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Thread: Bowe Bergdahl Is Freed

  1. #26
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    Score!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Score!!!!!!
    Which ones?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Bergdahl was a name that stuck in my mind so when my wife first told me he was released I wanted to make sure I was thinking about the right person. I recalled his name from when he was accused in 2009 of walking away from his post. Quite a bit of information has been coming out. I'm on vacation and had time to watch some news, MSNBC, CNN and FOX. What I find most interesting is that even MSNBC, who I consider to be left wing, is starting to question the trade.

    I'm not going to attack his parents but I have observed that usually the child is the product of the parents views. Not always, but often. As for the Dad learning Pastu, of all the parents that had POW children in our history, how many learned to speak the language of the enemy that held their loved ones prisoner? I don't think many if any.

    Here's the information as I understand it. Bergdahl left the COB he was on. Was it by choice or force? All his sensitive items (weapon, body armor, etc.) were left behind. This was a small outpost. If he was taken by force it would make sense that he would have his equipment with him, especially since you always have your weapon close. If you had tried to forcibly abduct me while I was in Iraq there would be yelling, there would be a commotion, there would be blood and most likely at least one body (mine or theirs). If you are being captured you are literally fighting for your life because once you are captured you have no control. If I was capturing a prisoner and he had a weapon I sure as hell wouldn't leave it behind to be used against me.

    What I love most are the headlines stating "Bergdahl was caged and tortured". Do you think the Hanoi Hilton was actually a hotel? Have you forgotten the shape that Lynch and her comrades were in when they were rescued? One of that units soldiers would sing Toby Keith's "Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue" at the top of his lungs to **** their captors off and stop the abuse of his fellow soldiers. Of course then they focused on him, but that is what true Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen do, they stand by their fellow service member and help carry their burden. That is why no person in their right mind wants to be a POW. You are going to be caged, you are going to be beaten, you are going to be tortured, you will probably be broken regardless of how much you resist and you will most likely suffer permanent physical damage, not to mention mental anguish. That's if you live.

    I caught the interview with six of his former platoon members on Fox. Right wing source I know, but the questions were asked. Every one of them thought he had deserted. Every one of them wanted him to face Uniform Code of Military Justice action. When asked they also admitted they were "encouraged" not to speak about the situation while on active duty and preferably not until he was home. They also admitted, without being asked, that they wanted the truth to come out. As difficult as it may be to believe, perhaps they are being honorable and telling the truth to try and stop political games that dishonor their fellow service members and their memory.

    Perhaps many missed it during that interview but when Bergdahl went missing their entire mission changed from "hearts and minds, helping the Afghans" to finding him. How much did that hinder the original mission? How much did that set our operations of helping the Afghans in that part of the country back?

    If we pulled out of Afghanistan and ceased military operations in that country and the trade occurred this wouldn't be an issue. The fact that this trade was done while we are still at war is the issue. Until now the US had maintained a simple, but very firm, policy of not negotiating with terrorist. This sounds crass but as soon as you start negotiating with terrorist you have established that you are a whore, now you are simply negotiating the fee. As soon as the administration traded 5 Gitmo detainees for 1 American the price had been set. If our enemy is able to capture another American the ransom will be at least 5 Gitmo detainees, possibly more. With that information our enemy is encouraged, by the administrations actions, to capture Americans, not wound or kill them.

    Here's something that has truly been puzzling me. There were several video's of Bergdahl released over the years. In some he was in ACU's, in at least one he was in an Army PT uniform and others he was in traditional Afghan dress. When he left post (by force or choice) it would make sense he was in uniform, most likely ACU's. What was he doing with a Army PT uniform in the far reaches of Afghanistan? Can't help but wonder if he took it with him because why would his captors give it to him?

    From the information I have gotten it appears Bergdahl abandoned his post and his fellow service members. Not everyone in uniform serves honorably and the truth is usually borne out. His choice to leave put everyone else, beyond just those at his COB, in additional danger. It has been reported that six people died searching for him. The platoon members interviewed could not honestly state that those deaths were direct result of Bergdahl's choices and I feel this is an honest assessment.

    For those of you who may not have served in the military this is the best analogy I can give. Bergdahl was part of the hose team protecting the stairs while you searched the floor above the fire. He left that attack team short handed, abandoning them and you. When he chose to leave the fire scene he didn't tell anyone. When is absence was noted the entire operation transitioned to the top priority being to find him. While the RIT crews were searching for him six were killed. Now the governor wants to treat him as a hero when he shows back up five years later.

    The trade for Bergdahl was strictly political in an attempt to gain positive press for the administration and it has backfired. Now the administration has to try and recover from it.

    How do we move on from here? Get Bergdahl debriefed, give him the help that any former POW in this situation deserves and continue to conduct an investigation into what truly transpired. Then if the investigation's findings indicate, have him face UCMJ justice. If he chose to desert he needs to have no mercy shown since he deserted his country, fellow service members, his duty and his Army values during a time of war. Dishonorably discharge him and give the state of Kansas another resident.

    To be clear, these views are mine and mine alone. They do not represent any organization, affiliation or anyone else other than me.

    Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    None which changes the disgusting behavior conservatives are exhibiting towards the Bergdahls.
    Are you not disgusted by the DEM's that are doing the same thing?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    I'm not going to attack his parents but I have observed that usually the child is the product of the parents views. Not always, but often. As for the Dad learning Pastu, of all the parents that had POW children in our history, how many learned to speak the language of the enemy that held their loved ones prisoner? I don't think many if any.
    Who cares? The father of the Marine being held in Mexico speaks fluent Farsi. Should I be suspicious of him as well. And there are a whole lot of questions about that incident as well that don't jive with that Marine's story.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    The trade for Bergdahl was strictly political in an attempt to gain positive press for the administration and it has backfired. Now the administration has to try and recover from it.
    At least we got something for releasing these five individuals. Bush released hundreds of detainees and we received nothing in return. The detainees we traded for Bergdahl have never been charged and could never stand trial in the US because they were tortured.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    How do we move on from here? Get Bergdahl debriefed, give him the help that any former POW in this situation deserves and continue to conduct an investigation into what truly transpired. Then if the investigation's findings indicate, have him face UCMJ justice. If he chose to desert he needs to have no mercy shown since he deserted his country, fellow service members, his duty and his Army values during a time of war. Dishonorably discharge him and give the state of Kansas another resident.
    Good point. The JCS Chair stated as such in his release. That Bergdahl is "Like any American, he is innocent until proven guilty. Our Army’s leaders will not look away from misconduct if it occurred."

    So far all we have is rumor and hearsay. That includes the statements from his former comrades. Sadly, he and his family are being tried in the media with conservative outlets screaming the loudest about his guilt before due process has been allowed take its course.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Well said...FFWALT.
    Respectfully,
    Jay Dudley
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    scfire86,

    You do realize that the Marine imprisoned in Mexico is a completely different issue right? We are not at war with Mexico. His father speaking fluent Farsi is irrelevant to this discussion but since you brought that up. First, I doubt there is much Farsi spoken in Mexico, if memory serves me correctly the majority of Central America speaks various dialects of Spanish. Second, even if Farsi was the language spoken in Mexico, one does not learn it, much less become fluent in two months.

    I want to make sure I understand your point about detainees previously released. You're upset because they were captured (arrested) due to their actions or associations, debriefed (questioned) and based upon what information they provided and we were able to obtain (tried) and then released instead of imprisoned you have a problem with it? Sounds a lot like our legal system. The five individuals in question went through the same process and were essentially found guilty because they were and continue to be a significant threat to the United States. They are true enemy combatants that should have never been released until after we had pulled out of Afghanistan.

    Previously you referred to his fellow service members who spoke out against him as "hostile". What information lead you to believe that?

    Something else to consider, when Bergdahl went missing there was an investigation into the events that transpired. A lot harder questions were asked then than are being asked now in the news. The missing piece of the entire investigation was Bergdahl. In the near future the investigation that started 5 years ago will finally be completed.

    One last question for you scfire86, out of curiosity, have you ever served in the military?

    Walt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    scfire86,

    You do realize that the Marine imprisoned in Mexico is a completely different issue right? We are not at war with Mexico. His father speaking fluent Farsi is irrelevant to this discussion but since you brought that up. First, I doubt there is much Farsi spoken in Mexico, if memory serves me correctly the majority of Central America speaks various dialects of Spanish. Second, even if Farsi was the language spoken in Mexico, one does not learn it, much less become fluent in two months.
    I understand that completely. Could you tell that to the conservatives clamoring for the Obama Administration to secure his release? Never mind the fact that he went to Mexico on his own (as opposed to Bergdahl who was sent to Afghanistan by his country) and broke Mexican law.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    I want to make sure I understand your point about detainees previously released. You're upset because they were captured (arrested) due to their actions or associations, debriefed (questioned) and based upon what information they provided and we were able to obtain (tried) and then released instead of imprisoned you have a problem with it? Sounds a lot like our legal system. The five individuals in question went through the same process and were essentially found guilty because they were and continue to be a significant threat to the United States. They are true enemy combatants that should have never been released until after we had pulled out of Afghanistan.
    Uhhh....not exactly. The five individuals have never been charged with any crimes. The irony being that any statements they might have given during interrogation are probably inadmissible if any of them were waterboarded. This isn't the first time in our nation's history a POW has been traded for detainees.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    Previously you referred to his fellow service members who spoke out against him as "hostile". What information lead you to believe that?
    Their current statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    Something else to consider, when Bergdahl went missing there was an investigation into the events that transpired. A lot harder questions were asked then than are being asked now in the news. The missing piece of the entire investigation was Bergdahl. In the near future the investigation that started 5 years ago will finally be completed.
    True. It's why I believe he is innocent till proven guilty. We don't have his side of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by FFWALT View Post
    One last question for you scfire86, out of curiosity, have you ever served in the military?

    Walt.
    Yes.

    One last point. It wasn't that long ago GOP lawmakers and pundits were demanding the Administration "do all it can" to secure Bergdahl's release. Sen. Cruz said he would have used military force to free Bergdahl. All that changed overnight when his release was finally obtained. Did those conservative individuals not know about the details of Bergdahl's captivity prior to last weekend?

    What is truly disgusting are the threats Bergdahl's parents are getting. This is the ugly underbelly of the conservative movement being directed against other Americans. A military family at that.
    Last edited by scfire86; 06-08-2014 at 11:50 AM.
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    Good point. The JCS Chair stated as such in his release. That Bergdahl is "Like any American, he is innocent until proven guilty. Our Army’s leaders will not look away from misconduct if it occurred."



    And who is the jcs boss



    ""The detainees we traded for Bergdahl have never been charged and could never stand trial in the US because they were tortured.""



    Bergdahl????????
    Last edited by fire49; 06-08-2014 at 01:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    And who is the jcs boss
    Is there a point? Or you don't believe that is an accurate statement? Especially considering the irony that Dempsey has committed all of his entire adult life to protecting that basic American right, amongst many others.

    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    Bergdahl????????
    Nope the detainees we traded for him.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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