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Thread: Juniors using 4 way falshers in PA

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    Default Juniors using 4 way falshers in PA

    Are there any rules or laws in the State of Pennsylvania about Junior Firefighters using 4 way flashers when responding to the station or scene? I know that they aren't allowed to use blue lights, but there seems to be a lot of back and fourth as to if there are any actual LAWS about them using 4 way flashers when responding.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennfirefighter View Post
    Are there any rules or laws in the State of Pennsylvania about Junior Firefighters using 4 way flashers when responding to the station or scene? I know that they aren't allowed to use blue lights, but there seems to be a lot of back and fourth as to if there are any actual LAWS about them using 4 way flashers when responding.
    Ask your local fire and police department

    Answer should be no, as in not allowed

    You do not get there any faster

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    Is that just your opinion, or is it an actual state law...

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    The Pa Motor Vehicle Code does not allow for the use of hazard lights when responding to a fire for a senior firefighter, much less a junior. Just calm down and drive to the station like a normal human being.

    § 4305. Vehicular hazard signal lamps.
    (a) General rule.--Simultaneous flashing of the two front and two rear signal lamps shall indicate a vehicular traffic hazard. The driver of a motor vehicle equipped with simultaneous flashing signals shall use the signals when the vehicle is stopped or disabled on a highway, except when the vehicle is stopped in compliance with a traffic-control device or when legally parked. Drivers of other vehicles shall exercise extraordinary care in approaching, overtaking and passing a vehicle displaying vehicular hazard warning signals.

    (b) Use outside business and residence districts.--Outside of a business or residence district:
    1.The driver of a motor vehicle or combination equipped with simultaneous flashing signals shall use the signals when the vehicle is unable to maintain a speed of at least 25 miles per hour because of weather, grade or other similar factors or is unable to maintain a speed consistent with the normal flow of traffic.
    2.The driver of a bus equipped with simultaneous flashing signals shall use the signals when the bus is stopped with one or more wheels on the roadway between dusk and dawn for the purpose of receiving or discharging passengers.

    (c) Use below minimum speed limit.--The driver of a motor vehicle or combination equipped with simultaneous flashing signals shall use the signals when the vehicle is not maintaining at least the minimum speed established in accordance with the provisions of section 3364 (relating to minimum speed regulation).
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    That is my point. It doesn't say it in the PA vehicle code, so there are no regulations in accordance to using them to respond as a firefighter. They would have to say it in the code if they weren't allowed to be used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennfirefighter View Post
    That is my point. It doesn't say it in the PA vehicle code, so there are no regulations in accordance to using them to respond as a firefighter. They would have to say it in the code if they weren't allowed to be used.
    1. Perhaps our friend FWDBuff can post the PA laws about standards for visible and audible warning devices.

    2. A junior's first priority in his or her fire service career is not to find some way of responding "sorta code 3", but to learn, learn, and learn. This should be communicated to them by the other firefighters, who shouldn't be teaching lessons about how to circumvent laws.

    3. If said junior is responding all flashy-flashy and has an accident, what do you think a jury would say?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennfirefighter View Post
    That is my point. It doesn't say it in the PA vehicle code, so there are no regulations in accordance to using them to respond as a firefighter. They would have to say it in the code if they weren't allowed to be used.
    I posted the relevant section above- if it does not contain verbiage allowing it, then one should safely and reasonably assume that it is not allowed. Besides, it's a JUNIOR. He/She does not have enough experience driving under normal conditions, let alone responding to an alarm.....But then again we all know that in Pa. anyone not displaying red lights must follow ALL TRAFFIC LAWS.....And NO ONE with blue lights would ever or has ever violated this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennfirefighter View Post
    They would have to say it in the code if they weren't allowed to be used.
    Incorrect. Pennsylvania is one of 39 states (including Commonwealths) that fall under Dillon Rule, meaning that state codes are written to indicate what IS permitted. If not specifically granted or allowed, then it is to be assumed that the action is illegal. Therefore, no, you can't run 4-way flashers.

    Take it from those of us who've been doing this for a while, and started out as juniors - you don't need 4-way flashers, blue lights, horns, sirens, streamers, pom-pons, or anything else at this point in your career. Get in the car, drive normally to the firehouse, and live to see another day.
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    Pennfirefighter instead of getting yourself into a tizzy over all this, why don't you concentrate on something important, like your homework and getting good grades. When that is squared away, then concentrate on learning your duties, your SOP's, your rigs and most important of all- how to keep your mouth SHUT and your ears OPEN. Get a few years of driving under normal conditions under your belt before you become a "Blue-Light Degenerate."

    And.....if you absolutely, positively insist on making a federal case out of this 4-way flasher thing, why don't you have your Fire Dept Administration inquire to their Liability Insurance Carrier about THEIR feelings on a Junior "responding" to incidents in their private vehicles?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennfirefighter View Post
    That is my point. It doesn't say it in the PA vehicle code, so there are no regulations in accordance to using them to respond as a firefighter. They would have to say it in the code if they weren't allowed to be used.
    The law states when they are allowed to be used. Period.

    If there were exceptions, they would be in the law.

    I see the OP hasn't posted in a while. I guess he didn't like being told no.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 03-27-2014 at 01:33 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The law states when they are allowed to be used. Period.

    If there were exceptions, they would be in the law.

    I see the OP hasn't posted in a while. I guess he didn't like being told no.
    Yes, the old Endorsement Solicitation Post, constructed as follows:

    1. Fairly new firefighter or junior wants to do something.
    2. Command or administration does not favor it.
    3. New guy comes here and gives skewed description of situation, sometimes claiming it's another department.
    4. New guy thinks we'll all jump aboard with him and tell him, "This is what I would tell your chief!"
    5. Instead, he doesn't hear what he wants to hear and leaves the thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The law states when they are allowed to be used. Period.

    If there were exceptions, they would be in the law.

    I see the OP hasn't posted in a while. I guess he didn't like being told no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Yes, the old Endorsement Solicitation Post, constructed as follows:

    5. Instead, he doesn't hear what he wants to hear and leaves the thread.
    He didn't leave the thread- He just has a science report due on Monday and is working to get it done!
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    I'm still here, and this has nothing to do with me. I will admit that I went drect to a working fire the other day. I was following all the rules on my way to the call, but then this junior from another company that was on the call passed me at a high rate of speed. He was driving very recklessly. I was wondering if it is legal, because I feel that junior needs to be reported to his chief if he is driving recklessly. I also feel that if there is a law about using flashers, I should defiantly report him to his chief for breaking traffic laws en route to a call. I don't care about the junior and hate his guts anyway, so reporting him would bring me great pleasure and I would especially love if I could get him in trouble with the law. He is only a junior like me, so he should start acting like one.

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    But then again..... I don't want to make a jack *** out of myself by reporting him to his chief if there is nothing wrong and no laws about with him using them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennfirefighter View Post
    I'm still here, and this has nothing to do with me. I will admit that I went drect to a working fire the other day. I was following all the rules on my way to the call, but then this junior from another company that was on the call passed me at a high rate of speed. He was driving very recklessly. I was wondering if it is legal, because I feel that junior needs to be reported to his chief if he is driving recklessly. I also feel that if there is a law about using flashers, I should defiantly report him to his chief for breaking traffic laws en route to a call. I don't care about the junior and hate his guts anyway, so reporting him would bring me great pleasure and I would especially love if I could get him in trouble with the law. He is only a junior like me, so he should start acting like one.
    You are a silly ignorant asskiss. Why don't you quit your sniveling and grow up because just given what you have posted so far you shouldn't even be driving let alone in any type of emergency response situation. You want to be a firefighter? learn to be a man first Do you know where every dipstick on every engine is? Tank level gauge? Can you even bunk up and don an SCBA in time allowed? Run along and go tell Mommy how the meanies ****ed on your parade now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miller337 View Post
    You are a silly ignorant asskiss. Why don't you quit your sniveling and grow up because just given what you have posted so far you shouldn't even be driving let alone in any type of emergency response situation. You want to be a firefighter? learn to be a man first Do you know where every dipstick on every engine is? Tank level gauge? Can you even bunk up and don an SCBA in time allowed? Run along and go tell Mommy how the meanies ****ed on your parade now.
    Funny you should ask that. At our station, our juniors do weekly truck checks before drill might starts and that includes checking all the engine fluid levels. Also, during our SCBA confidence course..... I was the top ranking junior for completing the course in the shortest amount of time and suiting up in all my gear and SCBA in just 50 seconds. I think that it pretty good for a junior.... And I know a lot of other people would say the same to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennfirefighter View Post
    But then again..... I don't want to make a jack *** out of myself by reporting him to his chief if there is nothing wrong and no laws about with him using them
    Report all observed to the chief, from there it is his job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Report all observed to the chief, from there it is his job.
    Thank you for your answer fire49. I will take your advise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennfirefighter View Post
    I was the top ranking junior for completing the course in the shortest amount of time and suiting up in all my gear and SCBA in just 50 seconds. I think that it pretty good for a junior.... And I know a lot of other people would say the same to.
    That's nice- you're still as useless as tits on a bull.
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