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Thread: Jrs in a burning structure in Georgia

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    Yes, I've heard of it. I would suggest that the fuel used was not the biggest problem there.
    I agree --- just with the level of incompetence we are seeing creep into the fire service. , why risk it ? And yes for years we burned furniture and contents in our training burns (abandoned houses)-- nothing will soot up a mask like a foam filled couch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I agree --- just with the level of incompetence we are seeing creep into the fire service. , why risk it ? And yes for years we burned furniture and contents in our training burns (abandoned houses)-- nothing will soot up a mask like a foam filled couch.
    I don't necessarily endorse training with hydrocarbon based fuel loads. I was just lamenting the fact that most of the fuels we use for training do not replicate real life fire ground conditions. Those who only see fire in the burn room begin to think they understand fire behavior. They do not.

    It is a real problem in the fire service. Departments with little fire activity need to do live burns to get experience. They then often don't have the experience to safely do the burn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I don't necessarily endorse training with hydrocarbon based fuel loads. I was just lamenting the fact that most of the fuels we use for training do not replicate real life fire ground conditions. Those who only see fire in the burn room begin to think they understand fire behavior. They do not.

    It is a real problem in the fire service. Departments with little fire activity need to do live burns to get experience. They then often don't have the experience to safely do the burn.
    I agree , and the best training we ever did was , im sure in direct violation of 1403 --no pre cut vent holes , windows intact , and full of junk contents. The big difference between now and then was our officers running things all had well in excess of 20 years experience in a busier time. Its kind of a catch 22 now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I agree , and the best training we ever did was , im sure in direct violation of 1403 --no pre cut vent holes , windows intact , and full of junk contents. The big difference between now and then was our officers running things all had well in excess of 20 years experience in a busier time. Its kind of a catch 22 now.
    I have said for several years that this is an issue.

    We are training our members to fight, and even more importantly ventilate, hydrocarbon based fires using Class A materials, and we are all wondering why we are killing and injuring so many members in flashovers.

    Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .

    Yes, burning hydrocarbon based fuels has it's risks, but IMO, it's just as risky, if not riskier to send members into a fire with no real world experience of what they are actually going to deal with. Is this abig issue in NYC, Detroit, Chicago or LA? No. as they will go to more fires in their first 6 months, gathering real world experience, than many rural and suburban members will go to in their first 6 years.

    But it is a big issue in a place where they may enter a working structure fire once or twice a year and the only fire experience they have before making their first entry are some pallets stuffed with hay.

    And we wonder why rural members are getting hurt in flashovers.

    Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 09-02-2014 at 02:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon_bisson View Post
    This has little relevance to the original question being asked. I respect your opinion, and I understand how some people feel about explorers, but with all do respect go rant somewhere else. This is not the place because you sound no better than a 13 or 15 year old.
    First of all, you F'd up now because your response makes you sound not a snot nosed little puke. Basically a HUGE problem with too many super hero explorers. They think they know it all and can do it all. They believe they are owed being a firefighter an have little or no interest in earning their way in like the Brothers and Sisters before them.

    Secondly, CaptOldTimer has earned more respect than you showed him. He has far more time in the fire service than you have on the planet.

    Thirdly, as a training officer on 2 POC FDs, and a fire training instructor for the tech college, there is no way any of these agencies would allow a 13 to 15 year old to go interior on a live fire training.

    Finally, let me say I believe junior and explorer programs can be a great thing. Ego and attitude get many young people in trouble today. My advice is keep yours in check and you may do just fine.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 08-29-2014 at 01:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon_bisson View Post
    I apologize for what I said, I took what you stated the wrong way
    I absolutely agree though that explorers should have a limited role at the fire scene. When I respond to a scene on a truck we are only allowed to do stuff such as packing hose, refilling SCBA's, and getting tools and water. We are not allowed to even put water on the fire let alone go into a involved structure which is strictly not allowed. During a controlled burn, my department will light a small fire in the back, maybe the size of a couch, and department members will already be in the back with a hose. Then they'll have us enter through the front with an advisor following, have us find he fire, knock it down and reset.
    Excellent apology.

    You still should NOT be doing interior firefighting, even in training, as an explorer.
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