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Thread: NJ Ticket While Using Blue Lights - Help!

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    Default NJ Ticket While Using Blue Lights - Help!

    Hey Guys, needed some help maybe from a LEO maybe from anyone who has valuable input. I was in Edison NJ getting food for my crew, while I was on crew. I knew that were 3 other people at the building and if a call came out (Sayreville) it would be answered. So, while getting our food tones dropped for a chest pain and a rig called in service. About 3 minutes later, I was in my car omw back to the building at this point) tones dropped for another chest pain. I called into our response number, indicating my response, activated my blue lights and started my response (about 7-10 minutes). I was following all laws, was not speeding, did not take any red lights NOTHING. All of a sudden, as I was looking in my rear view I saw flashing red and blue lights speeding up behind me siren blaring. I moved out the way assuming he was going to a call. He wasn't, he pulled me over. The officer got out asked me what the F*ck I was doing. I informed him what I was doing and handed him all of my paperwork minus my DL, which was in my wallet in my duty rig. He said the only reason I pulled you over is because Edison no longer has a Volly squad so your a little suspect. By this time they have now issued a second set of tones and toned out our sister squad. The officer contact Sayreville PD dispatch where they informed him there was a call and it wasn't be just BS'ing. The NJ Blue Light Permit is a STATEWIDE permit. Now the officer came back and issued me a summons for not having my DL. Is there anyway I can contest it in court seeing that he had no probable cause to pull me over from the beginning? Its a 190$ ticket in jersey. You would think that the relationship between LEOs and Vollys from neighboring towns would be a little better than this being that if Sh*t hits the fan were the ones providing mutual aid. Any help would be awesome, and any way that i would be able to contest the ticket would be even better.

    This is my cars lights. Strobes get a little blurry because they're too bright and flash too fast for the camera. I have 8 strobes, 4 in the front headlights, 4 in the rear, and no cop ever gives me s**t about those, but they give me sh*t about not having my DL with me, when I explained exactly why it wasn't with me...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap_SMUNxmU4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaQnDpWCj6E
    Last edited by tarek.hassan204; 12-15-2013 at 08:51 AM.


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    Go before the judge
    Take as much documentation as possible
    Run report
    Blue light law
    Where you were at , where you were going

    Explain that originally you were pulled over for blue light law

    Explain why you did not have dl, but you had a valid one

    Hopefully judge will let you off or at the least very very reduced fine

    Where was your dl???

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    It was in my duty rig, along with all of my cards. I do that so I don't drop them on a scene forget them anywhere etc. Ironic, because I ended up forgetting my wallet in the rig. Just don't get why a cop would be suck an a-hole.

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Blue light permits are not statewide. They are signed by the executive officer (usually Mayor) of the town they are applied for. They have zero value outside of that town.


    Your Mayor can't give you permission to use a blue light in any town other than his.

    Pay your fine and move on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Blue light permits are not statewide. They are signed by the executive officer (usually Mayor) of the town they are applied for. They have zero value outside of that town.


    Your Mayor can't give you permission to use a blue light in any town other than his.

    Pay your fine and move on.
    Bones42, that is actually incorrect. I have spoken, at length, with police officers, DMV employees, and officers of local volly squads. It is a statewide permit that may only be used to respond to a specific agency in that specific town. It is up to your agency to dictate your response area and what not.

    As far as the fine goes, I am fine with paying a fine, but when they need my squads help, should I then tell them to "eat **** and move on"

    There is something called professional courtesy. Not only did I present him with my documents, I also handed him a SOA Card from a close friend. Funny thing is, that cop lives in sayreville and I've responded to his house for his wife before...

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    You were driving without a license in hand

    That is what the ticket is for

    Go before the judge

    I my city if you do not have proof of insurance with you but can show you have valid insurance the ticket is reduced to $ 10 .

    Maybe he does not like firefighters? Trust me been there the badge does not always help

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    You were technically in the wrong. Should have wallet with you. Having said that, IMO, the cop was a dick about it. I would explain everything to the judge and hope for the best. Just don't try to tell him you're not guilty because you are. Maybe a reduced fine/less points can be worked out. Or you get lucky, the cop comes to his senses and doesn't show up in court.

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    I just looked at the video link. I think I now see why you were pulled over. That looks to me like a ridiculous amount of blue lights. I've spent my whole life in areas protected by volunteer departments and I' don't remeber ever seeing such a setup.
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    Like others have said go before the judge and see what happens. I know here if the tones drop i can legally drive without my license to the station and home. But if pulled over at any other time without it is the same fine as it is for everyone else

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I just looked at the video link. I think I now see why you were pulled over. That looks to me like a ridiculous amount of blue lights. I've spent my whole life in areas protected by volunteer departments and I' don't remeber ever seeing such a setup.
    Hahah, Its not nearly as much as it seems like. Its 1 visor light bar 1 dash light grill lights. 2 LP lights and 2 Deck lights. Strobes I don't normally use I have a kill switch for them, but where Im from this setup is LIGHT (No pun intended) I don't ever use my siren I just have it..

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    And believe me I know I was in the wrong for not having my license, I just thought that there would be a little bit of courtesy there. Oh well, might just buck up and pay the $190 fine. Courts next week, well see how it goes.

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    If things in Jersey work the same as in Pa:

    1. Approach the officer before court, ask to converse with him in one of the private conference rooms. See if there is any way you can strike a plea bargain with him, if there are any other charges he can lower the fine down to if you agree to plead guilty. Assuming you have a clean driving record (you DO have a clean record, dont you?) tell him that you have never been charged with any moving or non-moving violations before, you were acting in good character by responding to an emergency as a member of a recognized emergency agency while out of quarters running an errand. Advise him you are human, and left your wallet in the ambulance per normal procedure. If he advises no he cannot lower the charges or acts like a penis, thank him and await the hearing.

    At the hearing, begin by apologizing to the Judge for taking his time and the time of the Court; that this is a combination of a misunderstanding and an honest momentary lapse in your judgement. Advise the judge you are a member in good standing of the Squad, and were on duty, out of quarters running an errand and responding to an emergency; that you are a good person, with no criminal record nor any moving or non-moving violations on your record. Advise the Judge that you were pulled over by the officer and were questioned as to your intent (the response), the Officer's statement as to "they dont have any Volunteer Companies any more", and that the officer appears to not know the administrative make-up of the response agencies in his jurisdiction. Request that the charges be dropped due to the fact that because of this, he had no probable cause to enact a stop. If the judge does not agree, go for the human "hey I forgot, it was in the rig", I am human, I have no criminal record or any moving/non moving violations of any kind. I tried to negotiate a plea bargain prior to entering the court room however the officer is unwilling to negotiate, and I respectfully request your mercy your honor by judging for a lesser violation."

    You have nothing to lose by taking this approach.

    This is assuming, of course....That you have given us the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Call me silly, but my instinct is telling me that there is more to this story than you have let on to.

    A few tips for you:
    1. Memorize your OLN. You would be surprised how officers appreciate it if you have it memorized but not on you. I Have mine memorized, often forget my wallet in the summertime when I am wearing shorts, and have been pulled over. Have not gotten a citation yet.

    2. Dump some, if not all of the blue lights. You dont need them, they are worthless, you dont need them, they are worthless, and invite trouble. This occurrence should be testament to that. If you didn't have them, we probably wouldn't even be here right now.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Do not think talking to the officer will help , plus not a case he needs to be at

    Tell it to judge judy

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Do not think talking to the officer will help , plus not a case he needs to be at

    Tell it to judge judy
    Just curious, why wouldn't the officer have to be there? If this is indeed the case, if I were the Defendant and wanted to use the "no probable cause" defense I would request all charges be dropped due to the officer being unable to prove probable cause here and now. If the Judge does not go for it, request a continuance and a new date with the Officer's presence.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Just curious, why wouldn't the officer have to be there? If this is indeed the case, if I were the Defendant and wanted to use the "no probable cause" defense I would request all charges be dropped due to the officer being unable to prove probable cause here and now. If the Judge does not go for it, request a continuance and a new date with the Officer's presence.
    This would be my take as well. If it means the officer will have to be paid OT, come in on a day off, etc, you may well find the charge dropped.

    As for why you were pulled over in the first place - we have no idea what kind of experience the officer has had with blue lighters. Could be he's like SC and has never seen a volunteer he liked, or maybe the Edison folks were a PITA at the end of the volunteer era there. Around here we'll usually get a smidgen of "professional courtesy" and maybe a little fudge factor on certain traffic laws. Since fire and LE dispatch are in the same room, it doesn't take long to figure out there's something going on somewhere. In fact, it's very common to hear a patrol ask what's up in a given area if they hear the fire siren or see some POVs with lights on the move.

    As has been noted - present the facts and ask for mercy. The cop was in the right, but the judge may give you a break.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    Not sure how it works in other states

    Simple traffic ticket here
    Either pay or see the judge

    If you see the judge you plead guilty with explanation

    Or not guilty and have another hearing date set and that is when the officer shows up

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Not sure how it works in other states

    Simple traffic ticket here
    Either pay or see the judge

    If you see the judge you plead guilty with explanation

    Or not guilty and have another hearing date set and that is when the officer shows up
    In Pa you sign the ticket on site acknowledging the citation. You are then sent a notice to appear by the Magistrate with a plea sheet- guilty, pay the fine and no appearance- or plead not guilty, take the date they assign you and pay collateral in the amount of the fine. If you are found not guilty you receive a full refund. If you dont show, you could be found guilty and they keep your money AND/OR have a bench warrant dropped on you, depending on the mood of the judge.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarek.hassan204 View Post
    Hahah, Its not nearly as much as it seems like. Its 1 visor light bar 1 dash light grill lights. 2 LP lights and 2 Deck lights. Strobes I don't normally use I have a kill switch for them, but where Im from this setup is LIGHT (No pun intended) I don't ever use my siren I just have it..
    You may want to research what amount of blue lights is allowed by NJ State Law as well on your POV. Yes, there is such a thing in the NJ State law books.

    Just a hint....you are over it.


    PS - "may only be used to respond to a specific agency in that specific town" - and you weren't in that town.

    PSS - now that the cop has seen this posted on a public forum (cuz we can bet he has friends that have told him) good luck talking to him ahead of time.
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    I fail to see why you think he had no probable cause. He saw you driving with a blue light, and had no way to verify if you were legal or not, they do not use volunteers in his town, so he pulled you over to verify.

    Then he found out that you had no DL with you, when it is clearly a violation.

    You showed your "courtesy" card. That alone may have peed him off, this so called "courtesty" thing is rapidly going away, even more so when it is viewed as an entitlement by the violater.

    He may have let you go until you acted like you were entitled to a break.

    So, not sure how it is in NJ, but in most states you can go to court, ask to talk to the prosecutor, and he will cut you a break - depending on your attitude. ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING.

    Your post here, and your videos, SCREAM out I AM SPECIAL.

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    http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/pdf/About/BLC-54.pdf







    39:3-54.7. Member of a volunteer fire company or first aid or rescue squad: emergency
    warning lights on motor vehicle

    An active member in good standing of a volunteer fire company or a volunteer first aid or rescue
    squad recognized by and rendering service in any municipality may display on a motor vehicle
    owned by him or by a member of his household an emergency warning light or lights as provided
    in this act.

    39:3-54.9. Specifications

    Emergency warning lights shall be temporarily attached, removable lights of the flashing or
    revolving type not more than 7.5 inches in diameter, equipped with a blue lens and a lamp of not
    more than 51 candlepower and shall be controlled by a switch installed inside the vehicle.

    39:3-54.10. Placement on motor vehicle

    No more than two emergency warning lights shall be installed on a vehicle. If one light is used it
    shall be installed in the center of the roof of the car, or on the left windshield column in a position
    where a spotlight is normally located, or on the front of the vehicle so that the top of the warning
    light is no higher than the top of the vehicle's headlights. If two lights are used they may be
    placed on the windshield columns on each side of the vehicle where spotlights are normally
    located, or on either side of the roof at the front of the vehicle directly back of the top of the
    windshield. Under no circumstances may one light be placed on the roof and one on the
    windshield column in the spotlight position.

    Taken from : http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions...n/booklet5.pdf posted above.

    The above law explains what may be used. Anything else would be a violation. I disagree with the statement - "if something is not identified as being illegal - then it is legal."

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