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  1. #1
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    Default Non-Collapsible Rubber Hose for Interior Operations

    Hey Guys, got a question for you guys.

    If any of you have seen other posts by me, you know of my issues with my volunteer department here. Particularly since the merger of two brigades, a former captain of the other (The station that has the urban pumper), has been arguing the point on every single thing, from having visors on helmets (Which he believes is dangerous), to having power tools on the trucks.

    Our SOP for a single storey dwelling, which is our most common type of property around here, is to deploy a hose line (Two 30m hoses), usually all the houses we deal with the appliance is sitting relatively close to the house and 60m is sufficient. In a test run we did, the crews were able to get a team through the front door over 5 minutes after arrival, of which most of the time was fiddling with hoses. I was somewhat appalled but we didn't want to be "those guys coming from the other brigade and telling us what to do".

    On the back of the urban pumper is a 60m non-collapsible rubber hose that is permanently in the on position. Im trying to argue that it would be a better choice for our first line in to be the "live reel" (thats what they are called over here), as its the same length and would take seconds to deploy. I know its going to be a massive fight, because everything else is. I was wondering if there are any legitimate reasons not to use it? The only one I can think of is that it is a little smaller in diameter than our normal attack lines, meaning less volume for the same pressure. On the flip side I see quicker deployment, no coupling in the middle to snag and an easier to handle hose.

    But I know that I know nothing comparative to most of the people here (Even though Im reasonable confident I know more than most of our brigade, but the standards not exactly high. I heard one old, higher ranking member explaining to some new members that offensive firefighting is pointless and dangerous, and "most fire services are phasing it out in favour of defensive firefighting, which is something any firefighter could have told them"), so I'm hoping you guys can help me out if theres something I am missing.

    Sorry for the half-rant guys,

    Griskard


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    I can only assume that the way you folks do things is so far from the typical American fire response that most haven't posted. We tend to use preconnected hosebeds. Even if the lat piece must be broken and hooked to the discharge. More common in suburban and rural areas are "fixed" length preconnected lines.

    I have no frame of reference for 30m or 60m hose sizes, but we tend to put the most emphasis on the gpm (lpm?) flow when determining which size line is sent through the door. I don't think 180 gpm non-collapsible hose is a common thing here, and again, due to the heavy use of preconnects, there's likely little call for them?

    In the end, the flow and the speed at which they can be deployed should be significant factors in determining what how an engine should be set up.

  3. #3
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    Sounds like you need to concentrate on becoming more efficient at stretching of hose lines. Five minutes after arrival is too long for the relatively short stretch you describe. Practice, practice, practice. Maybe it's time to rethink your policies on how and where you carry your hose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Sounds like you need to concentrate on becoming more efficient at stretching of hose lines. Five minutes after arrival is too long for the relatively short stretch you describe. Practice, practice, practice. Maybe it's time to rethink your policies on how and where you carry your hose?
    Thanks for the replies.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the things you guys are suggesting, however the brigades culture is frankly terrible. We have made several attempts to start a training night specifically for offensive firefighting, however they were squished by the captain and a majority of the officers due to fear it would create a clique, those who want to train and those who don't.

    I left out most of the best parts about that 5 minute after arrival thing. They did get hose lines operating, however some were literally only hose lines, no branch. The entry team also had their hoses turned off while inside, for some unknown reason.

    Realistically, I'm not yet in a position to do much about any of this. The culture is self-sustaining and the two vying kingdoms are both retarded. One is the Captain's side, who are of the belief that if you have experience you don't need to train, and are very laidback about everything, and the other is a former captains group who is very dogmatic about his ideas, but they are all terrible, outdated, stupid and dangerous.

    Of the officer pool, there is one who is very much pro-reformation, however he is viewed as a loose cannon by both sides, and an older officer who shares the beliefs, however he is unwilling to "rock the boat" too much due to his friendships with older members. Theres a smaller group of us newer members who also support them.

    Trying to avoid another rant, but I'm just trying to explain why I was asking. Essentially its impossible at this time for us to implement major changes that are absolutely necessary, but what I'm trying to do is change out terrible operating 'standards' for better ones. So over time, perhaps they will all add up.

    What I was specifically asking about was the hose itself, I have heard a few people already tell me that because its a rubberised hose it won't handle the interior temperatures well. This doesn't make sense to me, apart from being water filled, lots of the things we wear inside are rubber too and they don't generally melt. I was wondering if anyone had any specific insight on it because outside of this forum its pretty hard to find accurate information for firefighters.

    Oh and the 30 and 60m were lengths not diameters, or 100 and 200 feet respectively. The 180GPM Non-Collapsible hose sounds like the same thing as I am talking about, basically, theres no reason (Other than having better options) not to use it?

    Sorry for being a bit of a pain, haha.

  5. #5
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    As far as the hose not standing up to the temperature, its not the ambient temperature in the space, but the time laying over hot embers and heated objects that might make an issue. Typically the stuff we wear doesn't stay in contact with anything for long, especially if it's real hot! But I'll readily admit I have no knowledge of the heat resistance of rubberized hose vs. traditional woven jacket (which we have ruined numerous lengths of over the years).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griskard View Post
    Thanks for the replies.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the things you guys are suggesting, however the brigades culture is frankly terrible. We have made several attempts to start a training night specifically for offensive firefighting, however they were squished by the captain and a majority of the officers due to fear it would create a clique, those who want to train and those who don't.

    I left out most of the best parts about that 5 minute after arrival thing. They did get hose lines operating, however some were literally only hose lines, no branch. The entry team also had their hoses turned off while inside, for some unknown reason.

    Realistically, I'm not yet in a position to do much about any of this. The culture is self-sustaining and the two vying kingdoms are both retarded. One is the Captain's side, who are of the belief that if you have experience you don't need to train, and are very laidback about everything, and the other is a former captains group who is very dogmatic about his ideas, but they are all terrible, outdated, stupid and dangerous.

    Of the officer pool, there is one who is very much pro-reformation, however he is viewed as a loose cannon by both sides, and an older officer who shares the beliefs, however he is unwilling to "rock the boat" too much due to his friendships with older members. Theres a smaller group of us newer members who also support them.

    Trying to avoid another rant, but I'm just trying to explain why I was asking. Essentially its impossible at this time for us to implement major changes that are absolutely necessary, but what I'm trying to do is change out terrible operating 'standards' for better ones. So over time, perhaps they will all add up.

    What I was specifically asking about was the hose itself, I have heard a few people already tell me that because its a rubberised hose it won't handle the interior temperatures well. This doesn't make sense to me, apart from being water filled, lots of the things we wear inside are rubber too and they don't generally melt. I was wondering if anyone had any specific insight on it because outside of this forum its pretty hard to find accurate information for firefighters.

    Oh and the 30 and 60m were lengths not diameters, or 100 and 200 feet respectively. The 180GPM Non-Collapsible hose sounds like the same thing as I am talking about, basically, theres no reason (Other than having better options) not to use it?

    Sorry for being a bit of a pain, haha.
    Just a question are you in the USA or somewhere else???

    May better help answer the question

  7. #7
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Just a question are you in the USA or somewhere else???

    May better help answer the question
    I would guess not in the US and with rolled hose and metric measurements I would guess England or Europe somewhere.

    By the way 30 meters is about 1 1/2 feet shy of 100 feet and 60 meters is about 3 feet shy of 200 feet. A meter is 39.37 inches. (Yeah I paid attention 45 years ago when they told us in the next 5 years we would be metric. 25.4 mm equals an inch 2.54 cm equals an inch, all that and more essentially useless information clogging my brain.)
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  8. #8
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Just a question are you in the USA or somewhere else???
    Seriously? Are you in the fire service by choice or only because the police clearly wouldn't take you.....
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  9. #9
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Seriously? Are you in the fire service by choice or only because the police clearly wouldn't take you.....
    Holy Crap Dude! talk about a BURN!!
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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