1. #1
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    Default NFPA standards and Rope work

    So as fate would have it now that i have time to review standards My labtop is giving me ****.

    So as to my understanding ( PER CMC.com.) The only change that will truly effect the end user, of 1983-2012 edition is the change in wording from Light use to Technical use. And some standards change regarding testing for FR harnesses? Does anyone else have any input for me?

    Also while we are on the subject of 1983. Correct me if i am wrong or only partially correct, But to my understanding 1983 only dictates testing and certification standards for equipment. No where in the standard does it state a rope rescue system component must maintain a 15:1 safety ratio. Or all "beenrs" used in loads greater than 4 KN MUST be G rated, ( this is a example not saying I do)

    1006- Defines the capabilities of a rope rescue team and what training standards they shall meet.

    1670- defines the minimum standard for a rescuer to be qualified as a technician as well as defining what each JPR will be required for each disciplinary( Rope, CON-space, Mine, ect....)

    Correct? incorrect? Partially correct?

    Clear as mud?
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

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    Sounds like you are on the right track. The tech will hopefully address the gray area of rope access and other more specialized components. As for 1983, your understanding is correct. It's not a document for the user. Your department or training staff can come up with any safety ratio they want. A 2:1,10:1 whatever... You can develope different ratios for different environments etc. It just needs to be realistic and follow established norms. NFPA never tells you how to perform a task. So there's a lot of flexibility.

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    A good read is attached.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    That's a great read. I was at ITRS that year when Jim presented his NFPA paper. The Q&A afterward was great. No one could believe that NFPA didn't tell us how and when to tie our shoes. Everyone seemed to think they had to perform SSSFs and tasks a certain way because "NFPA tells us we have to." Jim's paper was refreshing because NFPA basically said - what the hell are you guys talking about, we never mentioned SSSFs anywhere for the user and we don't care how or what equipment you are using. People were freaking out. You want to single rope technique? NFPA says no problem. You only want to use light duty hardware? NFPA says, whatever. I'm exaggerating their reply of course, but still, they don't tell us anything about how to accomplish a task. Which is a GOOD thing. We don't want that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bottrigg View Post
    That's a great read. I was at ITRS that year when Jim presented his NFPA paper.
    Yep, I was at that symposium as well.

    Jim's research on the subject was mind-numbing and very much appreciated. I certainly wouldn't have had the patience to go through all those standard and compare apples to oranges and come up with coherent answers like he did..

    Mike Dunn

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    Bushwacker -

    I sit on the 1006 committee and thought I would reply to ensure you were squared away...The Kovach's paper is spot on...

    Sorry for the late reply, but you do have a couple things backwards on your post....

    First, NFPA 1983 is a manufacturer's standard and is meant as a means to standardize testing of rope rescue equipment. It really has nothing to go with you as a rescuer, other than understanding the testing the equipment goes through. Since rope rescuers work on a system safety factor basis, General or technical ratings really are neither here not there. Understanding NFPA 1983 is most important to know the equipment MBS information and classifications....Also, there is a new section for Victim Extraction Devices and the Class I harness was removed.

    NFPA 1006 is a a professional qualification standard. This is the standard that accreditation agencies use of say you are "certified" to perform rope rescue (and other disciplines in additional chapters) as a professional technical rescuer. I don't understand training companies that reference NFPA 1670...It is NOT the standard you as an individual should be getting trained against. Whoever stated it previously is correct....We don't dictate technique on the committee, only broad operational requirements. We actually changed some of the NFPA 1006 standard for the 2013 edition as some training locations were have a difficult time meeting certain line items such as ascending distances, rappel heights, and the EMT requirement was removed.

    NFPA 1670 is more of a "team capability and training" standard. If your department wants a NFPA 1670 Technician level team, then they should, as a team, be able to perform the skills in NFPA 1670. Yes, 1670 can be used as a way to keep up your NFPA 1006 skills. There is a difference though, you MUST meet NFPA 1006 first to be considered to have met the professional qualification, NOT NFPA 1670. If you are a firefighter, 1006 coincides with the other 1000 series a professional qualification...For instance NFPA 1001 is the Pro Qual for Firefighter, 1002 is the pro qual for driver/operator...etc.

    The 1006 standard is coming into cycle and is open for comments. I'd encourage anyone to make recommendations as they see ft. Believe it or not, we review and analyze all recommendations. Go tohttp://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/document-information-pages?mode=code&code=1006 for more information.

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    Bottrig -

    You really are spot on! We deliver training for military special forces units and base the training on NFPA 1006. Would you expect that we always use 1/2" rope, and steel hardware? We actually use down to 7mm speciality ropes and more mountaineering hardware than anything else. That is the beauty of NFPA 1006 that has eluded the fire service. There is no such thing as an NFPA approved technique and there really is no requirement to only use NFPA equipment. We, as a committee, recognize that everyones operational environment is different. The AHJ has to have some responsibility instating what is acceptable.

    Great post!

    Jeff

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    Great post Jeff, thanks for your input.

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