1. #1
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    Default Taking physical agility test while Active Duty

    Hello my name is John, I'm 21 years old and currently Active Duty in the US Army. Question for all you fellow vets out there. I recently applied to a local department back home and am set to take their written exam this July. However, their physical agility tests are scheduled for the August-September time frame. I am not sure if I will be able to make it home for the physical test due to training.

    Is there any laws/rules/regulations that require a department to make exceptions for active duty military members trying to test with them? Whether that be allowing me to take the physical at an earlier/later date, or at another time when I am able to make it home on leave or once I ETS and am back home for good? I know this department has conducted interviews over the phone with guys currently deployed in the past. I contacted the department and they said there are no laws/rules regarding this, I am just double tapping the subject with fellow vets or anyone else that may have an answer.

    Any information on this topic would be greatly appreciated!

    Thank you, stay safe.
    Last edited by SPFD7; 06-05-2014 at 05:54 PM.

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    more than likely NO!!!!

    what is your seperation date????

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    My ETS is September 2015, however I plan on separating early around June-July 2015 for school, if not school by using my terminal leave.

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    So you are getting out in July

    Can you make the written test date ??

    After that what is the problem

    You know to test everywhere and often??


    What state are you trying to work in ???

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    Check your states laws, but yes most states by law give returning service members make up tests when they return from active duty.

    For example:
    Massachusetts: http://www.mass.gov/anf/employment-e...military-info/

    New York:http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/MIL/11/243-b

    Nearly every state has laws like these, talk to you states Veteran's department, or labor department and get the answer. If this FD tells you they will not give you a make up exam, they are most likely uninformed, or just giving you a load of BS. Don't miss out on a job just because the Chief wants to hire his son and is willing to screw over a veteran for it.

    As a fellow returning vet I can tell you, you need to be your own advocate. Some HR departments won't realize they do offer veterans credits and that can ruin you on a written test. If you have a service related disability, make your claim with the VA and you should receive additional points on tests. Most states give 5 for veterans, 10 for disabled vets. Bottom line, know the law and use it to your favor. You earned the status of being a veteran, get everything you've earned now.

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    You might read all the fine print

    Suggest waiting to test till you are very near out or out

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    Quote Originally Posted by somebuffyguy View Post
    Check your states laws, but yes most states by law give returning service members make up tests when they return from active duty.

    For example:
    Massachusetts: http://www.mass.gov/anf/employment-e...military-info/

    New York:http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/MIL/11/243-b

    Nearly every state has laws like these, talk to you states Veteran's department, or labor department and get the answer. If this FD tells you they will not give you a make up exam, they are most likely uninformed, or just giving you a load of BS. Don't miss out on a job just because the Chief wants to hire his son and is willing to screw over a veteran for it.

    As a fellow returning vet I can tell you, you need to be your own advocate. Some HR departments won't realize they do offer veterans credits and that can ruin you on a written test. If you have a service related disability, make your claim with the VA and you should receive additional points on tests. Most states give 5 for veterans, 10 for disabled vets. Bottom line, know the law and use it to your favor. You earned the status of being a veteran, get everything you've earned now.

    Well said! Fight for what you've (we've) earned! Most big cities will have it posted on their webpages, but like somebuffyguy said you might have to do a little digging.

    Some more advice, MAKE SURE YOU ARE CLEAR THAT YOU ARE GETTING OUT!
    If they think you still have a commitment you might as well walk into an interview wearing a sign that says "Don't hire me!"

    I'm an OEF Vet myself (2010-2011) been testing since 2007. As soon as I mention I'm in the Nasty Guard I somehow "Don't meet the minimum requirements..." or am "Not selected to move on to the next phase..."
    Funny, when I've made it to every oral or Chief's interview I've ever applied for....

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHawkDriver View Post
    I'm an OEF Vet myself (2010-2011) been testing since 2007. As soon as I mention I'm in the Nasty Guard I somehow "Don't meet the minimum requirements..." or am "Not selected to move on to the next phase..."
    Funny, when I've made it to every oral or Chief's interview I've ever applied for....
    No offence, but I wound't be very keen on hiring a guy that might still get deployed. You gotta look at it from their POV. Although I do think they should be up from with you about that, if it is indeed the reason.

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    can't you request liberty with your command?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KDRX View Post
    can't you request liberty with your command?
    That's navy

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    fire49 yes I can make the written test date for sure, that is this JUL 2014. The problem is making the physical test dates in AUG-SEP 2014 time frame. I do know to test everywhere and often, this is my dream department and will be a very good list to be on. The state of Minnesota.

    somebuffguy I will most certainly look up my state laws and get in contact with someone who knows more about vets and such. I am aware of vets preference but will not be able to use those until I am officially discharged unfortunately as this department requires my DD Form 214. This department I'm applying with offers 10 for vets, 15 for disabled vets and I fully intend on using them once discharged. I completely agree with how I will have to do my own research and be my own advocate, I truly appreciate the advice thank you. I'll post an update as soon as I find out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD7 View Post
    fire49 yes I can make the written test date for sure, that is this JUL 2014. The problem is making the physical test dates in AUG-SEP 2014 time frame. I do know to test everywhere and often, this is my dream department and will be a very good list to be on. The state of Minnesota.

    somebuffguy I will most certainly look up my state laws and get in contact with someone who knows more about vets and such. I am aware of vets preference but will not be able to use those until I am officially discharged unfortunately as this department requires my DD Form 214. This department I'm applying with offers 10 for vets, 15 for disabled vets and I fully intend on using them once discharged. I completely agree with how I will have to do my own research and be my own advocate, I truly appreciate the advice thank you. I'll post an update as soon as I find out.

    Ok you do the written in July

    You think you will be out in July

    Why can't you take the physical when scheduled ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD7 View Post
    I am aware of vets preference but will not be able to use those until I am officially discharged unfortunately as this department requires my DD Form 214.
    Nope! You should be able to get veterans preference while active duty, either by sending them a photocopy of your ID or a letter from your command stating you have no misconduct on your record and expect to be honorably discharged. They might SAY they require a DD214, because most departments don't even think of applicants who are active duty. Again, find out what the law is but you should qualify for veterans pref.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Bourbonstreet View Post
    No offence, but I wound't be very keen on hiring a guy that might still get deployed. You gotta look at it from their POV. Although I do think they should be up from with you about that, if it is indeed the reason.
    That is considered discrimination. Not hiring someone due to their military affiliation and potential to deploy is downright discrimination. Its often difficult to prove as an employer will say "oh well you don't meet what we're looking for", but not hiring a reservist or national guard member is the same as not hiring a woman because they may become pregnant.

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    Even as an Army Reservist I have missed out on Testing due to training. It happens nothing you can do about it. They do not have to make special considerations for you. Just keep testing and test everywhere! Good luck!

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    I do the written this July, I will not get out until NEXT July 2015. There's a possibility I will not be able to take the physical when scheduled because I will be at conducting training at another base around that time frame of AUG-SEP 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD7 View Post
    I do the written this July, I will not get out until NEXT July 2015. There's a possibility I will not be able to take the physical when scheduled because I will be at conducting training at another base around that time frame of AUG-SEP 2014.
    Ohhh


    Same advice wait till you get out or very close

    I do not think even if you jump through the hoops for a make up test ,,, it will do you any good

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    That's navy
    I was Marine infantry and could request extended libo. No guarantee I would get it and it was a huge pain in the ***, but you have the right to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by somebuffyguy View Post
    That is considered discrimination. Not hiring someone due to their military affiliation and potential to deploy is downright discrimination. Its often difficult to prove as an employer will say "oh well you don't meet what we're looking for", but not hiring a reservist or national guard member is the same as not hiring a woman because they may become pregnant.
    I see your point and it explains why they are surreptitious about the reason. However, I can still understand and accept their desire not to hire someone that might not be around for a portion of the academy, training, or to run shifts; which is the point of hiring someone in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by somebuffyguy View Post
    That is considered discrimination. Not hiring someone due to their military affiliation and potential to deploy is downright discrimination. Its often difficult to prove as an employer will say "oh well you don't meet what we're looking for", but not hiring a reservist or national guard member is the same as not hiring a woman because they may become pregnant.
    If he can't make the test he can't make the test. It doesn't matter if its for military reasons or a family reunion. Discrimination would be if they go out of there way to not hire military. In fact, one could state that it IS discrimination towards non-military candidates if they allow him to create a random day months later or before hand to the actual test so he could take the physical. Then what about the others that couldn't take the normal test date due to college, life events and the etc?

    As former active duty Army myself, I know that he cannot just miss training to go take the physical. It doesn't work that way. If they allowed people to do stuff like that nobody would be taking part in training. Leave and passes are for when there is down time. When my unit left state to go to NTC (California Desert) and so forth for a month long training exercise that is a BIG DEAL. Even the people that were "broke" at the time and couldn't do any training for injury related reasons still had to go and sit in the staging area and do details everyday while the rest of the unit was out in the middle of nowhere training.

    Thank you for your service! Something to look forward to is the GI Bill, maybe you could use that you go take some college classes, get your EMT or maybe a Fire cert or two. While it maybe your dream department there will be other departments that open up. Or maybe in the long run you could test for this department the next time they take apps. Make yourself standout! Taking college classes may help boost your scores! That 5 or 10 points doesn't mean that much when someone only scores a 70 or 80 to begin with.

    After serving active I went into the Reserves and along with what FireMedic0227 has said, I have missed testing, schools, etc because of Reserve training that I had to go to. I enjoy serving in the military but it's that time in my life where I need to evaluate what my focus is going to be. My command has asked me to change MOSs and to be honest at this time I need to worry about my civilian career and not changing my Army Reserve MOS (which I would need to change again in the long run anyways... two different AITs for the price of what???).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron123 View Post
    If he can't make the test he can't make the test. It doesn't matter if its for military reasons or a family reunion. Discrimination would be if they go out of there way to not hire military. In fact, one could state that it IS discrimination towards non-military candidates if they allow him to create a random day months later or before hand to the actual test so he could take the physical. Then what about the others that couldn't take the normal test date due to college, life events and the etc?
    I meant it was discrimination when another user posted that he wouldn't hire a reservist because they may deploy. As far as allowing a service member to retake the test, nearly every exam I've ever taken offered a military make up. Maybe its just an East coast thing, but I've never seen a civil service test not allow military make ups.

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    Glad you understand how we can't just miss training. Thankfully I'm not going back to NTC, but rather JRTC (which I hear is slightly better). I definitely plan on using the GI Bill. I already have my EMT-B cert I got in High school and maintained my cert. by becoming a 68W - Medic. I am looking to enroll in a Paramedic course once I ETS. Thanks for your service as well.

    I'm still researching around looking for some law/reg/statute stating what has been mentioned above. If anyone else wants to jump in on the search feel free, looking for info for the state of Minnesota!

    Thanks guys, be safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFD7 View Post
    Glad you understand how we can't just miss training.
    And if this training or deploying took away from the fire department training or operations, would it be more acceptable? in reference to somebuffguy's reply above, it's not a matter of discrimination, but a matter of you be being available to do your job.

    If I went into an interview and said that I take 9 month long sailing voyages every once and a while and would need the time off regardless of the department's needs, do you think they'd give me a job? No, but it doesn't mean they're discriminatory against sailors.

    Anyway dude, I wish you the best. I wish I had been more proactive before getting out myself.

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    This is extremely disturbing that employers, and especially members of the military don't understand there is such a thing as veterans discrimination. I can't find a federal laws right now but here is a link to Massachusetts state law clearly stating you cannot be denied employment due to military obligation.
    http://www.mass.gov/ago/consumer-res...inst-veterans/


    SPFD7, as far as Minnesota is concerned you're in luck.
    http://mn.gov/mdhr/education/articles/rs10_vetlaws.html
    According to Minnesota state law, an employer can't even ASK you if your a member of the guard/reserve. Public employers( Fire,Police etc.) can only ask military association for reasons of veterans credit. I can't find anything regarding military make ups but I'm sure its somewhere. Next chance you get call the Minnesota Department of Labor and ask, I'm sure you'll get the answer you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by somebuffyguy View Post
    SPFD7, as far as Minnesota is concerned you're in luck.
    http://mn.gov/mdhr/education/articles/rs10_vetlaws.html
    According to Minnesota state law, an employer can't even ASK you if your a member of the guard/reserve. Public employers( Fire,Police etc.) can only ask military association for reasons of veterans credit. I can't find anything regarding military make ups but I'm sure its somewhere. Next chance you get call the Minnesota Department of Labor and ask, I'm sure you'll get the answer you want.
    I definitely will give them a call as soon as I can thank you.
    As far as the link you posted I appreciate you taking your time and posting that however I am active duty not national guard or reserve.

    Thank you

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