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Thread: Toyne 75 ft ladders vs Pierce 75 ft ladders

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    Default Toyne 75 ft ladders vs Pierce 75 ft ladders

    My company is looking into buying a 75 ft ladder single axel and we are looking at Toyne and Pierce I would like to know what people think about the Toyne and the Pierce

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    Who's ladder is Toyne offering to use?

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    They do have a demonstrator 75' quint that might be able to be brought to your station. Contact Chiefengineer11 on here if he does not respond, he can hook you up.
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    The demo that FWDbuff mentioned has a Spartan ERV ladder. It is now in the Pittsburgh, Pa. area. It will be moving west soon. SBLGFD contact Roger Engvall at The Fire Company in Allendale, Mich. 616 892 1552. Bshwalb22 contact Dale Derner at the factory in Breda, Ia. at 800 648 3358 or National Sales Manager Mike Watts at 712 830 0451.
    Last edited by chiefengineer11; 08-15-2014 at 08:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bschwalb22 View Post
    My company is looking into buying a 75 ft ladder single axel and we are looking at Toyne and Pierce I would like to know what people think about the Toyne and the Pierce
    Depending on what you are going to carry on this ride, weight of equipment, you will be better off with duels on the rear for better stability and breaking. Plus is the stick a steel or aluminum, this will govern the single vs. duel rear.
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    Spartan builds 75' ladders for the customers they supply chassis to.
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    I think you need to get all your specs together first. I think you need be able to compare all the aspects side by side, not just the ladder.
    There aren't many Toyne's around here so I can't speak on them, but Pierce's have a very good reputation.

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    Too many variables to give a good answer. The Toyne will be a steel, Spartan ERV ladder (once Crimson). This may have changed, but the ERV ladder sold to non-Spartan ERV builders was not their highest optioned unit, i.e. simpler and without their nifty roller system that's their own design. I'm probably not doing a good job of describing that. I'd check into this, because not all of their ladders are the same with regards to their roller slide pads.

    The Toyne body is well built. I'd put their body against Pierce's any day of the week. I never seen a Toyne that I would have been ashamed to sell, I have seen Pierces that I would have been...

    So with Pierce you can have an aluminum or steel aerial. I would have a demo of whatever you're looking at from each come to the station. Fly the aerial. Climb it, especially at low angles. Our neighbors have two aluminum Pierce 75 footers, they're nice enough but bounce a LOT compared to our steel 75. Does this make them not as good? Not saying that, but for the money you're going to spend try them both. Toyne will find a way to get their demo to you (or you to their demo) if you're sincere about the product, I'm sure. Pierce has enough demos they should be able to as well.

    I'm not Pierce's biggest fan, but it seems to me your Pierce experience has a lot to do with the dealer. Some dealers are very strong, demand quality from the factory and the customers come out happy, the rigs are well built and units I'd be thrilled to call my own. I've seen some where this is not the case. There are some running around my area that have horrifying fit and finish and were far too expensive for the spec they were built to, but a lot of that falls back on a department that didn't do their job right in the purchase process.

    Good luck...
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    You may want to look at this product,

    http://www.ferrarafire.com/demoblowout/main/h-5466.html

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    Just curious as to what led to these 2 manufacturers of choice? There are many options for 75' ladders out there.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Just curious as to what led to these 2 manufacturers of choice? There are many options for 75' ladders out there.
    It might have something to do with the recent quest by Toyne to reinvent themselves. Obviously, there is a push for branding. And, all of a sudden contacts and phone numbers seem to be flying. I wonder what the Firehouse TOS has to say about that?

    Nobody has ever explained the problem between Toyne and Rosenbauer (RK) aerials. What happened? Will it be any different when Toyne mounts a different brand? Who knows? Who can know when everything is kept so secret?

    Will any of the shills be willing to answer this question? Not likely. But, I had to ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    It might have something to do with the recent quest by Toyne to reinvent themselves. Obviously, there is a push for branding. And, all of a sudden contacts and phone numbers seem to be flying. I wonder what the Firehouse TOS has to say about that?

    Nobody has ever explained the problem between Toyne and Rosenbauer (RK) aerials. What happened? Will it be any different when Toyne mounts a different brand? Who knows? Who can know when everything is kept so secret?

    Will any of the shills be willing to answer this question? Not likely. But, I had to ask.
    Toyne was cut off by Rosenbauer to the RK line due to beating them on a bid for Omaha. At some point Toyne irritated a higher up at Rosenbauer by being the lowest responsible bidder, wouldn't back down, and got their aerial line pulled after delivering Omaha's rig. Are there other circumstances, possibly. I do know it stems from this deal though, and likely the ownership of Toyne not backing down, for which I don't blame them one bit.

    As to whether I'm a shill for Toyne, full disclosure: Sold their stuff for a dealer, then factory direct. Got canned by Toyne because I failed to move product when the economy took a dump. Was I thrilled with being fired by a letter delivered by FedEx? Not really. I'm a big boy and could have handled a phone call just fine. However, the Toyne product is decent, well built and has people building it that care about the end user and the product that rolls out their door. I never once had a problem with the quality of an apparatus I sold from there, while I can't say that about another brand I sold for. If the time comes that we RFP for an engine and Toyne is a contender, I'd have no problem considering them for my department.

    Chiefengineer and FWD are Toyne customers. Chiefengineer has moved rigs from Point A to Point B for Toyne as driver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    And, all of a sudden contacts and phone numbers seem to be flying. I wonder what the Firehouse TOS has to say about that?
    Someone asked about a product specifically by name. Information was provided to direct them to sales staff. It was not a violation of the TOS. Change your tampon, you sound like a Brand P salesman.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 08-19-2014 at 09:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Toyne was cut off by Rosenbauer to the RK line due to beating them on a bid for Omaha. At some point Toyne irritated a higher up at Rosenbauer by being the lowest responsible bidder, wouldn't back down, and got their aerial line pulled after delivering Omaha's rig. Are there other circumstances, possibly. I do know it stems from this deal though, and likely the ownership of Toyne not backing down, for which I don't blame them one bit.
    I find that a little hard to believe. It certainly wasn't the first time Rosenbauer got beat by someone bidding the RK ladder. Pulling the line from Toyne would certainly not enamor them to Omaha who would, hopefully, be happy with the aerial. In the past I have dealt with and worked with many of the people at Rosenbauer. I seriously cannot see them being upset with a one time pricing problem.

    That leaves, what was said... Just what did Toyne do that, "irritated a higher up" with Rosey?

    As to whether I'm a shill for Toyne, full disclosure: Sold their stuff for a dealer, then factory direct. Got canned by Toyne because I failed to move product when the economy took a dump. Was I thrilled with being fired by a letter delivered by FedEx? Not really. I'm a big boy and could have handled a phone call just fine. However, the Toyne product is decent, well built and has people building it that care about the end user and the product that rolls out their door. I never once had a problem with the quality of an apparatus I sold from there, while I can't say that about another brand I sold for. If the time comes that we RFP for an engine and Toyne is a contender, I'd have no problem considering them for my department.
    Canned. Yeah, the quotas stink. However, they are a sign of a growing builder in some circumstances. Growing builders need to weed out the less motivated sellers and find the ones who produce. They have skilled employees that need to know the sales force is competent and able to keep up as they gain skills and productivity. Deeply established builders use it as a cudgel to keep dealers motivated. Some companies, unfortunately, develop quotas only because a successful builder has them. Not knowing the people running Toyne, I have no opinions on which scenario is apt.

    One thing I do know, however, is that the relationships between the actual employees of the various builders and suppliers are generally cordial. I respect my competitors and actually enjoy spending time with them. I could be competing against them today and buying from them next year when they go to work for a supplier. Or, vice versa.

    It really makes me wonder what was said. It has to be deeper than your explanation.

    Chiefengineer and FWD are Toyne customers. Chiefengineer has moved rigs from Point A to Point B for Toyne as driver.
    By the way. I really appreciated your candidness. I did my best to reply in kind but protect my anonymity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    It might have something to do with the recent quest by Toyne to reinvent themselves. Obviously, there is a push for branding. And, all of a sudden contacts and phone numbers seem to be flying. I wonder what the Firehouse TOS has to say about that?

    Nobody has ever explained the problem between Toyne and Rosenbauer (RK) aerials. What happened? Will it be any different when Toyne mounts a different brand? Who knows? Who can know when everything is kept so secret?

    Will any of the shills be willing to answer this question? Not likely. But, I had to ask.
    I think you are out in left field. I am wondering why they are only considering Toyne and Pierce. I could care less about Toyne and Rosenbauers conflict (?) with each other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    I find that a little hard to believe. It certainly wasn't the first time Rosenbauer got beat by someone bidding the RK ladder. Pulling the line from Toyne would certainly not enamor them to Omaha who would, hopefully, be happy with the aerial. In the past I have dealt with and worked with many of the people at Rosenbauer. I seriously cannot see them being upset with a one time pricing problem.

    That leaves, what was said... Just what did Toyne do that, "irritated a higher up" with Rosey?



    Canned. Yeah, the quotas stink. However, they are a sign of a growing builder in some circumstances. Growing builders need to weed out the less motivated sellers and find the ones who produce. They have skilled employees that need to know the sales force is competent and able to keep up as they gain skills and productivity. Deeply established builders use it as a cudgel to keep dealers motivated. Some companies, unfortunately, develop quotas only because a successful builder has them. Not knowing the people running Toyne, I have no opinions on which scenario is apt.

    One thing I do know, however, is that the relationships between the actual employees of the various builders and suppliers are generally cordial. I respect my competitors and actually enjoy spending time with them. I could be competing against them today and buying from them next year when they go to work for a supplier. Or, vice versa.

    It really makes me wonder what was said. It has to be deeper than your explanation.



    By the way. I really appreciated your candidness. I did my best to reply in kind but protect my anonymity.
    It has been long enough that I'm fairly sure I heard rumblings through some friends at Rosenbauer (I sold them pre-Toyne, and honestly left that dealer in a fit of ignorance and stupidity we won't get into here) indicating the same general story, but honestly - I've forgotten a lot of that portion of my life because let's be honest, every day as a fire apparatus salesman you're hearing rumors about Brand X vs. Brand Y with Brand Z going bankrupt. Trust me though, I'm very certain (like 99%) it centered around the Omaha deal and some aspect of it.

    Again - I understand Toyne's decision to end my employment. It seemed the harder I tried to sell, the worse I did. My resentment was solely with the manner in which my employment was ended. I know every person I need to terminate in my paying job gets a face to face meeting, if they're willing to sit for it. There are obviously those that don't want to face the music and just disappear. I had a good deal of success as an employee of a Toyne dealer, but for some reason when I was factory direct my pricing was never competitive and no matter how much selling I did, the bottom line became an even bigger issue as the economy tanked. But like everything life usually works out and I ended up in a fantastic job that wouldn't have likely happened if I was still selling trucks.

    Like you, I still have some friends in the business, people whom I enjoy spending time with a great deal. There are a lot of very good people in the fire sales business. It doesn't take long to figure out who the bad ones are because they're out there, but I tend to get in trouble at trade shows because I spend more time catching up than looking at new stuff...
    Last edited by npfd801; 08-19-2014 at 11:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    I did my best to reply in kind but protect my anonymity.
    Have you ever identified who you sell for?

    It's funny your whole anonymity thing...considering so many on here know each other by name, location and fire department. It's not like you work for the damn CIA for crying out loud.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    It might have something to do with the recent quest by Toyne to reinvent themselves. Obviously, there is a push for branding. And, all of a sudden contacts and phone numbers seem to be flying. I wonder what the Firehouse TOS has to say about that?

    Nobody has ever explained the problem between Toyne and Rosenbauer (RK) aerials. What happened? Will it be any different when Toyne mounts a different brand? Who knows? Who can know when everything is kept so secret?


    This right here is quite possibly the most ludicrous thing posted on FH.com in years. You...MR ANONYMITY complaining about everything being kept so secret. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! No really, you can't be serious. You who keeps saying I must keep my identity secret, complaining about secrecy. Look up the definition of hypocrisy because my bet is there is a picture of you right along side it in the dictionary.

    Will any of the shills be willing to answer this question? Not likely. But, I had to ask.

    Nah.once again because of your silly games you just made yourself irrelevant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Have you ever identified who you sell for?
    No.

    And, I don't intend to. My posts offer only my opinion, not my employer's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Have a nice day in the bunker with your tinfoil hat!

    Whatever. (Have the nurse check your meds.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    No.

    And, I don't intend to. My posts offer only my opinion, not my employer's.
    BULL SCHITT! In my opinion your failing to disclose who YOU sell for is a violation of the TOS and makes any apparatus comments you make tainted. If what you are saying here were true you would have no problem saying who you sold for, but because you won't anything you say is tainted by that phoney baloney secrecy BS.

    All the rest of us that announced we sell, or have sold, apparatus readily said who we sold for.

    What is the real reason you won't say?
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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Whatever. (Have the nurse check your meds.)
    I don't need any psyche meds. But I suspect you might. Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself which one of us is so delusional that he believes he has to retain his "Anonymity" on a firefighter internet forum.

    That is some funny stuff right there...You secret agent man, suggesting I need meds. I'm not hiding, many here know who I am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Take a look in the mirror and ask yourself which one of us is so delusional that he believes he has to retain his "Anonymity" on a firefighter internet forum.
    It's not that he HAS to, he chooses to. It's one of the nice things about the 'net ... you can be as transparent (or not) as you want to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    It's not that he HAS to, he chooses to. It's one of the nice things about the 'net ... you can be as transparent (or not) as you want to be.
    True, but then don't openly whine about apparatus manufacturers being secretive about what they do. It is the ultimate in hypocrisy to set a secrecy standard for yourself and then whine when someone else is secretive.

    Further to me, not openly stating who he sells apparatus for makes every comment he makes about apparatus suspect. Is he building up his brand or trying to denigrate the opposition when he comments? Who knows? So how can you look at anything he says without a jaundiced eye?
    Last edited by FyredUp; 08-22-2014 at 01:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    So how can you look at anything he says without a jaundiced eye?
    I see your point, however, I don't look at anything posted on these forums without a hint of skepticism.
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