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Thread: Jrs in a burning structure in Georgia

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    Default Jrs in a burning structure in Georgia

    Some of my friends (13 yrs old and 15yrs old) got to be in a training burn (in one of those MAERSK shipping containers) and i am wondering if there are any laws against this. I live in Georgia. What is the fine or prison time if so for letting a 13 yr old go into a burning structure if there are laws against this?
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    It is nice you id the fd you are with, so they know who is posting about them



    Not a serial killer but I do keep a sharp knife!
    MY VIEWS DO NOT REFLECT those of Line Volunteer Fire Dept. or Franklin County Fire Services


    stay out if you do not want to go in.

    did your parent sign a liabilty waver

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    Quote Originally Posted by zachtheexplorer View Post
    Some of my friends (13 yrs old and 15yrs old) got to be in a training burn (in one of those MAERSK shipping containers) and i am wondering if there are any laws against this. I live in Georgia. What is the fine or prison time if so for letting a 13 yr old go into a burning structure if there are laws against this?
    I figure OSHA will be calling your chief shortly. You definitely should have removed your department's information.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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    The fire exploring guidelines quotes that "Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved." Considering you did the burn inside a shipping container, I would assume that it was a controlled burn, which according to the guidelines which is OSHA approved, it is ok. However that is just the base nationwide guidelines for explorers. Whether or not Georgia added anything to that I am not aware of. But based of the general rules, going inside a controlled burn building such as that is allowed

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire49 View Post
    It is nice you id the fd you are with, so they know who is posting about them



    Not a serial killer but I do keep a sharp knife!
    MY VIEWS DO NOT REFLECT those of Line Volunteer Fire Dept. or Franklin County Fire Services


    stay out if you do not want to go in.

    did your parent sign a liabilty waver
    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    I figure OSHA will be calling your chief shortly. You definitely should have removed your department's information.
    This was a different department in a different county (not naming) and yes it was controlled brandon_bisson
    Not a serial killer but I do keep a sharp knife!
    MY VIEWS DO NOT REFLECT those of my department or county.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    What is missing??

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    I never saw a wild thing feel sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever feeling sorry for itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zachtheexplorer View Post
    Some of my friends (13 yrs old and 15yrs old) got to be in a training burn (in one of those MAERSK shipping containers) and i am wondering if there are any laws against this. I live in Georgia. What is the fine or prison time if so for letting a 13 yr old go into a burning structure if there are laws against this?
    A training burn in a shipping container is not a burning structure.

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    Why do you care? Jealous because you didn't get to go or something? I'm sure you're chief won't really take kindly to you going on the internet and making people look too closely at his department.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon_bisson View Post
    The fire exploring guidelines quotes that "Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved." Considering you did the burn inside a shipping container, I would assume that it was a controlled burn, which according to the guidelines which is OSHA approved, it is ok. However that is just the base nationwide guidelines for explorers. Whether or not Georgia added anything to that I am not aware of. But based of the general rules, going inside a controlled burn building such as that is allowed
    Is that a Georgia guideline or something from the department? Here in Kentucky a junior can't do live fire or ladders of any kind.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Is that a Georgia guideline or something from the department? Here in Kentucky a junior can't do live fire or ladders of any kind.
    I got this from the fire exploring website. Its just the basic guidelines for what explorers can and cannot do around the country, however, a state such as Kentucky, can add on to these guidelines and say that an explorer cannot do live fire or do ladders. I do know that states like New Hampshire, haven't added that much more to it. But whether Georgia is a state like New Hampshire that allows Explorers to participate in activities like this or is similar to the Junior Guidelines in Kentucky are I am not aware of.

    Nationwide Explorer Guidelines->http://exploring.learningforlife.org...es-guidelines/
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    BSA gives you a pretty wide berth. I would think most individual states would be tighter than that, and NFPA 1403 could give you a real headache if somebody got hurt.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by zachtheexplorer View Post
    Some of my friends (13 yrs old and 15yrs old) got to be in a training burn (in one of those MAERSK shipping containers) and i am wondering if there are any laws against this. I live in Georgia. What is the fine or prison time if so for letting a 13 yr old go into a burning structure if there are laws against this?
    13 and 15 year old's HAVE NO BUSINESS, whatsoever being involved with any live fire training, let alone going inside anything that is on fire. Mommy and Daddy can sue the mess out of this department and whoever let them do this. smh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    13 and 15 year old's HAVE NO BUSINESS, whatsoever being involved with any live fire training, let alone going inside anything that is on fire. Mommy and Daddy can sue the mess out of this department and whoever let them do this. smh.
    This has little relevance to the original question being asked. I respect your opinion, and I understand how some people feel about explorers, but with all do respect go rant somewhere else. This is not the place because you sound no better than a 13 or 15 year old.
    No Whining
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon_bisson View Post
    This has little relevance to the original question being asked. I respect your opinion, and I understand how some people feel about explorers, but with all do respect go rant somewhere else. This is not the place because you sound no better than a 13 or 15 year old.
    Oh, you done f---ed up now.
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    Here's how.

    Quote Originally Posted by brandon_bisson View Post
    This has little relevance to the original question being asked. I respect your opinion, and I understand how some people feel about explorers, but with all do respect go rant somewhere else. This is not the place because you sound no better than a 13 or 15 year old.
    The relevance is perfectly clear. A kid of 13 years old has no business inside a burn of any kind. For starters, nobody that age is mature enough to handle the situation. And even if he or she is, things go wrong all the time with mature, experienced firefighters, including in training. They get hurt. They get killed. An investigation ensues. And if that happens to someone under the age of 18, there are all kinds of problems to follow.

    The department can be sued. The individuals in charge of the training can be sued. The owner of the training prop can be sued. People can go to jail. Yes, they can.

    There's the relevance, little fella.

    And CaptOldTimer said nothing bad about explorers or juniors. He just spoke the truth, which is that it is BEYOND asinine to let juniors do actual firefighting.

    This IS the place for his "rant"--actually just a strong opinion, but I guess if you don't know "do respect" from "due respect" and "alright" from "all right", you probably can't define "rant" very accurately either.

    CaptOldTimer has 7,210 posts under his belt, and I've never seen a post of his that sounded remotely like a teenager. You have seven posts, four of them on this thread. They ALL sound like a teenager.

    Had you been around a little longer before you went off half-cocked, you would have seen that statements like CaptOldTimer made are 100% in line with the purposes of these forums.

    He's trying to inform and educate you and many others. It could save your tail.

    If this is how receptive you are to all information and education, then these forums--and the fire service--are NOT the place for you.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon_bisson View Post
    This has little relevance to the original question being asked. I respect your opinion, and I understand how some people feel about explorers, but with all do respect go rant somewhere else. This is not the place because you sound no better than a 13 or 15 year old.


    Let me make this clear sonny, I have nothing against explorers. I would not want them on the fire ground. They have a place in the fire service but allowing 13 and 15 yer old children to become active in life fire or other hazards to just plain stupid on the fire department, the instructors and those who are running this dog and pony show.

    They can do other tings on the scene like rolling hose or repacking it. I appreciate EastKyFF stepping up to the plate and pointing out the seriousness of this job and possible things that could happen.

    I've been around much longer than you my friend and know what I am talking about. Being the former chief training officer for a large urban fire department taught me a lot. That is children should not be allowed on any fire scene. My old FD has a minimum hiring age of 18, but I can count on one hand the number of individuals that were hired at that age.

    Have a good day and read these forums and take note what the older smoke eaters are saying. It may save you a lot of grief and your life on day!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Let me make this clear sonny, I have nothing against explorers. I would not want them on the fire ground. They have a place in the fire service but allowing 13 and 15 yer old children to become active in life fire or other hazards to just plain stupid on the fire department, the instructors and those who are running this dog and pony show.

    They can do other tings on the scene like rolling hose or repacking it. I appreciate EastKyFF stepping up to the plate and pointing out the seriousness of this job and possible things that could happen.

    I've been around much longer than you my friend and know what I am talking about. Being the former chief training officer for a large urban fire department taught me a lot. That is children should not be allowed on any fire scene. My old FD has a minimum hiring age of 18, but I can count on one hand the number of individuals that were hired at that age.

    Have a good day and read these forums and take note what the older smoke eaters are saying. It may save you a lot of grief and your life on day!
    I apologize for what I said, I took what you stated the wrong way
    I absolutely agree though that explorers should have a limited role at the fire scene. When I respond to a scene on a truck we are only allowed to do stuff such as packing hose, refilling SCBA's, and getting tools and water. We are not allowed to even put water on the fire let alone go into a involved structure which is strictly not allowed. During a controlled burn, my department will light a small fire in the back, maybe the size of a couch, and department members will already be in the back with a hose. Then they'll have us enter through the front with an advisor following, have us find he fire, knock it down and reset.
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    That was a close one!
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    Quote Originally Posted by brandon_bisson View Post
    I apologize for what I said, I took what you stated the wrong way
    I absolutely agree though that explorers should have a limited role at the fire scene. When I respond to a scene on a truck we are only allowed to do stuff such as packing hose, refilling SCBA's, and getting tools and water. We are not allowed to even put water on the fire let alone go into a involved structure which is strictly not allowed. During a controlled burn, my department will light a small fire in the back, maybe the size of a couch, and department members will already be in the back with a hose. Then they'll have us enter through the front with an advisor following, have us find he fire, knock it down and reset.
    I hope your controlled burn is just the SIZE of a couch and not A couch.
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    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I hope your controlled burn is just the SIZE of a couch and not A couch.
    But couches give off such nice black smoke.
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    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
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    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I hope your controlled burn is just the SIZE of a couch and not A couch.
    God forbid the training resemble reality!

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    God forbid the training resemble reality!
    hey cappy --ever hear of Lairdsville ???? --- and I am far from a safety Nazi.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    hey cappy --ever hear of Lairdsville ???? --- and I am far from a safety Nazi.
    Yes, I've heard of it. I would suggest that the fuel used was not the biggest problem there.

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