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Thread: Brush Truck Bumper Sprayers

  1. #21
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfelix22000us View Post
    Firepundit, dually does make a difference. Single rear pickup F350's last I knew, are rated at 9900 lbs. 300 gallons on that chassis would be grossly overloaded. Dually F350's are rated around 13,000 (maybe 13,500, I can't remember). With a tare weight of 9000 lbs (which should be high for a gas engine) that gives you at least 4000 lbs to work with. Yes, when you figure in the 20% reduction for offroad you'll be overweight for that purpose more than likely.

    Like everything else, it really comes down to training and knowing your equipment. I drive dually dump bodies and pull trailers nearly every day. I would be comfortable in the truck we are discussing. Someone else that only drives a car or a small SUV probably shouldn't get behind the wheel on a response until they've had practice driving it under training conditions.

    I fully agree on the stopping issue!
    I intensely dislike duallies on brush trucks. I much prefer a super single. Just my personal preference, other's opinions may vary.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We've met? When and where? Now my curiousity is piqued.
    I prefer my anonymity.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfelix22000us View Post
    Firepundit, dually does make a difference. Single rear pickup F350's last I knew, are rated at 9900 lbs. 300 gallons on that chassis would be grossly overloaded. Dually F350's are rated around 13,000 (maybe 13,500, I can't remember). With a tare weight of 9000 lbs (which should be high for a gas engine) that gives you at least 4000 lbs to work with. Yes, when you figure in the 20% reduction for offroad you'll be overweight for that purpose more than likely.

    Like everything else, it really comes down to training and knowing your equipment. I drive dually dump bodies and pull trailers nearly every day. I would be comfortable in the truck we are discussing. Someone else that only drives a car or a small SUV probably shouldn't get behind the wheel on a response until they've had practice driving it under training conditions.

    I fully agree on the stopping issue!

    The highest payload capacity, according the the body builder book for a 2014 Ford F350 is 7260 pounds. That is for a regular cab 4x2 with a 6.2L gas engine and a 137" wheelbase, no pickup box (bare frame rails) and no options. All options reduce the payload. The front springs are rated for 4100 pounds with a curb weight of 3028 pounds. The rear springs are rated for 9650 pounds with a curb weight of 3028 pounds. Unfortunately, we always end up putting equipment like the pump and such at the rear of the apparatus which pushes the center of gravity of the water tank toward the front axle where there just isn't that much room to play with.

    So, if you have a totally standard 4x2 with no body and the tank directly over the rear axle everything will be fine.

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    I probably should elaborate a little more on my last post.

    The F350 payload varies from the high of 7260 pounds to a low of 3750 pounds depending on the configuration and again with no options. Loaded with options it can be as low as 2550 pounds. Without having the specs in front of me I always tend to be conservative.

  5. #25
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    I prefer my anonymity.
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    Okay, I'm done here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Attachment 23373

    Okay, I'm done here.
    No, it gives me the freedom to say what I want without reflecting on my employer or being restricted by same. Look how many other vendor employees have come and gone.

  7. #27
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    No, it gives me the freedom to say what I want without reflecting on my employer or being restricted by same. Look how many other vendor employees have come and gone.
    Um, there is private messenging.

    But, do as you wish. I am at an unfair disadvantage and it makes me uncomfortable.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  8. #28
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    We don't have the bumper sprayers but have the remote controlled nozzle on 3 of our grass rigs. We use them when we are short on help (1 person in the truck) and use them for a 2nd line when we are hitting the head fire.

    Our neighbors started out with the spray nozzles then added a remote control nozzle on their pickup.

    I agree - most grass rigs I have driven were overloaded. The first department I was with had 3/4 ton tucks with 250 gallons of water - thought it was a big step up when we went to 1 tons. We are currently starting a replacement cycle to upgrade to 550's from 1 tons. Some of the neighbors are going away from pickups to larger commercial chassis (4x4 and 6x6) but now you have dramatically increased cost.

  9. #29
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
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    Fireresq1419,

    Back to your original question, last year our department installed two spray nozzles on the front of one of our grass rigs. Each nozzle has a low flow and are actually controlled from independent switches on the driver console. Once the pump is running all the driver has to do is flip the switch to turn the respective nozzle on or off. Members of our department made the installation, only lesson learned was to make sure you select the proper type of hose. It was relatively cheap to do and they are surprisingly effective.

    Good luck,
    Walt
    Train like you want to fight.
    www.kvfd.net

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    Fireresq1419,

    Back to your original question, last year our department installed two spray nozzles on the front of one of our grass rigs. Each nozzle has a low flow and are actually controlled from independent switches on the driver console. Once the pump is running all the driver has to do is flip the switch to turn the respective nozzle on or off. Members of our department made the installation, only lesson learned was to make sure you select the proper type of hose. It was relatively cheap to do and they are surprisingly effective.

    Good luck,
    Walt
    Thank you for the great info! Would you by chance be able to get me any pictures of the set up by chance? That would be great.

    Thanks.

  11. #31
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
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    Fireresq1419,

    For the life of me I cannot get the files to attach, computers are not my thing. PM me with your e-mail and I'll send them to you. If you can get them on here after that feel free.

    Talked with our guy that put them on when I took the pictures yesterday. They are simply sprayer (field sprayer) nozzles that put out 4-6 gpm. He did drill them out two sizes over. They added a 1 inch "T" before one of the valves in the back, added a valve to the bumper nozzles and ran the hose to the front bumper. Add another "T" that leads to the left and right sides of the front bumper with an inline electric valve then attach the spray nozzles and position them where you want them. The electronic valves got wired to two switches on the console to turn them on and off. In the winter we can shut off the supply valve, open the electronic valves and drain the line.

    Sorry I wasn't able to post the pictures but I will e-mail them.

    Walt.
    Train like you want to fight.
    www.kvfd.net

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    Yes, drains. If you are in a cold weather area, lately, that is everywhere, don't forget to put drains in the lowest points of your plumbing. Of course, drains only work if they get used so you might consider automatic drains. Automatic drains activate when the pressure drops below a few psi.

    Also, if you use agricultural nozzles, look for fan type with a 120 degree pattern. Position them so you get overlap at the center of the apparatus. Since flows will be in the 5 GPM range per nozzle and a total 10 GPM flow, consider plastic tubing and compression fittings to lighten the load. If you are looking for rock solid, 20 year plumbing, single wire hydraulic hose with stainless steel fittings would be the preference in lieu of tubing.

    Sorry I got off topic earlier in this thread. I get irked when people put firefighter's lives at risk.

  13. #33
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
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    Firepundit,

    I understand the tangent you went off on. Just because we are the fire service doesn't mean that the laws of physics don't apply to us. As with most things I took it with a grain of salt. Glad you apologized. What really irks me is when people get into the "right vs. wrong" argument and can't appreciate the other point of view. Just because it works for me and makes sense to my department doesn't mean it will work for you or someone else or make sense to them (regarding overall operations).

    Saw a sign once that said to effect "Smart people talk about ideas, average people talk about things and little people talk about other people". It's interesting to see how some people can't evolve to discussing the ins and outs of ideas without getting into name calling and derogatory comments.

    Take care,
    Walt
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    Thanks guys, that will help a lot. I was defiantly going to be putting drains on them. I never really thought about the electric valves for each side. I was just thinking one manual valve at the back for both of them, but that does make as much sense as the electric ones for each side.

    Walt,
    I will PM you with my email.

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    The one I remember from years ago was low tech --- a 2" flex line from the pump manifold up through the floor by the hump, it wyed into 2 lines with each having a 1/4 turn ball valve, the hollow pipe bumper was divided in two with one line to each side. whatever you do, you need to be able to shut off the bumper from the cab. it also had a gated 1" discharge on each end which we never used.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireresq1419 View Post
    Thanks guys, that will help a lot. I was defiantly going to be putting drains on them.
    Good. They are often overlooked by home builders. Not being snarky, just stating a fact.

    I never really thought about the electric valves for each side. I was just thinking one manual valve at the back for both of them, but that does make as much sense as the electric ones for each side.
    Again, look for parts from the agriculture sprayers. Their valves will be solenoid operated industrial grade valves rather than quarter turn apparatus valves. Apparatus valves are certainly full flow, drop-out and easy to maintain as well as built to last forever. However, they do not come cheap and you are looking for performance in a brush truck that you really don't expect to last for 30 years.

    This is not to degrade fire apparatus grade equipment. It has it's place. If a department specs out a designed apparatus with a 1-1/2" or 2" bumper mounted, remote controlled turret that is exactly what should be supplied if it can be done within standards. Driving a cut back on a mountain road with tall fuel on both sides and mountain winds, I would want that thing CAFS equipped and I am not a huge CAFS fan. When the Schlitz is ready to hit the fan I want the best money can buy.

    For everyday grass fires for the, generally, poorly funded department that must make due with what they got, every dollar has to count.

    With a simple around the pump foam system you would also be able to apply some class A through your ground sweep. Class A does not always have to make visible foam to be effective. A gentle slow roll on the general perimeter would make a great fire break on a windless day. Windy days might take a double wide sweep. With the 120 degree nozzles and a slight overlap at front, a 180 degree sweep would be about double the width of the truck, depending on height of the nozzles. Roughly a 14' to16' wide fire break. That could stop a lot of grass and field fires with a minimum of effort or exposure to personnel.
    Last edited by firepundit; 03-31-2014 at 10:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Good. They are often overlooked by home builders. Not being snarky, just stating a fact.



    Again, look for parts from the agriculture sprayers. Their valves will be solenoid operated industrial grade valves rather than quarter turn apparatus valves. Apparatus valves are certainly full flow, drop-out and easy to maintain as well as built to last forever. However, they do not come cheap and you are looking for performance in a brush truck that you really don't expect to last for 30 years.

    This is not to degrade fire apparatus grade equipment. It has it's place. If a department specs out a designed apparatus with a 1-1/2" or 2" bumper mounted, remote controlled turret that is exactly what should be supplied if it can be done within standards. Driving a cut back on a mountain road with tall fuel on both sides and mountain winds, I would want that thing CAFS equipped and I am not a huge CAFS fan. When the Schlitz is ready to hit the fan I want the best money can buy.

    For everyday grass fires for the, generally, poorly funded department that must make due with what they got, every dollar has to count.

    With a simple around the pump foam system you would also be able to apply some class A through your ground sweep. Class A does not always have to make visible foam to be effective. A gentle slow roll on the general perimeter would make a great fire break on a windless day. Windy days might take a double wide sweep. With the 120 degree nozzles and a slight overlap at front, a 180 degree sweep would be about double the width of the truck, depending on height of the nozzles. Roughly a 14' to16' wide fire break. That could stop a lot of grass and field fires with a minimum of effort or exposure to personnel.
    Great info, and I absolutely agree, if I wouldn't have looked on here, we would not have done drains probably. We definitely need to make every dollar count where I am at.

    Thanks

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fireresq1419 View Post
    Great info, and I absolutely agree, if I wouldn't have looked on here, we would not have done drains probably. We definitely need to make every dollar count where I am at.

    Thanks
    I am glad to be of help if you found something useful. Forgive the rantings of an old man. Just remember, I do have your best interests at heart.

  19. #39
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    All I am going to say is if you plan on driving into semi burned fuels no spray system is going to help because your exhaust can possibly reignite the fuel.

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