1. #1
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    Default Apparatus Question

    Our current engine, was manufactured in 1985, refurbed in 1995, and we purchased in 2005 (abouts). Currently, it's out of service for numerous reasons, from a rusted and bent frame, to pump issues and numerous problems with the transmission and rear end. we are using another departments old spare.

    Under applicant characteristics, can I put engine, pumpers, etc at 0 and seating 0? Since technically, we don't have an engine? Or do we? I'm just want to explain our situation as best I can to help.

    Also, any advice for apparatus is appreciated.

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    Default This question may be for the AFG Help Desk !

    Your narrative will be the best place to explain your situation, thus the first thing to do is get by the computer. Does your 1985 engine have an open cab or open jump seats ? If your answer is yes, your changes MAY be good depending upon your answers to other questions that the computer analysis uses.

    As for putting zero's in the place for number of seats, you can always try inserting a zero. But even if the application program accepts the zero, the computer analysis may interpret the zero as an incomplete or invalid answer and invalidate your application.

    I suggest that this question may be best addressed to the AFG Help Desk. I understand that you are trying to portray your situation for the computer analysis, but you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot.

    The goal is to get by the computer so that human's can truly evaluate your need by scoring your narratives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsstChief132 View Post
    Does your 1985 engine have an open cab or open jump seats ? If your answer is yes, your changes MAY be good depending upon your answers to other questions that the computer analysis uses.
    Open cab and converted vehicles are no longer a specific consideration in computer scoring; rather all vehicles manufactured prior to the 1992 edition of NFPA 1901 which addressed these issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsstChief132 View Post
    As for putting zero's in the place for number of seats, you can always try inserting a zero. But even if the application program accepts the zero, the computer analysis may interpret the zero as an incomplete or invalid answer and invalidate your application.
    Incorrect. As stated in Application Characteristics II, you must include vehicles that are leased or on long-term loan as well as any vehicles that have been ordered or otherwise currently under contract for purchase or lease by your organization but not yet in your possession.

    Entering a 0 would raise concern that you have no vehicles in class, which would mean your request falls under a new mission area.

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    Basically if you still own title to a vehicle or it is on your property for use, it has to be reported. Here sounds like it would help because it is 29 years old on it's 2nd refurb. Only thing going against you would be if it kicked the bucket in 2013 and didn't run any calls at all.

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    a few questions raised by the info you have given to us.
    probably the same questions raised in the minds of peer reviewers if you should make it by the computer scoring matrix


    Is the out of service engine the only one you own?
    What other fire apparatus does the dept own / operate?
    What is the age of the other trucks in the fleet?

    you purchased it at 20 years old::: why?
    Why in 9 years has it gone from a vehicle that you were willing to pay $$$ for to a complete derelict?
    How many calls does it run per year?

    If you put zeros in the columns it will be dropped from consideration, You do have 2 engines the "derelict" plus the one you are borrowing.
    Last edited by islandfire03; 11-20-2014 at 08:30 PM.

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    Thanks for the replies. I wasn't sure but I'm going to follow up with he help desk.

    We purchased the engine with the intent of it lasting a lot longer. The department that had it keep their vehicles well maintained and meticulously cared for. We were in a bind and looking to replace a 1976 R Model Mack.

    Our department runs about 200 calls a year (and steadily increasing over the years) and it's seen a lot of fire and got a lot of work in. It was taken out of service middle of this year.

    There is no "formal" paper work or anything, but I guess you can say we are being loaned a vehicle. I found that info on the grant after I had posted.

    For anyone curious, this engine was the last engine to roll off the American LaFrance assembly line in Elmira, NY in 1985. We hope some collector can give it a good life in pasture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    Open cab and converted vehicles are no longer a specific consideration in computer scoring; rather all vehicles manufactured prior to the 1992 edition of NFPA 1901 which addressed these issues.



    Incorrect. As stated in Application Characteristics II, you must include vehicles that are leased or on long-term loan as well as any vehicles that have been ordered or otherwise currently under contract for purchase or lease by your organization but not yet in your possession.

    Entering a 0 would raise concern that you have no vehicles in class, which would mean your request falls under a new mission area.
    How do you enter a vehicle under contract to be purchased if the chassis hasn't been built yet?
    The Vehicle inventory under Request Details requires a VIN for every vehicle

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    You are able to save without entering VINs in the vehicle inventory section.

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    Thanks Sly. Can't believe they allow a box not to be filled

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