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Thread: Way to go, genius...

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    The stalker Re-Appears...THE SEQUEL!
    The stalker Re-Appears...THE SECOND SEQUEL!

    Thanks for not disagreeing with me regarding LAFE.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    John, can I introduce you to LAFE? He's okay with it. Yup, he's stupid enough to believe it should be permitted.
    Ya know, the LA bashing is getting quite old. A lot of us don't agree with him on a lot of stuff, move on.
    There would be half the posts on this forum and probably twice as many people visiting without all the LAFE BS.
    The52nd likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Ya know, the LA bashing is getting quite old. A lot of us don't agree with him on a lot of stuff, move on.
    There would be half the posts on this forum and probably twice as many people visiting without all the LAFE BS.
    I couldn't agree more. I can disagree with LA without resorting to just bashing him personally.
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    back to the originally scheduled discussion:
    Have they arraigned this clown in Court yet?
    When does he get sued by the municipality for damages?
    When do they take away his secret decoder ring with the keys to the station bar?
    When do they send him to Rahway?

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    It's NJ....

    I have seen DUI cases take a year before getting to court.
    Won't be any lawsuits till after the court decision.
    Unknown if the station bar was involved at all, so may never take away his secret decoder ring.
    Probably won't ever go to Rahway. IF his first offense, loss of license for up to 6 months.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    John, can I introduce you to LAFE? He's okay with it. Yup, he's stupid enough to believe it should be permitted.
    I never said that I endorsed the concept of bars in firehouses, but I fully understand that in some places it's the culture, and yes, it's part of recruitment "perks", especially for social members that may not be involved in firefighting but use the bar for business, entertainment and social purposes. And in other places, it's a revenue stream.

    I'll repeat myself again ..... If the idea was brought up to allow drinking or serve drinks at the station at either of my current departments, I would oppose it. That being said, I understand, that there are places where it occurs, and if they have controls in place, I am not going to tell another organization that they should not do it.

    By the way, what about members taking over the counter cough and sleeping medications with significant side affects that are responding?
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-28-2014 at 09:49 AM.
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    When is the last time a firefighter wrecked a ladder truck because he drank a couple of bottles of NyQuil?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVFD705 View Post
    When is the last time a firefighter wrecked a ladder truck because he drank a couple of bottles of NyQuil?
    It doesn't anymore, but NyQuil used to contain 25% alcohol. Part of the reason it knocked people out and let them sleep through the night. So in the old days a couple of bottles of NyQuil probably could have gotten some people quite a buzz.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WVFD705 View Post
    When is the last time a firefighter wrecked a ladder truck because he drank a couple of bottles of NyQuil?
    My point is that at any given time there are likely members responding who are altered due to over the counter medications.

    Is that a serious issue?
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    Are they wrecking equipment? Getting people injured or killed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVFD705 View Post
    Are they wrecking equipment? Getting people injured or killed?
    Are they tested for that?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Are they tested for that?
    I would bet that far more often than not, the answer is no.

    I have no issues in agreeing that members responding under the influence of alcohol is an issue, primarily in the volunteer service, and the vast majority of those consumed the drinks at home, at the bar down the street or from the cooler at the softball game.

    However, I would dare say that there are an equal number of volunteers responding impaired due to either over the counter or prescription medications. And it wouldn't surprise me if there were a fair number of career members in the same situation.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVFD705 View Post
    Are they wrecking equipment? Getting people injured or killed?
    probably not , I doubt any one who had two beers after mowing the yard has either, but if you are going for zero tolerance , alcohol is alcohol regardless of medicinal or recreational.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVFD705 View Post
    When is the last time a firefighter wrecked a ladder truck because he drank a couple of bottles of NyQuil?
    There are plenty of OTC meds that carry the caveat "do not operate heavy machinery." As noted, they don't always test for such substances in the case of an accident, unless the driver is showing clear signs that he's impaired. Since such meds don't leave a telltale odor like alcohol, such impairment might be easy to miss.

    So the answer to the question may be a larger number than some people imagine.

    If I'm involved in an accident on the railroad, they're going to run a pretty diverse drug test on me. And that OTC allergy med I took could get me in trouble.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I would bet that far more often than not, the answer is no.

    I have no issues in agreeing that members responding under the influence of alcohol is an issue, primarily in the volunteer service, and the vast majority of those consumed the drinks at home, at the bar down the street or from the cooler at the softball game.

    However, I would dare say that there are an equal number of volunteers responding impaired due to either over the counter or prescription medications. And it wouldn't surprise me if there were a fair number of career members in the same situation.
    I don't buy that OTC meds are much of a problem.

    If you are talking prescription meds, I might buy that. Oxycodone and hydrocodone are mighty popular these days for abusers, as are some other forms of prescription meds. The ones with the side effects seem popular for recreational users because of the side effects.

    My thoughts are if someone is having to take serious prescription meds like that, they probably aren't physically well enough to respond to calls. If the drugs are taken recreationally instead of by prescription, then that is the same as taking any other type of prohibited drug. That person doesn't need to be a firefighter any more.

    The difference here is there isn't a pharmacy in the fire hall. A wreck doesn't mean the city council is having to discuss whether they should or shouldn't be dispensing oxycodone on the same grounds as they keep their ladder truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    back to the originally scheduled discussion:
    Have they arraigned this clown in Court yet?
    When does he get sued by the municipality for damages?
    When do they take away his secret decoder ring with the keys to the station bar?
    When do they send him to Rahway?
    Thinking more about this....

    Truck would normally require CDL to operate, but in NJ, FF's are exempt from that.

    IF they penalize him according to CDL rules instead of normal licenses....it will be worse punishments.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVFD705 View Post
    I don't buy that OTC meds are much of a problem.

    If you are talking prescription meds, I might buy that. Oxycodone and hydrocodone are mighty popular these days for abusers, as are some other forms of prescription meds. The ones with the side effects seem popular for recreational users because of the side effects.

    My thoughts are if someone is having to take serious prescription meds like that, they probably aren't physically well enough to respond to calls. If the drugs are taken recreationally instead of by prescription, then that is the same as taking any other type of prohibited drug. That person doesn't need to be a firefighter any more.

    The difference here is there isn't a pharmacy in the fire hall. A wreck doesn't mean the city council is having to discuss whether they should or shouldn't be dispensing oxycodone on the same grounds as they keep their ladder truck.
    Benedryl is great for putting yourself to sleep, and that's an OTC med. And different people react differently to medications. So it is very possible for an OTC med to affect some people like a stronger prescription drug. It's very hard to determine how often this happens however. But I bet it's more often that we think, it's just not easy to recognize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    love this quote from one of the stories online news:
    "The Lodi Council adopted an ordinance in November 2012 that restricted drinking at firehouses to special occasions, like regularly scheduled firefighter meetings and certain social events.

    Can't believe that there are still bars with fire apparatus parked out back in 2014.
    my department has a bar but we have SOPs in place that prevent this type of thing from happening

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemanmatt1 View Post
    my department has a bar but we have SOPs in place that prevent this type of thing from happening
    Controls, policies and enforcement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemanmatt1 View Post
    my department has a bar but we have SOPs in place that prevent this type of thing from happening
    SOP's get violated all the time...There was already a LAW that said you can't drive drunk...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firemanmatt1 View Post
    my department has a bar but we have SOPs in place that prevent this type of thing from happening
    my point in that quote was "The Lodi Council adopted an ordinance in November 2012 that restricted drinking at firehouses to special occasions, like regularly scheduled firefighter meetings ."

    It's OK to drink at regularly scheduled Firefighter meetings.

    What controls do your SOP's place on using the station Bar?
    Who is the enforcer?
    What are the consequences ?
    Is there an 8 hour rule in place in the SOP's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    my point in that quote was "The Lodi Council adopted an ordinance in November 2012 that restricted drinking at firehouses to special occasions, like regularly scheduled firefighter meetings ."

    It's OK to drink at regularly scheduled Firefighter meetings.

    What controls do your SOP's place on using the station Bar?
    Who is the enforcer?
    What are the consequences ?
    Is there an 8 hour rule in place in the SOP's?
    Obviously in this incident, those controls were not enforced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I never said that I endorsed the concept of bars in firehouses, but I fully understand that in some places it's the culture, and yes, it's part of recruitment "perks", especially for social members that may not be involved in firefighting but use the bar for business, entertainment and social purposes. And in other places, it's a revenue stream.

    I'll repeat myself again ..... If the idea was brought up to allow drinking or serve drinks at the station at either of my current departments, I would oppose it. That being said, I understand, that there are places where it occurs, and if they have controls in place, I am not going to tell another organization that they should not do it.

    By the way, what about members taking over the counter cough and sleeping medications with significant side affects that are responding?
    Thank you for proving my point. Let me help you. In a professional environment, alcohol has no place. Not the office, the police station, or the firehouse. The only groups that even remotely believe this is okay are the reason why many in the US consider the fire service a joke.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    yawn ----------------
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    yawn ----------------
    Too true. But when all he is a one trick pony I suppose he has to go with what he has.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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