1. #1
    Forum Member
    gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,429

    Default Replacing crew door with compartment

    Hey guys,

    Working on a spec for some engines, and we have been searching for a practical method of storing our EMS/ALS equipment in the cab. We've tried the standard back of the wall compartment between the jump seats, and we've tried a center compartment extending back from the doghouse. Equipment was unreachable from the ground. Climate control is also a serious issue, especially this year.

    Two options we are looking at are:

    1. Extending the cab by 20-24 inches like the new E-One ALS rig:
    Name:  E-One ALS cab St Pete Beach.jpg
Views: 1086
Size:  35.3 KB

    2. Since our normal staffing is 3, very rarely 4 including EMT students, we are considering replacing the crew cab door on the driver side with a compartment. We'll keep 2 jump seats across from each other on the PS.
    Name:  Baldwin EMS R510-3.jpg
Views: 1055
Size:  31.0 KB

    Option 2 has the advantage of shortening the cab and the length of the apparatus. We know it would make it impossible for the jumpseat FF to exit on the DS, but he can't now with all the crap on the floor in the back.

    Anyone have any other pros/cons?

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber
    npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    When I sold, I had a customer that wanted to do the same thing. They ended up changing their mind for various reasons, maybe he can chime in on here. Erik was on here quite a bit.

    One thing to consider is resale. You'll have a far easier time selling that cab style on the E-One than you will a three door cab. Egress in a wreck could be an issue as well.

    You can put a cabinet on the side of the rig that replaces a jump seat just behind the officer or engineer, and have access to this cabinet from the side roll up or hinged door behind the front and rear doors, and have access from just inside the rear access door. This still keeps all four doors intact on the cab. You can configure the interior access just about anyway you want. Name:  P9212243.jpg
Views: 970
Size:  40.3 KB Name:  delivery3258.jpg
Views: 952
Size:  39.8 KB

    I attached a couple more of Baldwin's setup that I had found while researching things for Godfrey. If you want better files, let me know and I can e-mail them.

    Name:  Baldwin EMS 64803 (1).jpg
Views: 980
Size:  26.6 KBName:  Baldwin EMS 64803 (6).jpg
Views: 951
Size:  32.6 KB
    Last edited by npfd801; 03-04-2014 at 12:28 AM.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,688

    Default

    We have E-One extended cabs...we added the "ALS" door on the passenger side and on driver side, it's only a bottom half compartment. The 3 seats along the rear wall left open space below, so we added 4 tubes and put NY Hooks in there, 2 accessible from either side. We also added a water can to each side. Guys can get off either way and grab a hook and can. Drivers SCBA is also in the lower compartment.
    The "ALS" compartment is accessible from the interior as well.

    Hope the pictures work...
    Name:  DSCN0160.jpg
Views: 916
Size:  49.0 KBName:  DSCN0165.jpg
Views: 914
Size:  23.8 KB
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    Swanton Fire Dept. Swanton, Vermont
    Posts
    476

    Default

    I have no first hand experience but look at this rig in Wells, Maine.
    http://www.firenews.org/me/w/WellsMEE3new.jpg

    They may have some insight if you contacted them. This is a 2006 and the new 2013 engines do not have the compartment.

    http://www.firenews.org/vt/s/southburlingtonvt.html This department has EMS cab access on both sides of their PUC engines and I think ladder too.

    No matter what it has to work for your department....
    Last edited by ChiefDog; 03-04-2014 at 09:25 AM. Reason: added another link

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,862

    Default

    We had our rescue pumper built with shelving at the drivers side rear cab door. This allowed for cab climate controlled space that is readily accessible. Rather than go with a special door, we just used the door provided. This left us with three seats in the rear (two middle forward facing, one outboard officer side rear facing) in the short Spartan Gladiator cab.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    FFWALT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    357

    Default

    As suggested previously, I think your best option is to retain four doors but replace one of the rear facing seats with a compartment designated for EMS supplies. The guy(s) in the rear can hand the equipment out prior to getting out on EMS runs.

    Another option is not having the forward facing jump seats along the back wall and put a compartment there.

    Either option would still maintain the option of seating 4-5 if needed as well as the option to exit on either side of the apparatus. This will help for safety as well as resale value.

    Although I haven't priced it I would assume removing 1-2 jump seats and placing a cabinet in that area would be cheaper than having a chassis built without the door because a 3 door chassis would be a little odd in the assembly line process but this is just a guess.

    Additionally, if you don't put a seat in that location and simply bolt the cabinet you want in its place it leaves the option of removing the cabinet and installing a seat. This may help resale down the road or if staffing was to ever increase during the service life of this engine.

    Just my thoughts,
    Walt
    Train like you want to fight.
    www.kvfd.net

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,862

    Default

    Here's a few shots of our solution. It's not fancy, but it is effective. Equipment on the top shelf and forward of the main opening is retrieved from inside the cab, while everything on the lower areas is accessed from the ground.Name:  IMG_0780 [Desktop Resolution].jpg
Views: 793
Size:  48.6 KB

    Name:  IMG_0781 [Desktop Resolution].jpg
Views: 803
Size:  51.7 KB

    The boxes on the top shelf are seat-belted in, and a few other items are missing from other shelves as I caught today's crew in the middle of the cleaning/checks.

    Name:  IMG_0782 [Desktop Resolution].jpg
Views: 794
Size:  43.2 KB
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 03-05-2014 at 01:09 PM. Reason: keyboard caused spelling errors

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,108

    Default

    If you are eliminating an egress point for those riding in the back of the rig I suggest that you put in a roof kick out panel in case the rig rolls, or is pinned so that the rear occupants can't use the door.

    We had a low profile quint at my career FD that had the engine tunnel in between the rear seats. Because of the low profile you could not get over the tunnel to use the other side door. Both sides on the rear had kick out panels in the roof incase the rig rolled on its side.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,429

    Default

    FyredUp, You're making a valid point, but we've had several rigs over the years (Pierce Lances) with the engine tunnel in the back high enough you can't climb over, and no one has ever mentioned a concern with egress. With all the crap mounted on the doghouse, I'm not sure many of our guys could get from the officer side to the driver side and vice versa in the front of the cab either.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    FyredUp, You're making a valid point, but we've had several rigs over the years (Pierce Lances) with the engine tunnel in the back high enough you can't climb over, and no one has ever mentioned a concern with egress. With all the crap mounted on the doghouse, I'm not sure many of our guys could get from the officer side to the driver side and vice versa in the front of the cab either.
    Perhaps not, but it would only take one time with the rig rolled on that side so the door couldn't open with the rig on fire or under water for it to be realized that it shouldn't be an option it should be mandatory..
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    FyredUp, You're making a valid point, but we've had several rigs over the years (Pierce Lances) with the engine tunnel in the back high enough you can't climb over, and no one has ever mentioned a concern with egress. With all the crap mounted on the doghouse, I'm not sure many of our guys could get from the officer side to the driver side and vice versa in the front of the cab either.
    We discussed this very topic as well. Our conclusions were similar to what you note above. First, for most of the past our previous aerials had the engine tunnel that prevented crossing over. In the case of our Spartan/Toyne the room above the top shelf would allow a firefighter to pass over the shelf and out the door. Our doghouse area also is not so tight that this would be prevented. I still like my chances of escaping a "3-door custom cab over any 4 door commercial cab in a rollover, where the crushed roof makes all doors inaccessible and shrinks all other escape points.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 03-06-2014 at 09:47 AM. Reason: keyboard caused spelling errors

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    We discussed this very topic as well. Our conclusions were similar to what you note above. First, for most of the past our previous aerials had the engine tunnel that prevented crossing over. In the case of our Spartan/Toyne the room above the top shelf would allow a firefighter to pass over the shelf and out the door. Our doghouse area also is not so tight that this wouwatermelons to tennis ballsld be prevented. I still like my chances of escaping a "3-door custom cab over any 4 door commercial cab in a rollover, where the crushed roof makes all doors inaccessible and shrinks all other escape points.
    Honestly, comparing a four door commercial cab to a custom cab of any configuration is like comparing watermelons to tennis balls. They don't compare and really one isn't even part of the topic.

    I guess to me, the added expense of the kick out panel is worth it even if the rig is never involved in an accident. Why? Because if it is, and my firefighter is trapped and dies because there is no other way out other than the door that is now on the ground with the apparatus on top of it, it will be too late to say "Damn it, why didn't we think of that possibility." This is one of those cases where for me the answer is obvious. But like so many things in the fire service your opinion may vary.

    Honestly though, I would never build a rig with the configuration mentioned here. My truck at my career FD had forward facing jumpseats against the back wall and we had compartments where the rear facing seats would go. The ems stuff was in those compartments and it was no hardship for me to climb out of the rig, open the compartment, and pull the equipment out while standing on the ground.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Honestly, comparing a four door commercial cab to a custom cab of any configuration is like comparing watermelons to tennis balls. They don't compare and really one isn't even part of the topic.
    Merely pointing out that if you're concerned with firefighters being trapped in a rollover, a commerical cab shouldn't even be in your thought process at all. Kick out panel sound nice, never heard of them until now, didn't know they were an option, didn't really have that significant a concern. While I'm for providing as much safety as we can for our personnel, we can't be crippled by what-if's. A single means of egress from many types of vehicles is common and legal. Nonetheless, if the kick-out panels are a reasonable option, I couldn't see why you wouldn't include them if you had open roof space (not an option on our cab due equipment mounting).

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Box2565's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Edgewood, Kentucky
    Posts
    723

    Default

    Hi,

    There is a Sutphen quint at Amberley, Ohio that has an arrangement similar to what you were asking about. Follow the link to photos: http://yngfire.com/index.php/topic,7...5.html#msg3615

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,429

    Default

    I'm growing more and more partial to the extra doors behind the crew cab, like the E-One pictured above. In the trucks we've seen with the cabinets in place of the rear facing jumpseats, the cabinets have not been deep enough for our EMS gear.

    Since we've been using top mount pumpers for years, and the chief has decided to go with side mounts on the new rigs, the added length isn't an issue. YMMV.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    85

    Default

    Lets back up a few steps. What type of gear is being carried for medical calls and how much future gear is planned?

  17. #17
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Here's a few shots of our solution. It's not fancy, but it is effective. Equipment on the top shelf and forward of the main opening is retrieved from inside the cab, while everything on the lower areas is accessed from the ground.Attachment 23353

    Attachment 23354

    The boxes on the top shelf are seat-belted in, and a few other items are missing from other shelves as I caught today's crew in the middle of the cleaning/checks.

    Attachment 23355
    Don't take this wrong but, I see a whole bunch of potential projectiles if you guys get t-boned or something. That loose stuff should be behind doors of some sort or secured for your safety.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,862

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Don't take this wrong but, I see a whole bunch of potential projectiles if you guys get t-boned or something. That loose stuff should be behind doors of some sort or secured for your safety.
    I absolutely understand your concern and it's valid. What you can't see is that everything on the top shelf (exposed to the cab) has a belting system that secures them to the shelf. In the pic the crew is doing a morning inspection so some of the items are missing and the restraints are off. The equipment on the lower shelves are closed completely in by the door, as the shelves come out to within a inch or less of the inside of the door skin, thus they can be shaken not stirred (or thrown). Still I'd probably do something different with the the top shelf next time, like make it a cabinet with doors opening into the cab as those items are too high to retrieve from the street when buckled in and a slight PIA from inside the cab.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,429

    Default

    SuperFire,
    LP12, ALS jump bag, drug box, and O2 bag go in on every call. Also carry a trauma bag, pediatric bag, biohazard/decon kit, and various splints, etc. Intention is to get the 4 primary items off the cab floor and into lockable compartments. The rear wall compartment hasn't worked for us, and the size of the equipment means it won't fit well into the rear-facing jumpseat compartments.

    After much deliberation and comparison, this is similar to what we are going to specify:

    Name:  Commack 046.jpg
Views: 352
Size:  35.4 KB

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    Our engines are built with storage in the first compartment on the driver's side (which we call the pump operator's compartment) for their fire gear and SCBA. The EMS equipment is on the first compartment on the officer's side. It has a small electric heater to keep equipment relatively warm. I've not heard of any problems with our EMS equipment. We carry 2 Cabbage Cases (suitcase style kits) one for airway, and one for drugs, bandages, etc., a Lifepak 12, C-collar bag, assorted splints, and other equipment with plenty of room.
    Here's the drawing for our engines. R1 and L1 are the compartments used.
    http://www.sutphen.com/PDFs/5363_drawing.pdf

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    gunnyv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    SE MI
    Posts
    1,429

    Default

    johnsb,
    Our Sutphen rep pushed sent us the drawing for E32, which I believe is almost the same. There is a lot we liked about that rig.

    We chose the larger cab because it keeps the ALS equipment in the same climate controlled area as the personnel. Based on our dept's experience, we felt that putting a heater and A/C in a compartment would be doomed to failure. That is more of an issue with us than the rig itself, but an accurate reflection of the way things are maintained here.

    How do your Sutphens ride? Ours are terrible, and we've been trying to get something done about it without success.

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    johnsb,
    Our Sutphen rep pushed sent us the drawing for E32, which I believe is almost the same. There is a lot we liked about that rig.

    We chose the larger cab because it keeps the ALS equipment in the same climate controlled area as the personnel. Based on our dept's experience, we felt that putting a heater and A/C in a compartment would be doomed to failure. That is more of an issue with us than the rig itself, but an accurate reflection of the way things are maintained here.

    How do your Sutphens ride? Ours are terrible, and we've been trying to get something done about it without success.
    I've NEVER heard of any problems with the heater in the compartment, (not that it's never happened, just haven't heard anyone saying any of the heaters have failed.) and we don't have AC in the compartment, that's not been a problem either.
    As for the way our trucks ride, I don't have a real problem with the ride. My problem with Sutphen is the fit and finish. The door latch mechanisms are built TOO light, they need to be heavier. And there have been a lot of little nickel and dime problems that have finally been fixed after about a year and a half. I've always liked the looks, it's just their attention to detail most times. Another point I'll make is that the hose bed's for our 1 3/4" lines need to have hose trays, they're just too deep to load without being a major PITA. But that's our spec's, not Sutphen.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. E-One Replacement Compartment Door
    By slackett66 in forum Emergency Vehicle Operations
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 02-28-2011, 05:57 AM
  2. Compartment Set-Ups and VR Tours
    By BFD1581 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-08-2007, 04:43 PM
  3. Custom (4 door) vs. Commercial (2 door)
    By skcfa1523 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 41
    Last Post: 07-18-2006, 02:20 AM
  4. Door-to-door checkups????? Unbelievable!
    By kentbwj in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-17-2004, 10:42 PM
  5. poping a door with an air bag in the door
    By Hammerhead338 in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-21-2001, 04:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register