Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 72
Like Tree29Likes

Thread: New Pierce model?

  1. #21
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Dude, get over yourself. My comment was more about reliability than creature comforts. There are Mack CFs that were built in the early 70's still in service some having been refurbed a couple of times. How much you want to bet that the odds of many of these computer operated, electronic nightmares, will be running, let alone in service in 40 years?

    Is air conditioning and heat nice? Of course it is, but generations of firefighters before us fought fire without them. Are seat belts and better constructed custom cabs better for safety? Of course they are, but until they ban commercial chassis with add on "phone booth" passenger and pump operator compartments don't pat yourself on the back too hard about roll over safety. Screaming engines and sirens, yeah well, long before we had insulated cabs and relocated sirens we had ear muffs. God life was tough in those days. Good thing you didn't have to suffer the misery of it.

    As for me I loved those old rigs that you didn't need a laptop computer and an electronic engineering degree to fix. A good chunk of the time if something went wrong an inhouse mechanic could fix it, and if not, the mechanic at the apparatus repair center didn't sit their for 3 days chasing electrical shorts and BS trying to find where some wire got crossed or what computer went nuts.

    I agree with Bones...You're soft, we get it.
    "It is sad to think today that untrained firefighters is the reason not to embrace new ideas in frefighting though. " (You said that remember?)

    So let's use the most advanced firefighting techiques with antique fire engines...
    Hypocritical much?


  2. #22
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Your soft. We get it.
    Uh, sorry, my job is protect lives and save property, not unecessarily sacrifice my health to ride on a "cool" firetruck.

  3. #23
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    I just wanted to know if the coolaid drinkers had any information on if Pierce, will be replacing the "SABER" chassis with a new amazing product that is more like the rest of the Pierce line up ?

  4. #24
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    "It is sad to think today that untrained firefighters is the reason not to embrace new ideas in frefighting though. " (You said that remember?)

    So let's use the most advanced firefighting techiques with antique fire engines...
    Hypocritical much?
    Golly, I guess you haven't ever seen a 4 door enclosed cab Mack CF engine. Further. I guess you have never seen a refurbished Mack CF engine. Some have heat, and A/C relocated sirens and airhorns. In fact MY personally owned CF has the Federal Q on the front bumper extension.

    What's antique about it? The fact that it doesn't have 15, 000 miles of multi-plexing wiring and computers? That it doesn't have apressure governor? Guess what? I was at Pierce last year and there were at least a dozen engines on the line getting built with pressure relief valves and vernier throttles (yes I know the throttle is electronic). The point is they were not being built with pressure governors. Golly are those guys having antique trucks being built new? My 1974 mack Cf can supply 1250 GPM, whether through multiple handlines or a mounted deluge gun. It has scba seats and it has high side compartments. Holy cow! That doesn't sound awhole lot different than many of today's fancy NEW MODERN rigs.

    Go back and ride your commercial cab rig that will crush like a pancake when it rolls over, especially if it has one of those monster phone booth cab extensions on it, and remind again about how safety conscious you are. There isn't a single commercial chasis that would survive as well or any better than my Mack in a roll over.

    You really need to relax...
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  5. #25
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Uh, sorry, my job is protect lives and save property, not unecessarily sacrifice my health to ride on a "cool" firetruck.
    Would you like a hanky to dry those tears? Or perhaps some BenGay and a sling for that arm you are so vigorously patting yourself on the back with.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  6. #26
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Uh, sorry, my job is protect lives and save property, not unecessarily sacrifice my health to ride on a "cool" firetruck.
    Yeah and while you are standing out front with your limp c*ck in your hand because you can't get your 2014 Pierce (or any other 2014 Manufactured truck for that matter) into pump gear due to any of a number of electronic failures, I'll pull up with my 1974 CF Mack, F-Model Maxim, Century Series ALF, HCP Hahn, etc etc etc etc and engage the pump mechanically, open the manually actuated tank to pump valve as the boys are stretching the line to the front door, open the manually actuated discharge valve, turn the manually actuated vernier throttle and give them pressure. Oh, and if something goes wrong, I can get under the truck and more than likely do a quick fix on the scene with a set of pliers, screwdrivers and box end wrenches.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  7. #27
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo Kilo View Post
    Attachment 23357

    Slight correction to Woodbridge's post, this was not a CF chassis. It was a conventional cab chassis so the doghouse was huge. I've got a copy of the brochure they made up on my desk. I can post it on Monday if anyone's interested. Not sure this is the best thread for it though...
    Chiefengineer 11 and I have some fantastic insider information regarding this rig as our house was seriously considering it for purchase. It was originally an MH Mack Chassis with an E7 Mack engine, a first-generation 10 speed Eaton Autoshift transmission....However due to several issues, the company that did end up buying it (the guys that painted it green) had it converted to an Allison Automatic. This project was not endorsed, sanctioned or approved by Mack and I understand that Sutphen heard quite a bit of backlash from Mack's Legal Department over it. More on the mechanics of this thing later unless Chiefengineer 11 chimes in.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  8. #28
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,659

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Uh, sorry, my job is protect lives and save property, not unecessarily sacrifice my health to ride on a "cool" firetruck.
    Yup, cuz gosh knows we only fight fires in nice weather. We are only exposed to the bad weather during the 10 minute ride.
    FyredUp likes this.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  9. #29
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,581

    Default

    I remember being in the rear open jump seat area of our old Mack CF with only a lap belt and scba holder to keep us in place, the Mack diesel screaming and huddling up to the engine compartment cover trying to stay warm on those cold bitter nights, having only two gauges on the pump panel to measure intake and discharge pressures, having to set the Waterous pressure relief valve manually... That truck served delivered to us in 1972 and could take a beating... literally. We had responded to a reported struture fire in a blizzard and the truck slid on ice and hit a granite monument.The Chauffeur just backed up and drove to the fire. When we returned to quarters, one of the guys put a portapower to the dented area and pushed the dent out. We then responded to our 2nd working fire that night...

    See if one can do that with today's rigs...

    Good times....
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 03-07-2014 at 03:12 PM. Reason: spelling correction
    Chenzo likes this.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  10. #30
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I remember being in the rear open jump seat area of our old Mack CF with only a lap belt and scba holder to keep us in place, the Mack diesel screaming and huddling up to the engine compartment cover trying to stay warm on those cold bitter nights, having only two gauges on the pump panel to measure intake and discharge pressures, having to set the Waterous pressure relief valve manually... That truck served delivered to us in 1972 and could take a beating... literally. We had responded to a reported struture fire in a blizzard and the truck slid on ice and hit a granite monument.The Chauffeur just backed up and drove to the fire. When we returned to quarters, one of the guys put a portapwer tot he dented area and pushed the dent out. We then responded to our 2nd working fire that night...
    See if one can do that with toaday's rigs...

    Good times....
    Heck how many of these computer whiz bang trucks won't start for no apparent reason, the transmission won't shift on occasion, they power down, they won't go into pump, or out of pump, aerials get error messages so you can't raise or rotate the ladder, lights stop working and then work again, and so much more. Don't get me wrong, I love the creature comforts, but if the rig won't get me to the call, work when it is there, and then get me back to quarters, what good is it really?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  11. #31
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,581

    Default

    A lousy $5 electrical connector crapped out on a friend's rig as he and his crew just opened up their attack line on a fire in a SFD. The truck shut down. Luckily, they had another crew from another Engine company behind them with their own line and they put out the fire.

    The rig had to be towed to the shops, the repair took all of 15 minutes.. most of which was removing the stuff from the cab to tilt it and return it afterwards.
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 03-07-2014 at 04:09 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  12. #32
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Chiefengineer 11 and I have some fantastic insider information regarding this rig as our house was seriously considering it for purchase. It was originally an MH Mack Chassis with an E7 Mack engine, a first-generation 10 speed Eaton Autoshift transmission....However due to several issues, the company that did end up buying it (the guys that painted it green) had it converted to an Allison Automatic. This project was not endorsed, sanctioned or approved by Mack and I understand that Sutphen heard quite a bit of backlash from Mack's Legal Department over it. More on the mechanics of this thing later unless Chiefengineer 11 chimes in.
    Well, I've kind of avoided telling this story for a few reasons. I hope enough time has elapsed that it doesn't get me in trouble. We did have that engine in our station for several days to try out. It was a truly nice piece and it had a lot going for it. For you Mack afficianados, it actually began life as a
    CH (conventional). Sutphen removed the CH cab and reworked things to accept their fire truck cab. More on that later. As Buff said, it had an E7 Mack engine, 427 HP. And it would fly! And as he said, it had an Eaton/Fuller Roadranger 10-speed autoshift transmission which had a clutch pedal but you only used that for starting out, stopping or going into reverse. The fact that it even had a clutch did present issues with a few members.

    One thing about this transmission - it was overdrive in 10th gear and 9th was direct drive. On one of the days it was here, Buff took the salesman (a Cincinnati F.D. Lieutenant) buffing in Philadelphia. While they were gone, I decided to put some water in the tank and circulate it just to see how it felt. I should note that this truck had a Waterous CSU pump (single stage) while everything we have is two stage. So I first pumped it with the transmission in 9th (direct) and it seemed OK except that it took what I thought was an awful lot of engine RPM to do what I was doing. So I tried putting it in 10th gear (overdrive) and it did bring the RPM down to what I thought would be an acceptable level. But I know, as most competent pump operators know, that you always pump in direct gear whatever that is. I thought about where to get a definitive answer to what would be right. So I made a call to the Roadranger help line to see if they had any opinion on it. My call got transferred a couple of times because the first people I talked to either didn't understand what I was doing or didn't have an answer. Finally I got someone who did understand what I was talking about. His reply was, "You can't do that, it's impossible to do." He went on to explain that the way the software that controls the transmission is programmed it will not allow you to begin any higher than third gear. I said that I can put this into any gear I want to. He came back and said, "No you can't." I said maybe I can't but since I don't know any better, I'm doing it (remember, bumblebees can't fly, but since they don't know any better, they fly anyway).

    Anyway, I got transferred up the line a few more levels with the same response, including from the project engineer who led the team that created the controls for the transmission. Finally, he admitted that if some really sharp programmer was able to decipher their (Fuller's) logic, they might be able to create a work-around and make it do what we were doing. But that engineer was very emphatic that since no one in Eaton/Fuller had any idea of what was done and certainly didn't approve it, they couldn't and absolutely would not tstand behind it (meaning no warranty on the the transmission). So that pretty much put the kibosh on buying the truck.

    Like I said, it was a nice truck. Those of you who have seen it (it was at Harrisburg at least once, maybe twice) or its pictures will recognize it as a Sutphen with all of their nice workmanship.

    Now this is the "later" that I mentioned earlier. There was another catch. The cab was fixed in place - it couldn't be raised. There were service flaps for doing maintenance or repairs. I opened them to see what would be involved in doing routine stuff. I found the fuel filters, but no matter what I envisioned, I never figured out how I would change them.

    I think if we had been able to resolve those issues, that piece would still be red and it would live in our station now. I know that Sutphen eventually put an Allison transmission in it. I hope that the folks in Heidlersburg, Adams County who have it have figured out how to service it and that it does a good job for them
    Last edited by chiefengineer11; 03-07-2014 at 10:49 PM. Reason: additional info and clarifications

  13. #33
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,555

    Default

    great bit of history on that one of mack .
    Sam.

  14. #34
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Thanks for posting that, ChiefEngineer. That was one of them more interesting trucks to come through the factory before my time and there was hardly any documentation. Mind if I copy some for my records?

  15. #35
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilo Kilo View Post
    Thanks for posting that, ChiefEngineer. That was one of them more interesting trucks to come through the factory before my time and there was hardly any documentation. Mind if I copy some for my records?
    Not a problem. Understand though, that's all taken from memory and is about 10 years old. I don't know if Buff wants to add anything to it or give his own version. He was also quite involved with it. I'm sorry we weren't able to buy it, even though it was a true one-off. I really liked it. But there were just too many factors that made us uncomfortable. I hope they were addressed to Heidlersburg's satisfaction. I hope someone from there will contribute to this discussion. Do you work at East?

  16. #36
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    Any fire departments that own a newer Pierce apparatus, can you tell me what the words " SLT " mean on some of the Pierce Mfg stock/demo trucks on there web site ? Someone told me that it is a apparatus that is built down in Florida !

  17. #37
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    3,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Any fire departments that own a newer Pierce apparatus, can you tell me what the words " SLT " mean on some of the Pierce Mfg stock/demo trucks on there web site ? Someone told me that it is a apparatus that is built down in Florida !
    Correct, formerly known as the Contender rigs.
    Career Fire Captain
    Volunteer Chief Officer


    Never taking for granted that I'm privileged enough to have the greatest job in the world!

  18. #38
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    Do you work at East?
    Yes, I'm one of the engineers.

  19. #39
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,111

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Golly, I guess you haven't ever seen a 4 door enclosed cab Mack CF engine. Further. I guess you have never seen a refurbished Mack CF engine. Some have heat, and A/C relocated sirens and airhorns. In fact MY personally owned CF has the Federal Q on the front bumper extension.

    What's antique about it? The fact that it doesn't have 15, 000 miles of multi-plexing wiring and computers? That it doesn't have apressure governor? Guess what? I was at Pierce last year and there were at least a dozen engines on the line getting built with pressure relief valves and vernier throttles (yes I know the throttle is electronic). The point is they were not being built with pressure governors. Golly are those guys having antique trucks being built new? My 1974 mack Cf can supply 1250 GPM, whether through multiple handlines or a mounted deluge gun. It has scba seats and it has high side compartments. Holy cow! That doesn't sound awhole lot different than many of today's fancy NEW MODERN rigs.

    Go back and ride your commercial cab rig that will crush like a pancake when it rolls over, especially if it has one of those monster phone booth cab extensions on it, and remind again about how safety conscious you are. There isn't a single commercial chasis that would survive as well or any better than my Mack in a roll over.

    You really need to relax...
    Uh, you might want to check your FACTS. Those commercial cab trucks you speak of were bought way back in '99. We got rid of ours after only 3 years. We bought nothing but custome cabs after that.
    And BTW, a rebuilt Mack with a fully enclosed cab that has modern safety features is NOT the same as an old open cab one. And even then, it's unlikely to have anti-lock brakes.

  20. #40
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    9,866

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Uh, you might want to check your FACTS. Those commercial cab trucks you speak of were bought way back in '99. We got rid of ours after only 3 years. We bought nothing but custome cabs after that.
    And BTW, a rebuilt Mack with a fully enclosed cab that has modern safety features is NOT the same as an old open cab one. And even then, it's unlikely to have anti-lock brakes.
    What's next? No back up camera? No GPS? No MDT? No self dimming mirrors? No power mirrors? OH CRAP!! IT DOESN"T HAVE ANY LED WARNING LIGHTS!!! HORRORS!!

    Geezus, I get that you love the new rigs. HOORAY FOR YOU! Now get over yourself. Because my Mack will still be running and pumping long after the multiplexing nightmares are sitting in scrap yards.
    FWDbuff and Woodbridge like this.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pierce (Appleton) vs Pierce (Bradenton / Contender)
    By gefd901 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 07-03-2009, 12:04 PM
  2. This guy is a role model for all...
    By DennisTheMenace in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-09-2006, 01:47 PM
  3. Create a model of your self
    By RyanEMVFD in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 06-22-2005, 06:18 PM
  4. City Model?
    By ADMIN665 in forum Emergency Services Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-01-2004, 09:06 PM
  5. Role Model
    By ltdanfireman in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-22-2002, 03:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts