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Thread: New Pierce model?

  1. #41
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    About ten years ago we had a Mack CF 1250 gpm engine with a Waterous pump fight a fire at a Shell oil refinery after lighting hit a storage tank at there tank farm. Our Mack CF pumped for two & a half days straight without shutting down, there were other newer pumpers being towed away from the fire scene braking down with all of the electronics, you can not beat a old mack with manual controls !!
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  2. #42
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    About ten years ago we had a Mack CF 1250 gpm engine with a Waterous pump fight a fire at a Shell oil refinery after lighting hit a storage tank at there tank farm. Our Mack CF pumped for two & a half days straight without shutting down, there were other newer pumpers being towed away from the fire scene braking down with all of the electronics, you can not beat a old mack with manual controls !!
    Amen Brother.

    I can appreciate riding in a fully enclosed cab with heat and A/C, and all the gadgets we have come to expect. But I am a realist and time will tell how many, if any, of these technological wonders will survive the test of time. On the other hand I love the Mack CF engines and mine is 40 years old this year and still is fully operational
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  3. #43
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Alright here's my penny worth of thoughts on this.

    For me, it's kind of like the difference between a 1978 Suburban and a 2014 Suburban. They are designed to do the same thing, but there are each of them that do something better. I will take the comforts of the 2014 Suburban any day of the week. Heated seats, power mirrors and windows, good suspension, better crash test ratings, etc.

    But if I'm out in the middle of the desert on a family vacation or something, miles away from the nearest town, and I break down, I'm going to want that 1978 Suburban, that I go out and fix with some wrenches and screwdriver, without need some computer or having to chase miles of wire.

    We have that HME engine as our first out rig at my #1 department. I love that truck. 2000GPM with 1050GWT and foam system. It's spacious, comfortable, good compartment space, 6 man enclosed cab, heat and A/C, AM/FM/CD stereo and speakers, etc etc. It's awesome to drive down the road, it's quick it's comfortable and rides incredibly well for being a fire truck. But, it has it's flaws. On that house fire that Fyred and I posted about last year, something went wrong with the electronics. Not 100% sure if it was left opened, or if the MPO accidentally opened it, but a drain was left open. SOAKED, and I mean SOAKED the inside of the pump panel and fried one of the electronic modules. From then on at that fire, the pump didn't work. I was getting hydrant pressure only, and luckily we were 100 feet from the hydrant that was just below the water tower so I had good pressure, and that my mutual aid engine arrived shortly after that.

    But I would take the Mack back anyday. Compartment space worked well for what he had that truck doing, pump and tank were definitely sufficient, a lot of fire was put out with that truck both with me and before my time. Only had seating for 5, and 2 were in the back under the canopy cab, so yeah it was either hot or cold depending on the season, but that's something I could never tell for one reason or another (adrenaline? Excitement?). But I don't recall any issues we had with the pump or anything that wasn't able to be fixed on scene because it was all mechanical controls. Had the incident above happened to the Mack, I feel we wouldn't have seen anything go wrong, being as everything isn't controlled by a computer.

    My point being, after this long post, is what some others have said. Both newer and older trucks have their advantages, and for me makes the older rigs just as on par with the newer rigs, because I think having mechanical pump controls you can fix on scene if sh*t goes wrong is just as important as having the creature comforts of a new rig.
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    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

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  4. #44
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Chenzo...

    Nice post and I agree with your points. I had actually startd a post that included mentioning the radio, the foam, LED lights, the generator and extenda lights, and all of that, but decided to just post what I did instead.

    Oh, by the way your facts are WRONG! That HME engine has a 1020 GWT and an integral 30 gallon foam cell. For a total capacity of 1050 gallons.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Oh, by the way your facts are WRONG! That HME engine has a 1020 GWT and an integral 30 gallon foam cell. For a total capacity of 1050 gallons.
    I knew 1050 didn't sound right for just the WT, but I knew 1050 belonged there somewhere. Thanks.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  6. #46
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    I knew 1050 didn't sound right for just the WT, but I knew 1050 belonged there somewhere. Thanks.
    I did help design the son of a bitch!
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    What's next? No back up camera? No GPS? No MDT? No self dimming mirrors? No power mirrors? OH CRAP!! IT DOESN"T HAVE ANY LED WARNING LIGHTS!!! HORRORS!!

    Geezus, I get that you love the new rigs. HOORAY FOR YOU! Now get over yourself. Because my Mack will still be running and pumping long after the multiplexing nightmares are sitting in scrap yards.
    So what if YOUR Mack will be pumping a fire musters. Weren't you the one whining about not accepting new ideas???
    BTW, I do seem to remember all those old trucks eating alternators, causing interference with the radios, and yes, even breaking down.
    The fact is, the day of the Mack is long gone. End of story.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    BTW, I do seem to remember all those old trucks eating alternators, causing interference with the radios, and yes, even breaking down.
    There's a big difference between eating an alternator (easily diagnosed on an old truck compared to the computerization of a new one), causing radio interference (all the technology in a new truck could cause radio interference as well), and breaking down (it's a lot easier to diagnose an issue with a truck that doesn't have computer controlling everything) on a new truck and old truck.

    It's not about old being better than new. It's about both types of trucks having their strong points and their weak points. The mechanical simplicity of an older vehicle, fire truck or otherwise, is far easier to diagnose and repair than the complexity of the wiring and computer systems on a new rig. On the other side of the coin, the safety features and creature comforts of a new rig are better than that of an open cab or canopy cab rig from the past.
    "A fire department that writes off civilians faster than an express line of 6 reasons or less is not progressive, it's dangerous, because it's run by fear. Fear does not save lives, it endangers them." -- Lt. Ray McCormack FDNY

    "Because if you don't think you're good, nobody else will." -- DC Tom Laun (ret) Syracuse

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    So what if YOUR Mack will be pumping a fire musters. Weren't you the one whining about not accepting new ideas???
    BTW, I do seem to remember all those old trucks eating alternators, causing interference with the radios, and yes, even breaking down.
    The fact is, the day of the Mack is long gone. End of story.
    Pretty sure he was whining about people accepting new ideas just because they are new ideas. He generally has no issue with accepting better ideas.

    New ideas.....comfort items on a truck to protect from cold/heat.
    Better ideas....more reliable trucks (less electronics).
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I did help design the son of a bitch!
    Another person who knows the details on "Their HME".... our 2006 has a tank capacity of 1216 gallons at least that is what the tank document has on it...haven't filled 1216 milk containers yet to verify but.... Like you I did a lot on the Design of the SOB!! I kind of know about it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    So what if YOUR Mack will be pumping a fire musters. Weren't you the one whining about not accepting new ideas???
    BTW, I do seem to remember all those old trucks eating alternators, causing interference with the radios, and yes, even breaking down.
    The fact is, the day of the Mack is long gone. End of story.
    Had an old Mack CF 's alternator go bad on a fire -shut off the lights and kept pumping - got the fire out , shifted it manually back into road , clicked the old Allison 740 in gear and DROVE it to the shop. I agree `100% with Bones -- we need to embrace the GOOD/ useful/functional improvements, but don't slobber all over ourselves over the latest and greatest, while discarding the older dependable features.
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    ?

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    So what if YOUR Mack will be pumping a fire musters. Weren't you the one whining about not accepting new ideas???
    BTW, I do seem to remember all those old trucks eating alternators, causing interference with the radios, and yes, even breaking down.
    The fact is, the day of the Mack is long gone. End of story.

    If my Mack eats an alternator, I lose electricity. She keeps running and pumping water into the line thats going into the building with my guys on the other end.......

    If your Pierce (or whatever other modern air conditioned super luxurious multiplexed electronic azzhole you are using) eats an alternator- what happens? As I said before- You stand there with your limp **** in your hand. Oh, and write a very large check to the local heavy tow operator, and an even larger one to the repair shop to fix the problem.

    End of story.
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  13. #53
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    I learned early never to make fun of the oldest truck in a station. No matter what condition it is in, it saved someone's bacon at least once and is sacrosanct.

    By the same token, I can also remember when an entire Pierce price list was about 50 pages and detailed specs were about 35. (Page 15 was a 750 GPM pump, 15A was a 1000 gallon. Pull the staple and remove the page that wasn't necessary then hand it to the chief.)

    Darn. Does Geritol actually work?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    So what if YOUR Mack will be pumping a fire musters.

    I never said a thing about fire musters. You have no clue what I intend to do with this rig. So roll your eyes all you wish.

    Weren't you the one whining about not accepting new ideas???

    Clearly you openly embrace any thing that comes down the line because it is shiny and new. Far less visionary than those that question and wait to see if new technology works. Look at pressure governors when they first came out, I can tell you a dozen stories of $400K+ rigs that once they arrived on scene couldn't and wouldn't pump a drop because of a computer failure. Many of those departments were happy to have older rigs that saved their a z z es at those calls when they actually worked.

    My bet is if you read what I have posted over time here instead of looking at every post I have made about MY Mack CF you would see that I am pretty radical in equipment and ideas. Sorry to make your little vendetta look stupid, but it is what it is.


    BTW, I do seem to remember all those old trucks eating alternators, causing interference with the radios, and yes, even breaking down.

    This Mack never has, but I have seen computers on new rigs power them down, not let the transmission shift properly, not let the pump go into gear, not let the aerial raise or rotate, turn warning lights off, and the best of all not even let the rig start. Yeah, this new technology and dependence on miles of wire and multiple computers is awesome.

    The fact is, the day of the Mack is long gone. End of story.

    So is the day of the simple, easy to fix, fire truck. That is the real end of story.
    You really need to chill out and stop being such an angry person over this.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 03-20-2014 at 12:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    I learned early never to make fun of the oldest truck in a station. No matter what condition it is in, it saved someone's bacon at least once and is sacrosanct.

    By the same token, I can also remember when an entire Pierce price list was about 50 pages and detailed specs were about 35. (Page 15 was a 750 GPM pump, 15A was a 1000 gallon. Pull the staple and remove the page that wasn't necessary then hand it to the chief.)

    Darn. Does Geritol actually work?
    Our 1978 Mack specs were 32 pages. My 2010 engine was 128. Ahh for the simpler days.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  16. #56
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    Classic lines, impecable lineage, a workhorse that never let us down at a fire, and still purrs like a kitten...

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    I just took her for the spring shake down cruise of about ten miles and she ran just fine. The Q and the air horns were like angels singing in harmony with that mack diesel.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 03-20-2014 at 05:53 PM.
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    AH yes::: the sound of a bulldog biting a cat on the arse
    :-}

  18. #58
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    You know the most ironic thing about this discussion? Pierce, the re-inventor of everything old and making it new again, is using the designator CF for one of their cabs. And NO, I don't think for one damn second that it is a coincidence. They are playing hard on a name that sold a ton of fire apparatus.
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  19. #59
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    There are a bunch of Pierce pumpers around New Jersey, with a Mack CF chassis under them. What other than there own chassis, did Pierce build on ?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    You really need to chill out and stop being such an angry person over this.
    Angry?? Not hardly. Just pointing out your hypocracy...

    But I do hope you enjoy running your engine, yes they were very nice back in the day.

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