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Thread: For all you IAFF loyalists- congrats on supporting the $15 an hour fast food movement

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    Default For all you IAFF loyalists- congrats on supporting the $15 an hour fast food movement

    In case you missed it, the IAFF came out publicly in support of the current fast food workers movement for higher pay. It was on the home page, which will not load now. They even went to the extent of saying all the members of the association supported the movement as well.

    Congrats union guys. This is where your dues go. What a joke.
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    This has always been an issue for may IAFF members, the national organization support almost all Democratic Party talking points while the membership is likely less than supportive of a large part of them.

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    The burger protesters were in Little Rock a few days ago -- the lions share of them loaded up on a bus and moved on to their next stop in Memphis.

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    Actually I DO support it. Hell a $15 an hour minimum wage would increase wages for some firefighters too!

    The fact is if minimum wage had kept up with inflation it should be $10.90 an hour anyway.

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    I support this position as well. You sound like one of those firefighters who doesn't understand who funds your paycheck.

    There is a whole group of folks you support who believe your job should pay about the same as the burger flippers you disparage.

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    A lot of it boils down to if you believe a fast food restaurant has a huge profit margin. if they have money to spare, yeah it wont hurt them, but if they run on a tight margin and the government forces them to raise it up. I really doubt that they will pay more for their good/experienced help. It will definitely be a slap in the face of the experienced help to have the newest help being paid the same.
    scfire86 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    A lot of it boils down to if you believe a fast food restaurant has a huge profit margin. if they have money to spare, yeah it wont hurt them, but if they run on a tight margin and the government forces them to raise it up. I really doubt that they will pay more for their good/experienced help. It will definitely be a slap in the face of the experienced help to have the newest help being paid the same.
    A higher minimum wage leads to more disposable income which actually builds the economy.

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    I always thought wages should reflect the job. And I'm sorry, but flipping burgers and fries is not high up on the skilled worker list. And yes, I have done it and continue to do it as a volunteer at school football games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    I always thought wages should reflect the job. And I'm sorry, but flipping burgers and fries is not high up on the skilled worker list. And yes, I have done it and continue to do it as a volunteer at school football games.

    There are many who believe firefighting isn't much more difficult than flipping burgers and should pay about the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    A lot of it boils down to if you believe a fast food restaurant has a huge profit margin. if they have money to spare, yeah it wont hurt them, but if they run on a tight margin and the government forces them to raise it up. I really doubt that they will pay more for their good/experienced help. It will definitely be a slap in the face of the experienced help to have the newest help being paid the same.
    Business Has complained about regulations since child labor laws were passed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    A higher minimum wage leads to more disposable income which actually builds the economy.
    You really believe that? Work this through, raising the minimum wage more than modestly suddenly drives up the cost of doing business. Where businesses already run tight margins, they'll have to raise the price of their goods and services to ensure their profit line (you don't expect them to lose money right?). When they pay their workers more and their parts suppliers or other raise their wages and prices, they further drive up the cost of doing business. Next thing you know everything costs more. So while the service workers in the fast food place suddenly make more money, all those things they spend money go up in price. The next thing you know, they're still at the bottom, we've just moved the bottom up, and the ones who'll take the brunt of the hit will be those of us in the middle who earn above minimum wage, but won't be given raises commensurate with the wages scale moving up. The liberals try and tell you this historically won't happen, but I'd like to see anyone prove it won't, it's too simple not to be the case, especially with a 33 to almost 100% increase in minimum wage!

    Who is going to give the firefighters and police raises? Teachers? When the unskilled labor market wage is on par with the skilled labor force you think suddenly your city is going to push wages up? What happens to colleges and trade schools? Raising the minimum wage to gain prosperity is a fairy tale of epic proportions. If you want to help people living on low wages, we need to cut costs, costs of ridiculous government, paying for fraud and abuse of our government programs, laws that allows frivolous lawsuits to cost us in increased insurance premiums and liability coverage. In many places in this country it costs more to keep a felon in prison than the average worker earns!

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Business Has complained about regulations since child labor laws were passed.
    I would imagine "business" has complained about regulations long before child labor laws. I guess I have a hard time understanding why you would include "child labor laws" in this conservation. And yes I understand that a minimum wage law and a child labor law are both regulations. But no one is forcing an adult to work at a fast food restaurant.( conversation , I need to start proofreading my posts)
    Last edited by slackjawedyokel; 09-06-2014 at 10:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Business Has complained about regulations since child labor laws were passed.
    While I'm sure we can all agreed child labor laws are necessary, we certainly also must acknowledge that much of those products formerly made in the USA have gone to foreign countries where most regulations are far less restrictive. We must find some balance, something that will never be accomplished by two parties yelling across the aisle at each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    You really believe that? Work this through, raising the minimum wage more than modestly suddenly drives up the cost of doing business. Where businesses already run tight margins, they'll have to raise the price of their goods and services to ensure their profit line (you don't expect them to lose money right?). When they pay their workers more and their parts suppliers or other raise their wages and prices, they further drive up the cost of doing business. Next thing you know everything costs more. So while the service workers in the fast food place suddenly make more money, all those things they spend money go up in price. The next thing you know, they're still at the bottom, we've just moved the bottom up, and the ones who'll take the brunt of the hit will be those of us in the middle who earn above minimum wage, but won't be given raises commensurate with the wages scale moving up. The liberals try and tell you this historically won't happen, but I'd like to see anyone prove it won't, it's too simple not to be the case, especially with a 33 to almost 100% increase in minimum wage!

    Who is going to give the firefighters and police raises? Teachers? When the unskilled labor market wage is on par with the skilled labor force you think suddenly your city is going to push wages up? What happens to colleges and trade schools? Raising the minimum wage to gain prosperity is a fairy tale of epic proportions. If you want to help people living on low wages, we need to cut costs, costs of ridiculous government, paying for fraud and abuse of our government programs, laws that allows frivolous lawsuits to cost us in increased insurance premiums and liability coverage. In many places in this country it costs more to keep a felon in prison than the average worker earns!
    Cities that have raised the minimum wage are seeing positive economic growth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Cities that have raised the minimum wage are seeing positive economic growth.
    Honest question ---chicken or egg? Was the minimum wage raised because the economy was doing good (or poised to do well) and the wage was raised to keep help because with a good economy their is more competition for workers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Honest question ---chicken or egg? Was the minimum wage raised because the economy was doing good (or poised to do well) and the wage was raised to keep help because with a good economy their is more competition for workers?
    I don't know. I just know there are empirical examples of positive outcomes.

    Here is a good article that delineates the poor attitudes business has towards labor and why that is short sighted thinking.

    Pitchforks and Plutocrats

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    College graduates need to make their student loan payments, for the degrees that they will not get a job in. Thus, they drive taxi, flip burgers and other jobs to pay off that college loan.

    Question: How do you get a University graduate off your front porch?

    Answer: Pay'em for the pizza!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    You really believe that? Work this through, raising the minimum wage more than modestly suddenly drives up the cost of doing business. Where businesses already run tight margins, they'll have to raise the price of their goods and services to ensure their profit line (you don't expect them to lose money right?). When they pay their workers more and their parts suppliers or other raise their wages and prices, they further drive up the cost of doing business. Next thing you know everything costs more. So while the service workers in the fast food place suddenly make more money, all those things they spend money go up in price. The next thing you know, they're still at the bottom, we've just moved the bottom up, and the ones who'll take the brunt of the hit will be those of us in the middle who earn above minimum wage, but won't be given raises commensurate with the wages scale moving up. The liberals try and tell you this historically won't happen, but I'd like to see anyone prove it won't, it's too simple not to be the case, especially with a 33 to almost 100% increase in minimum wage!

    Who is going to give the firefighters and police raises? Teachers? When the unskilled labor market wage is on par with the skilled labor force you think suddenly your city is going to push wages up? What happens to colleges and trade schools? Raising the minimum wage to gain prosperity is a fairy tale of epic proportions. If you want to help people living on low wages, we need to cut costs, costs of ridiculous government, paying for fraud and abuse of our government programs, laws that allows frivolous lawsuits to cost us in increased insurance premiums and liability coverage. In many places in this country it costs more to keep a felon in prison than the average worker earns!
    If margins in fast food are so tight why are CEOs making 1000 times what the average worker is making

    Maybe some, like you in the middle, are actually OVER compensated. You see I believe that instead of trying to hold others down so my wages are better than theirs, maybe we should all work together to improve everyone's lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIRE117 View Post
    College graduates need to make their student loan payments, for the degrees that they will not get a job in. Thus, they drive taxi, flip burgers and other jobs to pay off that college loan.

    Question: How do you get a University graduate off your front porch?

    Answer: Pay'em for the pizza!

    Depends on their major. STEM graduates are doing well.

    Pretty smug response for someone in a job that many believe should pay minimum wage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    If margins in fast food are so tight why are CEOs making 1000 times what the average worker is making

    Maybe some, like you in the middle, are actually OVER compensated. You see I believe that instead of trying to hold others down so my wages are better than theirs, maybe we should all work together to improve everyone's lot.

    If competition exists market forces won't readily allow to pass on higher costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    If margins in fast food are so tight why are CEOs making 1000 times what the average worker is making

    Maybe some, like you in the middle, are actually OVER compensated. You see I believe that instead of trying to hold others down so my wages are better than theirs, maybe we should all work together to improve everyone's lot.
    I don't know anything about CEOs -I know one guy that owns (actually leases the building) a fast food restaurant. He works around 60 hours a week, and after every thing is said and done, he usually clears around 40 grand a year. It is not an unsuccessful restaurant, he has been in business for 30 years. The fast food market is very competitive .

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I don't know anything about CEOs -I know one guy that owns (actually leases the building) a fast food restaurant. He works around 60 hours a week, and after every thing is said and done, he usually clears around 40 grand a year. It is not an unsuccessful restaurant, he has been in business for 30 years. The fast food market is very competitive .
    Is he an executive with a major fast food chain like McD's or Burger King? I believe that was the group FyredUp was referencing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    ...a job that many believe should pay minimum wage.
    I've yet to see picket lines demanding our salaries be lowered to minimum wage.

    Heck, even a simple Google search for "firefighters paid too much" brings up the extraordinary salaries of some firefighters in CA (gasp!) and NY/NJ. Not one mentions we should only get the same salary as the burger guy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I've yet to see picket lines demanding our salaries be lowered to minimum wage.

    Heck, even a simple Google search for "firefighters paid too much" brings up the extraordinary salaries of some firefighters in CA (gasp!) and NY/NJ. Not one mentions we should only get the same salary as the burger guy...
    It's anecdotal, but I have read comments by wingnuts in the commentary sections of local news who believe that since being a firefighter only requires a GED that we should be paid accordingly.

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    The problem is that minimum wage jobs are no longer used for what they are intended: a temporary place for an unskilled worker to find employment while making efforts to better themselves. No minimum wage job is there to support a family. You should be living paycheck to paycheck on minimum wage. Luxuries are for those who made something of themselves.

    CEOs are supposed to make more than the little guy. Lots more. This isn't Russia. I shouldn't have to share anything with the bum at Burger King who has worked there 20 years by choice. Everyone has the option to make something of themselves.
    RangerJake72 and HFD50 like this.

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