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Thread: NJ Ticket While Using Blue Lights - Help!

  1. #21
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    Lol guys relax. I know I have too many lights, I know I shouldn't have strobes blah blah blah. As far as needing the blue lights, yes they are needed being that my response route is a heavily traveled single lane back road. You can shoot me a pm and ill give you phone numbers to call and ask as far as my attitude is concerned. I am the one of the NICEST people you will probably ever meet. I would never give any attitude to LEOs as I understand they have a job to do. There are Police Impersonators out there, and I understand, FULLY, the responsibilities they have in keeping their streets safe. With that being said as soon as he verified my information I should of been back on the road to get to that second call.

    There is nothing more to the story, nothing I added, nothing I took out. That is the full and honest truth, I even ended the transaction with "Officer Im sorry we had to have this encounter, and I hope this doesn't leave a sour taste in your mouth in regards to our department."

    I do not feel entitled to anything nor do I feel like I have ANY special privileges other than those assigned to me by the NJ State Blue Light Permit. I have response videos that I will post where you will clearly see I do not break any laws while responding.

    ALL I was asking was does anyone know if the judge will just be like "hey your human it happens, just pay 33 court costs and have a great day." Im not asking to be trolled or to be lectured about how many lights I may or may not have, Im well aware of the 1 in the front and 1 in the rear law. However if you are telling me that your vehicle doesn't violate ANY Your State Laws Vehicle Statutes then I would like to come inspect it for myself and we can go from there.

    FWDbuff THANK YOU, seriously, thank you for your input exactly what I was looking for. So many judgmental people on here...

    As far as probable cause sure he had his probable cause, doesn't mean he had to be an a*s.

    And bones42, relax guy. The blue light permit allows you to respond to that station no matter where you are in the state. POINT BLANK. You can respond from the other side of the state if thats what you please, however its up to your agency and the township in which you volunteer to regulate response distances. In my case it's 3 miles from the border of Sayreville, which I was under(about 2-2.5 Miles). My station happens to be in the middle of town, about 6 miles from where I was.

    On that note you guys have a good night. Not here to argue with anyone, just thought I would seek some feedback on the ONE specific issue I was ASKING about from fellow volunteers, turns out you guys are more judgmental than anyone else...


  2. #22
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    Plea your case

    Let the judge decide

    You need to decide if you want to
    Plea not guilty

    Or guilty with an explanation

    Or if your state has it " no contest" " nolo contendere ". With explanation

  3. #23
    Forum Member RBFunk's Avatar
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    Tarek, You have several problems here. First, as others have pointed out, you have too many blue lights and even after someone takes the time to post the law you get it wrong. Two lights in front, none in the rear. I don't care that others in NJ have more than two lights, that's the law and you are breaking it. Next, while it is true that the Blue Light Permit is statewide, check your squad's and the borough's regulations. Every place I have belonged to limits your privilege to in town. The cop saw lights in a town with no volunteers and knew you weren't from Edison and when he saw your PA plate he knew something was wrong. That's why you got pulled over. I assume you have been in NJ for less than 60 days and that is why you haven't registered your car in NJ. BTW do you have a PA or NJ license? If you have been here more than 60 days, that's two more problems.

    My advice is to get to court early and talk to the prosecutor, not the cop and show that you had a valid license and see if you can get the charge reduced. Don't bring up probable cause cause the cop treated you very nicely. Some people get their car impounded if they can't produce a license. That plus the illegal blue lights and the out of state registration issue means you could have gotten off much worse.

    Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
    Last edited by RBFunk; 12-16-2013 at 10:16 AM. Reason: spelling

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarek.hassan204 View Post
    Now the officer came back and issued me a summons for not having my DL. Is there anyway I can contest it in court seeing that he had no probable cause to pull me over from the beginning?
    A police officer does not have to have probable cause to effect a traffic stop, only reasonable suspicion, which has a lower threshold of suspicion of a crime than probable cause does. There wasn't anything unlawful about his stop - he was trying to understand why you were running L&S through his town when he knew that there wasn't an volunteer outfit in the town. That's enough to make him suspicious. Sure, he might have a lack of tact, but so do a lot of firefighters.

    Furthermore, in the normal course of his lawfully effected traffic stop, he discovered another crime (the lack of possession of a driver's license) and issued a summons for that. Police officers are given discretion on how laws are enforced, which it appears that he did.

    One thing you might do is call the courts and ask if the ticket can be waived if you present proof of your valid license.

    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Do not think talking to the officer will help , plus not a case he needs to be at
    This varies from state-to-state. Ask a LEO in Virginia what happens if he doesn't appear for court for ALL summons issued, traffic and otherwise.
    tarek.hassan204 likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    A police officer does not have to have probable cause to effect a traffic stop, only reasonable suspicion, which has a lower threshold of suspicion of a crime than probable cause does. There wasn't anything unlawful about his stop - he was trying to understand why you were running L&S through his town when he knew that there wasn't an volunteer outfit in the town. That's enough to make him suspicious. Sure, he might have a lack of tact, but so do a lot of firefighters.

    Furthermore, in the normal course of his lawfully effected traffic stop, he discovered another crime (the lack of possession of a driver's license) and issued a summons for that. Police officers are given discretion on how laws are enforced, which it appears that he did.

    One thing you might do is call the courts and ask if the ticket can be waived if you present proof of your valid license.



    This varies from state-to-state. Ask a LEO in Virginia what happens if he doesn't appear for court for ALL summons issued, traffic and otherwise.
    Agree if an officer has been summoned or subpoena they have to show

    But not for every single ticket they write

  6. #26
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Agree if an officer has been summoned or subpoena they have to show

    But not for every single ticket they write
    Perhaps not in Pennsylvania, but in Virginia, the officer DOES have to appear in court for each summons [ticket] that is issued. Court dates are assigned to the officers ahead of time, so the officer will know ahead of time what time/date to write on the summons and will also know which days he has to appear in court.

    Should the violators pre-pay the fine, or don't show for their case (in which case they're found guilt in abstentia), then the officer's appearance in court is very short. However, usually about half of the violators will appear to contest the summons, which is why the officer is required to appear in court - to refute or substantiate the claims of the defendant.

    So in closing, yes, in our Commonwealth they do appear in court for each summons issued - which is usually 2-4 times per month.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Perhaps not in Pennsylvania, but in Virginia, the officer DOES have to appear in court for each summons [ticket] that is issued. Court dates are assigned to the officers ahead of time, so the officer will know ahead of time what time/date to write on the summons and will also know which days he has to appear in court.

    Should the violators pre-pay the fine, or don't show for their case (in which case they're found guilt in abstentia), then the officer's appearance in court is very short. However, usually about half of the violators will appear to contest the summons, which is why the officer is required to appear in court - to refute or substantiate the claims of the defendant.

    So in closing, yes, in our Commonwealth they do appear in court for each summons issued - which is usually 2-4 times per month.
    That is a lot of cop time

  8. #28
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    That is a lot of cop time
    Yes, generally 2-4 hours per court date, generally 1-3 times per month (not including non-traffic cases), it does add up - especially if your court dates fall on your days off.

    One of the many reasons I went to school for law enforcement but wised up and became a firefighter instead.

    OK, enough about Virginia court cases, back to the original discussion...
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  9. #29
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    tarek: you have a severe case of whackeritus even by NJ standards. You have more lights than allowable by state law and might even be more than most cruisers.

    Second: you were responding from a neighboring town with no jollie vollies with delusions of granduer.

    third: you were in the wrong

    fourth : Pay the fine and sell the excess light to cover the costs.

    fifth: don't expect everyone to be impressed with all you jollie volly lights.
    Especially law enforcement.Be glad it wasn't a state trooper, you might have spent the night in lock up.
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  10. #30
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    I don't expect anyone to be impressed with anything. I made my car that way because I like it that way. Is anything hanging from your mirrors? Well that my friend is against the law, remove whatever it is and sell it to pay for court costs incase you get a ticket in the future. I don't tell you what to do with your vehicle, don't tell me what to do with mine. Never said I wasn't wrong, I was asking if anyone has gotten out of a dl ticket, thats it. My only point in mentioning the lights was to put in there that I thought the officer should of had some professional courtesy.

  11. #31
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    Let me start by saying I don't really care what you think in regards to the amount of lights in my car. I see it fit, and my local LEO's don't have a problem with it. I have checked my squad and borough regulations, per my squad there is no response distance limitation and per my borough the response area is limited to 3 miles from any point of sayrevilles borders, which I was within. I haven't registered my vehicle in NJ because my vehicle is financed through a PA Credit Union, when I used to live in pennsylvania. That credit union doesn't have a NJ Corp Code with the NJ DMV and therefor cannot register a lien with them. As a result, I will have to have PA tags until the vehicle is paid off. I have a NJ license. Sorry if I'm a little snippy, but I'm not here to be lectured about the amount of lights I have. I understand the consequences of my actions and am responsible enough to handle the repercussions. Just like I could easily pay the $190 without selling any of my lights, I just don't want to pay the fine for going to grab some food after being on crew for 12 hours and accidentally forgetting my wallet in my rig.

  12. #32
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    My take on all of this is
    1. The cop is a giant ******bag.
    2. Cops here can run your SS# and see if you have a valid licence. Or they issue a citation that allows you to present your license within X amount of days and the citation is dropped. I don't understand why they can't do that in NJ.
    3. What's with the restrictions on lights?? We put them all over our rigs for a reason, so we can be seen. Why do they want just enough warning lights to get you into trouble?
    4. NJ is a jacked up state.

  13. #33
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    You keep missing the point. The officer showed you a great deal of courtesy. He didn't have to call Sayreville to check out your story but he did. He didn't have to let you drive off without your drivers license instead of impounding your car since there was no licensed driver to operate your vehicle but he did. He could have written you up for the blatantly illegal blue light set up or called Sayreville PD and have them yank your permit but he didn't.
    But to answer your question again, go to court early on your trial date with all your paperwork including your valid NJ drivers license, registration, proof of insurance and blue light permit. Meet with the prosecutor and ask if there is anything he can do. At this point it is out of the officers' hands and up to the prosecutor. If you can't get a break there, I don't think the judge is going to cut you any slack but you can try "Guilty with an explanation" defense. Some judges won't hear it but you might as well go down swinging at that point.
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  14. #34
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    Other suggestion is to call the walk up pay window or or go in person to the window, the next few days

    Ask the question if I show I had a valid license do I get a break on the fine

  15. #35
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    No young whacker: I don't have anything hanging off my mirror, I don't have hundreds/thousands of dollars in special whacker lighting on my vehicle and no I don't need to have them to respond.

    Get over yourself. You are a member of FAS in NJ.

    Last time i was in NJ to pick up a new ambulance at the factory, we were standing outside the Hilton Inn where we spent the night and enjoying our morning coffee when a beat up 20 year old toyota supra came screaming by with more lights & strobes than our new ambulance.
    While talking to the front desk manager he replied that that guy was the head chief of the local FAS and had been ticketed more times than carter has liver pills , yet he still insisted on driving like an arse and lighting up the world like he was important.

    You should check with the state motor vehicle office as usually they require you to register a vehicle in state within a few months of living there. They don't care where you have a loan, they want their tax money.

    Since we now know what squad you ride with it will be easy to drop a dime to the revenuers from NJ.

  16. #36
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    I see many problems with the original poster.

    1) Don't come asking advice and then get snotty when people don't give you what you want to hear.
    2) Don't further damage relations between police and fire by violating the laws of the community you are in and then expecting a courtesy release.
    3) Don't expect any kind of break when you freely admit on an international forum that your light set-up vioates state law for having too many lights.
    4) Grow up and accept responsibility and the consequences for you actions.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I see many problems with the original poster.

    1) Don't come asking advice and then get snotty when people don't give you what you want to hear.
    2) Don't further damage relations between police and fire by violating the laws of the community you are in and then expecting a courtesy release.
    3) Don't expect any kind of break when you freely admit on an international forum that your light set-up vioates state law for having too many lights.
    4) Grow up and accept responsibility and the consequences for you actions.
    What he said.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    No young whacker: I don't have anything hanging off my mirror, I don't have hundreds/thousands of dollars in special whacker lighting on my vehicle and no I don't need to have them to respond.

    Get over yourself. You are a member of FAS in NJ.

    Last time i was in NJ to pick up a new ambulance at the factory, we were standing outside the Hilton Inn where we spent the night and enjoying our morning coffee when a beat up 20 year old toyota supra came screaming by with more lights & strobes than our new ambulance.
    While talking to the front desk manager he replied that that guy was the head chief of the local FAS and had been ticketed more times than carter has liver pills , yet he still insisted on driving like an arse and lighting up the world like he was important.

    You should check with the state motor vehicle office as usually they require you to register a vehicle in state within a few months of living there. They don't care where you have a loan, they want their tax money.

    Since we now know what squad you ride with it will be easy to drop a dime to the revenuers from NJ.
    I could even give you their local phone number if you would like? Ive been ticketed for it twice and bith times won it in court. Believe me id rather NJ plates and reg phuladelphia tax is 16 percent jersey is 7 so please if you would like to help me figure it out give me a call.

    Lets not all forget thay were on the same side, so with that being said ill take all of your advise "woth a grain of salt", and move on.

    Thank you to everyone to helped me out.

    Tarek

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    Are you kin to

    devinZ71?

  20. #40
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    It's people like you that make life difficult for the rest of us. You believe that you are above the law and are entitled to special privileges. You don't realize that the rest of us are judged by your actions too.

    I am going to change my advice to you. Before you go to court, take all your personal belongings out of your car. Because when the prosecutor see's that PA registration he isn't going to buy that **** and bull story about the credit union. Then you are going to have to explain why you are two towns outside of Sayreville to get food for your crew. I know there are plenty of places for food in Sayerville so there is no need for you to drive thru Perth Amboy or East Brunswick to get to Edison. Then you are going to have to tell the judge the legal precedent that allows you to ignore the law that says TWO lights not eight. Then you better just plead guilty to operating your car without your license. The reason I said that you should clean out your car is because the prosecutor is going to ask that your car be impounded until you get your paperwork straightened out so you might want to have a friend available to drive you to DMV to get that done. Oh that's after you pay your fines. Bring lots of cash or a credit card, they won't take a check. BTW if the prosecutor is the Joe Lombardi I think it is, this is pretty much a sure thing. He was a tight *** in high school and I bet age has not mellowed him.

    In closing I just want to say that I have one blue light in my POV and nothing hanging from the mirror. If you were on my squad you would be suspended for 60 days and not allowed to respond to calls until you fixed your lights and got your car registration in order. The liability you are opening your squad to is enormous. If something was to happen while you were responding to a call and the other driver said that your lights distracted them, your insurance company would drop you in a second and your town and squad would be on the hook for allowing you to disregard the law.
    islandfire03 likes this.
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