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Thread: Removing SCBA/Changing bottles when training for RIT situations

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    I do agree with this. There is the potential for something to collapse behind making your retreat more difficult. I am not saying that it should not be taught or learned. I am saying in practical applications, I would rather learn techniques for escape that do not require removing your SCBA - like breaching a wall and going through bottle first between the studs, or finding an alternate route to exit.

    If and when it is time to go, you don't have to go all the way back to the entrance you used to come in.

    As far as going in - if I have to take my bottle off to get there, I am saying you would be better off either finding another way or not going - outside of firefighter rescue. It just seems as if there would be too many limitations preventing your escape if you have to strip down just to get in - keep in mind, I am speaking of significant, hostile fire conditions - not confined space or the like.
    Good points. Alternate egress is often the better choice over going back. The advantage to going back can be searchline or hoseline to follow. Case by case basis. Along with experience and skill level of firefighter(s) involved, most likely. Communications with exterior can be hugely important in determining best option.

    The options we use do not ever require facepiece removal. Facepiece stays on but harness gets slid around to your side for reduced profile or pushed ahead of you along floor for low clearance situation.

    Breaching a wall can be difficult and time/air consuming. Lath and plaster is possible in older homes/apartments and is not easily navigated. There is likely furniture along walls. Plumbing/electrical runs can be encountered. Definitely an option but it comes with issues involved. By the time you get safely in to next room, it may also be untenable.
    Last edited by captnjak; 07-19-2014 at 04:53 PM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    At smoke divers they taught us to remove the bottle from the harness and breath by turning the valve on and off- as an absolute last resort of course.....But I have never heard of purposely changing a bottle in an IDLH environment.
    Where did you go through Smoke Diver?
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The52nd View Post
    The "R" in RIT is supposed to be Rapid. All of this bottle changing is anything but rapid. When the RIT's air gets low start the second team in, and get the first team out. The first team can direct the second team to the area they left, then change bottles once out side. The member in trouble will be much more impressed with being quickly rescued than they will the skill with which the RIT wasted time changing their bottles.

    Also, realize that once a RIT/MayDay is activated, everyone on the fire ground is potentially RIT, whether assigned initially or not. The IC, and/or RIT chief makes that decision.
    I concur. IMO, much of what is being taught about RIT looks great on paper, but is not practical. The people in the best position to effect a rescue are going to be the guys inside working around whoever has an issue.

    As far as swapping bottles and face pieces go, if it is late in the event and someone is pinned or having a medical issue in a stable and hostile free environment - yes, give them or swap the mask. If it's early in the incident and there is still plenty of fire and/or smoke, your gonna get drug out and then see what the problem is. I am not gonna take the time to leave you (or me) inside trying to swap stuff around when I could have you outside faster.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Where did you go through Smoke Diver?
    It's important that we know this so no one else ever goes there!

    Reminds me of an instructor I once heard telling guys to get down on the floor and suck fresh air up through the floor boards from the floor below.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    I concur. IMO, much of what is being taught about RIT looks great on paper, but is not practical. The people in the best position to effect a rescue are going to be the guys inside working around whoever has an issue.

    As far as swapping bottles and face pieces go, if it is late in the event and someone is pinned or having a medical issue in a stable and hostile free environment - yes, give them or swap the mask. If it's early in the incident and there is still plenty of fire and/or smoke, your gonna get drug out and then see what the problem is. I am not gonna take the time to leave you (or me) inside trying to swap stuff around when I could have you outside faster.
    We just need to remember that the guys working around the victim are probably doing some vital tasks that may still need to be done to affect the rescue. They may also be running out of air and/or energy. They could become part of the problem instead of the solution. They may also be, for some departments, the only option.

    I generally agree though that grab and go is usually the best tactic for removal. It's an untenable area or we wouldn't call it an emergency, so why come up with long convoluted removal programs that INCREASE exposure?
    MemphisE34a likes this.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    It's important that we know this so no one else ever goes there!

    Reminds me of an instructor I once heard telling guys to get down on the floor and suck fresh air up through the floor boards from the floor below.
    Not sure where he went, but I went through MS Smoke Diver class. It is actually the best class I ever took, yet you won't learn anything new - except about yourself.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    To be honest....the URC is not common in this area. We give them a new full bottle, not a partial one.
    Most SCBA's have a URC these days and any RIT Pack supplier will have one on it...We teach the trans fill method because you're not just going to leave the RIT Pack in the fire. Our has a 6" hose on it, so after connected and tanks equalize, the firefighter can remain hooked up to it and use the air out of both bottles.....In reality, this gives him all of whats left in his bottle plus an additional full bottle to pull from..I am not saying this is right or wrong, its just what we teach...

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