opposed to a fire house. With the exact same resources available.[/quote

    first off sorry for the long delay in responding to you. 2nd that you for stating my point. An elks lodge is a social gather place. The union hall is home to a professional trade union. Yes it is a place for brotherhood and bonding amgost firefighters. However that is not the main reason that this organization and its assets exist. It is to provide a organized voice for the firefighter to promote fairness and safety in the work place. Maybe just maybe if we stopped looking at the union hall as a social place and a professional organization we would not be put on the chopping blocks and much. If you want a social organization join the emerald society.
    We'll with 450 plus guys on 3 shifts, like it or not, it's going to be very much like a social setting. The other building trade union I was in was very similar. It has a lot to do with the comraderie of a shared experience. The fact that needs to be explained to you makes me wonder if you are even in a union, let alone the IAFF.
    As far as getting any work done, since we are local 21 and organized on day one, I think we are doing a very good job with our voice and role as a union. And have been doing it well for a very long time. Funny fact, the comraderie and socializing at these meetings sure does help getting people out to pound signs or make our voice heard....
    As far as making yourself clear, what arguments are being used to justify drinking in a station? You really believe that Joe Public, if they could find our union hall, and then know it was a fire union meeting, would expect the same level of service if they rang the bell on a volunteer fire house? If that's the case, obtuse comes to mind.
    Last edited by SPFDRum; 12-11-2013 at 06:23 PM.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  16. #176
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,354

    Default

    I remember in my youth we would go party at Philadelphia FOP Lodge#5's Bar/Club and close it down at 0200, and then head over to Philadelphia Local 22 IAFF's hall (after-hours license) and shut that down around 0500 or so...........Their bar/restaurant does quite the lunch business Mon-Fri for the local office lunchtime crowds.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  17. #177
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,513

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I remember in my youth we would go party at Philadelphia FOP Lodge#5's Bar/Club and close it down at 0200, and then head over to Philadelphia Local 22 IAFF's hall (after-hours license) and shut that down around 0500 or so...........Their bar/restaurant does quite the lunch business Mon-Fri for the local office lunchtime crowds.
    You mean to tell me, in a public forum that the patrons and general populace where able to distinguish between a union hall/bar/restaurant and their local fire station? Oh that's just silly talk, I say!!!!!
    PS that was all tongue in cheek for those wondering or those that just don't get it.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  18. #178
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Like I stated above that is my personal opinion on the matter. That is my view just like not seeing a problem with drinking in the union hall is your view. That is the great part of this country we can have opposing views and not agree. At least for the most part besides a select few on here agree with no drinking in the firehouse.But to sit there and question if I am even an iaff member or a firefighter please grow up. To entertain your question yes I am a proud member of local 995. When it comes down to it in the union hall allowing alcohol is like allowing smoking or not in the hall (if state laws allow). Each local and member has an opinion and are free to choose.

  19. #179
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    St Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,513

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    Like I stated above that is my personal opinion on the matter. That is my view just like not seeing a problem with drinking in the union hall is your view. That is the great part of this country we can have opposing views and not agree. At least for the most part besides a select few on here agree with no drinking in the firehouse.But to sit there and question if I am even an iaff member or a firefighter please grow up. To entertain your question yes I am a proud member of local 995. When it comes down to it in the union hall allowing alcohol is like allowing smoking or not in the hall (if state laws allow). Each local and member has an opinion and are free to choose.
    I'm good on the grown up. But to be that clueless on the social and fraternal aspects of a union, especially a firefighting union sure makes me question. Much like the VFW I belong to, maybe 3 generations, but the bond is stronger than time.
    As far a smoking, straw man argument. I'm sure the guy sitting next to having a beer isn't taking a leak on your leg. A little different than second hand smoke. Next.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
    Elevator Rescue Information

  20. #180
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,645

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tree68 View Post
    ....
    I doubt they could get away with that today ...
    Pretty standard operation around here during the summer tourist months. It's taken back to the PD and "destroyed"
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Alcohol & the Fire Service = STUPIDITY
    By FWDbuff in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 11-22-2011, 08:22 AM
  2. Live ammo at fires...
    By KevinFFVFD in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 06-15-2008, 07:52 PM
  3. .45 ammo question....
    By KevinFFVFD in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 02-22-2008, 03:59 PM
  4. SAFER R&R Ammo....
    By BC79er_OLDDELETE in forum Federal FIRE ACT Grants & Funding
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-25-2007, 03:31 PM
  5. Alcohol & The Fire Service
    By ffemt1450 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-27-2003, 12:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts