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Thread: Fire house Drama..guy got tossed out

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    Exclamation Fire house Drama..guy got tossed out

    Hey guys long story with a quick question.
    Iv been a member of my vol dept for over a year. I am all for the ball busting and have thick skin, its part of the job. BUt we all know their is a line you can not cross.

    Quick story:
    i have been in a year, when i had my interview i was warred about the "dept ball buster". This individual is a good emt/firefighter. But his mouth and jokes and comments are so far disrespectful and belittling its insane. From everything to the worse sexual slurs about peoples sisters and moms to trying to pick fights with the new people because he thinks he is untouchable. IN the 5 years he has been there he has been suspended 3 times and every time someone wants to bring him up on company charges they back off because he is known to threaten to hurt them. Now...he thinks he is untouchable because he is buddy buddy with the chiefs. Fast forward a few months. In a 10 month period i have asked him 4 times to stop making sexual jokes and slurs about my sister, he would laugh and walk away. In that 10 month period i asked him 4 times to stop and spoke to an asst chief to make him stop. Im not sure if it was how i was raised but i do not tolerate disrespect about my family of any kind. Like i mentioned he is buddy buddy with the chiefs so that did nothing. I asked a commissioner on what to do and they said if you talked to a chief and he keeps it up, bring him up on charges. So fast forward again....

    He sliped again and says a comment about my sister in sexual manner to get a laugh. So later that day i confronted him asking him who he thinks he is? I lost my cool and told him you are no one and you have no respect for anyone. And in return he threaten to break my face. I brought him up on dept charges and two weeks later we have our company meeting and on the board for the meeting are his best friends aka chiefs. They suspend him for two weeks and made him take a online sensitivity training course.

    Now, during that two week suspension, the district was furious at his behavior and furious at the decision of the chiefs, because they were not biased on there decision on his behavior, and favored him. I stood up for my family!!! So the district tossed him out for good and got rid of his gear. Hes gone. And now the chiefs think im the bad guy and aggressor and a pussy simple because i asked multiple times for him to stop and will not tolerate those comments. SO now the chiefs are treating me poorly and think im the problem and not him. 98% of the comapny is behind me because i am the only person to stand up to him and not back down, but the chiefs think overwise


    I just had to rant and ask.... AM I WRONG FOR STANDING UP FOR MY FAMILY???!!! I DONT THINK THIS BEHAVIOR SHOULD BE EVEN ALOUD IN A FIRE DEPT...
    Last edited by firefighterchfd; 03-21-2015 at 09:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterchfd View Post
    Hey guys long story with a quick question.
    Iv been a member of my vol dept for over a year. I am all for the ball busting and have thick skin, its part of the job. BUt we all know their is a line you can not cross.

    Quick story:
    i have been in a year, when i had my interview i was warred about the "dept ball buster". This individual is a good emt/firefighter. But his mouth and jokes and comments are so far disrespectful and belittling its insane. From everything to the worse sexual slurs about peoples sisters and moms to trying to pick fights with the new people because he thinks he is untouchable. IN the 5 years he has been there he has been suspended 3 times and every time someone wants to bring him up on company charges they back off because he is known to threaten to hurt them. Now...he thinks he is untouchable because he is buddy buddy with the chiefs. Fast forward a few months. In a 10 month period i have asked him 4 times to stop making sexual jokes and slurs about my sister, he would laugh and walk away. In that 10 month period i asked him 4 times to stop and spoke to an asst chief to make him stop. Im not sure if it was how i was raised but i do not tolerate disrespect about my family of any kind. Like i mentioned he is buddy buddy with the chiefs so that did nothing. I asked a commissioner on what to do and they said if you talked to a chief and he keeps it up, bring him up on charges. So fast forward again....

    He sliped again and says a comment about my sister in sexual manner to get a laugh. So later that day i confronted him asking him who he thinks he is? I lost my cool and told him you are no one and you have no respect for anyone. And in return he threaten to break my face. I brought him up on dept charges and two weeks later we have our company meeting and on the board for the meeting are his best friends aka chiefs. They suspend him for two weeks and made him take a online sensitivity training course.

    Now, during that two week suspension, the district was furious at his behavior and furious at the decision of the chiefs, because they were not biased on there decision on his behavior, and favored him. I stood up for my family!!! So the district tossed him out for good and got rid of his gear. Hes gone. And now the chiefs think im the bad guy and aggressor and a pussy simple because i asked multiple times for him to stop and will not tolerate those comments. SO now the chiefs are treating me poorly and think im the problem and not him. 98% of the comapny is behind me because i am the only person to stand up to him and not back down, but the chiefs think overwise


    I just had to rant and ask.... AM I WRONG FOR STANDING UP FOR MY FAMILY???!!! I DONT THINK THIS BEHAVIOR SHOULD BE EVEN ALOUD IN A FIRE DEPT...

    Good for you

    Sounds like it should have been handled even before you joined.

    Does the dept have any written sexual harassment policy ??

    Does THE chief answer to anyone higher?? As in they should have a sexual harassment policy and maybe dump the problem to them.

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    what do you want to hear from a bunch of internet strangers that are hearing one side of an incident/story? Do what you think is right and let the chips fall, don't come on here asking for validation, it just makes you look whiny.

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    I can tell you how it would have been handled at my shop. He would have gotten 2 warnings at the most. Then he would have gotten a locker room "consultation", also known in some circles as a "Come to Jesus" moment.

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    And just have to add 98% of the department is "behind you" ???? first time I ever heard of a fire department where 98% agreed on anything.

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    Sounds like the dude is a @ss hole. That being said the fire house is full of @ssholes, everyone gets $hit from everybody. This guy may have crossed a line, but in a firehouse those lines of inexcusable behavior are not the same as the civilian world.

    That being said the guys at my house where I work and and my vollie house are brutal. The smart @ss comments are always being thrown around, anybody sees a moment they can make a smart @ss comment you can bet they are going to take it. Just the way it is in a firehouse, honestly I wouldn't want it any other way. You gotta be able to take it and dish it out in the firehouse, now if this guy has truly went too far then that's got to be addressed (preferably between you two).

    Also you gotta think these are guys you will be with a lot of the time, is it really worth alienating the whole crew against you over one @sshole. Because I can guarantee the crew wont forget about it. They wont know what to say around you because they may think you will report them. Trust me you would rather be getting $hit from the guys, than the one they don't talk to. Because if your getting $hit you are part of the group.

    P.S. I can tell you any firehouse in the nation, if they see your sister or you bring her to the station and shes hot, hell she just has to be decent looking. The guys are gonna make comments, trust me on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    And just have to add 98% of the department is "behind you" ???? first time I ever heard of a fire department where 98% agreed on anything.
    I'm with you on this. I seriously doubt his support is at 98%. Especially if 100% of the chiefs are against him. Probably over-stating the situation.

    That doesn't mean that I think he was wrong. The guy sounds like an A-hole and a bully who threatened physical violence. We only have one side of the story but if it's accurate, the guy had to go. Can't believe the chiefs don't see this.

    Depending on what the actual comments were, the OP may want to develop a thicker skin. Had he brushed off the earliest comments the whole thing may have ended and never got to the point it did.

    Never let 'em see you sweat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captnjak View Post
    I'm with you on this. I seriously doubt his support is at 98%. Especially if 100% of the chiefs are against him. Probably over-stating the situation.

    That doesn't mean that I think he was wrong. The guy sounds like an A-hole and a bully who threatened physical violence. We only have one side of the story but if it's accurate, the guy had to go. Can't believe the chiefs don't see this.

    Depending on what the actual comments were, the OP may want to develop a thicker skin. Had he brushed off the earliest comments the whole thing may have ended and never got to the point it did.

    Never let 'em see you sweat.
    and very good point about brushing off the first time , many times (not always) the guy will test you to see how easy it is to get under your skin. A lot of times if you laugh off the initial comment , they will move on to easier targets. But regardless ,most of the time things can be handled man to man if you not only expect respect , but also give it. Some times it may have to move up the chain , but in my opinion , a one on one problem should never be "brought up" in public AKA internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snarff View Post
    P.S. I can tell you any firehouse in the nation, if they see your sister or you bring her to the station and shes hot, hell she just has to be decent looking. The guys are gonna make comments, trust me on that.
    A friend of mine in a different dept. put it best. Any girl that walks into a firehouse jumps two points on the ten scale. By virtue of the fact that she is typically going to be the only women in the place.

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    Part of our new member orientation includes a discussion on how the membership will bust your balls with no mercy...but these same guys will be there for you in anything you need and will give you the shirt off their backs to help. "Partners" and family members of members get some comments made, but if anything goes too far in a members thought....it stops.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Frankly, I lived by a pretty simple rule when it came to ball busting, Significant others, Moms, and most often kids were off limits.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Wow; have times changed. Respectfully. Why are you complaining to this excellent Forum? You are being hazed? We all were. I was. Call the august gentleman out and take it behind the house. Fight it out. He MIGHT be choosing a very poor way of testing your character. Or it is possible he is just a real posterior opening. Either way just give him some lumps. I only had two fist fights back in 1972. They WERE testing my character. Both fights were draws. One guy became one of my best job buddies and helped me pass the Engineers test. You might want to toughen up? Respectfully. HB of CJ (old coot) My point of view only. Thank you. Bakersfield City Fire Dept. 1972. ISO Class One THEN. Great agency. Horrible town. The way it used to be.
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    While I concur with some of the others on here that ball busting always has, does and most likely always WILL be done (it's good for the soul and it weeds out all the non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved company) we always had rules: wives, girlfriends, sisters, mothers and children are out. Family, pretty much for the whole part. Tread lightly when involving family in your shenanigans. And yes, if I were this guy's Senior Man, I would have told him to have a parking lot discussion with the bully- who sounded like he desperately needed a dose of his own medicine. As for the bosses being on the Bully's side, I dunno......Theres three sides to every story.

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    Honestly I am appalled at some of the answers here.

    1) Punching out a co-worker in today's litigious society would likely end your career and quite possibly end you up in jail.

    2) Telling people to suck it up when they being subjected to someone making sexually suggestive comments about their significant other, mother, sister, or kids, is quite possibly the stupidest advice I have ever heard. I would warn them a couple of times, then go to my officer, if they couldn't, or worse wouldn't, handle it I would go up the chain to get it stopped. Honestly, you can say whatever the heck you want about me, but my family is off limits. Especially if it becomes sexual.

    It isn't 1950 and to be honest I never thought that kind of Bull Schitt was ever appropriate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Honestly I am appalled at some of the answers here...
    I'm with Fyred on this. This ain't the 70's, and we can't just go and rough people up behind the firehouse.

    Trust me, I'm no softie, and I enjoy good firehouse banter along with everyone else. But there comes a time where it crosses a line, and it sounds like the line got crossed too many times here.

    I think it's interesting that many folks are telling the lad to toughen up rather than questioning whether or not the chief was actually enabling this behavior.
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    there is always a bully in every crowd. If they smell vulnerability they keep up the attacks until someone gets hurt.
    the fact that he was threatening violence means he should be reported to law enforcement.

    This is 2015 and arseholes like him need to go.

    You can't hold a blanket party or other such retribution that was the norm 25 -30 years ago as it will leave the "offenders out of a job and possibly brought up on criminal charges.

    Your department should have written procedures for complaint resolution . follow them.

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    I still think perhaps the best solution at the very beginning would have been to call the guy out and take it behind the house. Respectfully. Perhaps what the American Fire Service is a return to the good old days? Respectfully. Just me. Violence usually settles everything. HB of CJ (old coot)
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    Quote Originally Posted by HBofCJ View Post
    I still think perhaps the best solution at the very beginning would have been to call the guy out and take it behind the house. Respectfully. Perhaps what the American Fire Service is a return to the good old days? Respectfully. Just me. Violence usually settles everything. HB of CJ (old coot)
    For the love of God man, please stop acting like this is the grade school days of old. You re so off base in your advice here that it is insane. YOU may have been willing to risk your career by punching some azz hole out behind the station, but I, and obviously others here are not. There is a difference between teasing and goofing around and what the offender was doing to this firefighter.

    Seriously if this couldn't be handled within the fire department I would go outside the FD to the governing body to get it stopped.

    PLEASE STOP with your antiquated advice that will cost someone their job and perhaps so much more. There is nothing "respectfully" about your post and if you are advising someone else to do something it is no longer your oh so quaint "just me."
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    FyredUp; Respectfully, Is it just me or are your in fact "bullying" this very Fine Fire Forum? Please tell it is ain't so. This is not the first time you have attacked the individual and not the presentation or argument. As long as everybody agrees with you, then everything is fine. But ... if you do not agree, then you attack the person. Wow!

    Respectfully, your attacks are not professional. My opinion does not agree with yours. So what? I am allowed presenting my point of view as equalily as others. Again ... if you do not agree with somebody, just say that you do not agree ... at let it go at that. Don't go off on some rant because other views don't line up with yours.

    FyredUp ... are YOU polluting this Forum? And ... I think, (do not know) you never been in a fight? And again, perhaps what the American Fire Service needs today is a little bit more backbone? Something I am not seeing from some points of view? I am now talking you YOU. You have me doing it. Sorry. Respectfully. HB of CJ (old coot)

    I for one regret what is happening to this Fine Forum. Just me. FyredUp; please PEM me. We need to talk a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HBofCJ View Post
    FyredUp; Respectfully, Is it just me or are your in fact "bullying" this very Fine Fire Forum? Please tell it is ain't so. This is not the first time you have attacked the individual and not the presentation or argument. As long as everybody agrees with you, then everything is fine. But ... if you do not agree, then you attack the person. Wow!

    If telling you that it is in fact the stupidest thing I have ever heard to suggest to a firefighter today to risk losing his job, and perhaps his freedom, by taking another firefighter out behind the fire station and engaging in a fist fight is what you consider bullying perhaps you need to take your own advice and look at it as hazing.

    Respectfully, your attacks are not professional. My opinion does not agree with yours. So what? I am allowed presenting my point of view as equalily as others. Again ... if you do not agree with somebody, just say that you do not agree ... at let it go at that. Don't go off on some rant because other views don't line up with yours.

    Your opinion is so antiquated as to be ludicrous. People get suspended and fired today for THREATENING violence against co-workers, let alone actually engaging in a fight. You can post whatever you want, funny that you say that and then tell me I can't post what I want in rebuttal. Hypocrisy, look it up.

    FyredUp ... are YOU polluting this Forum? And ... I think, (do not know) you never been in a fight? And again, perhaps what the American Fire Service needs today is a little bit more backbone? Something I am not seeing from some points of view? I am now talking you YOU. You have me doing it. Sorry. Respectfully. HB of CJ (old coot)

    Have I ever been in a fight? Of course I have. At any job I have ever had? Nope. That would be stupid as H ell in my opinion. You call fist fighting at work over harassment backbone, I call it phucking stupid and a career ender. Sorry my job meant more to me than that, harassment, is illegal and all it takes is for the one being harassed to say stop for it to become a work problem that a supervisor needs to correct, and now, or the supervisor can be in as much trouble as the harasser. There is a huge difference between goofing around and teasing and sexual harassment.

    I for one regret what is happening to this Fine Forum. Just me. FyredUp; please PEM me. We need to talk a bit.

    If you regret what happened here then open your eyes to the fact that it ain't the "Good Old Days" anymore and what you are suggesting is simply unacceptable and may end a career.
    Your posts, like in this topic, are why I asked how old you were and when you retired because the fire service, work rules, and laws, have changed and much of what may have been acceptable during your time, and even when I started, simply aren't anymore
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    90 % of the time it will never come to blows, but in my opinion it still should be an option. I firmly believe that when a "bully" realizes its now serious, attitudes tend to change. And hopefully everyone is discussing this as a hypothetical situation , because what we are hearing is one person's story.

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    Respectfully. Perhaps they should be? Which is kinda my point. What I am seeing here on this forum does not bode well for the American Fire Service. Perhaps a return to basic values and common sense approaches to personality conflicts is what we need? And are not getting for many reasons?

    And ... even if I am out of line here, (which I do not believe I am) then why not just acknowledge my opinions, experiences and viewpoints as for what they are? And no more. Just experiences, viewpoints and points of view. Why the personal attacks? One answer out of many is that perhaps I hit a nerve?

    Or it is equally possible at this point in time that I have it completly wrong also. But ... then again I do not think so. Finally, I believe I have already answered your personal questions as to who I am and where I came from. Just pull down my few posts. Respectfully. HB of CJ (old coot)

    Parthian shot; Unlike many here, I do not have the luxury of posting literally thousands of threads on this excellent Fire Forum. I have a life. While I appreciate the collective expertise of the many posters here, please understand I do not live or breathe this stuff. Regression and fixation has it place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HBofCJ View Post
    I still think perhaps the best solution at the very beginning would have been to call the guy out and take it behind the house.
    Maybe this worked in the 1970's, but it doesn't anymore. Doing this would be assault and battery - and the overly litigious society in which we now live would ensure that not only would you end up without a job (career or volunteer), but also in a court of law.

    It seems to be common in the fire service that no matter how long you're in, or how long you've been out of it, the way "it used to be done" was the right way. Perhaps that's sometimes true, but refusing to think like a modern day firefighter, company officer, or chief officer is a sure way to be left behind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HBofCJ View Post
    What I am seeing here on this forum does not bode well for the American Fire Service.
    Once again, an insult to those of us that are still on the job. It's an implication that we're ineffective, uneducated, and driving the train that is the demise of the American fire service. Many things have changed in the past 40 years: education, training, expectations (internal and external), laws, and so much more. It's got to be difficult for someone who's not currently involved to quite grasp it. That's not specifically directed to you, HB - it's something I've heard from any number of retirees.

    Perhaps a return to basic values and common sense approaches to personality conflicts is what we need? And are not getting for many reasons?
    See above. The fire service isn't an island in the land of human resources any longer. Yes, we have our own culture, but we still have to adhere to modern laws, rules, and training, even if we don't necessarily agree with it.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 03-22-2015 at 08:45 PM. Reason: BBQ sauce on fingers
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    I think a lot of us may find it appealing on some level to "take it outside". Clearly those days are long gone. Think of what is on the line. Salary, pension, benefits, legal costs to defend a possible criminal charge, a possible civil judgment against you, possible jail time for serious injury or suffering a serious injury yourself. Sounds drastic but things can get out of hand. How well do you really know people? How do you go home to your wife (and kids?) and tell them it's all gone? Why, because someone called her a name? What would her choice have been? I know what mine would want, and it's not fisticuffs in the workplace.

    HBofCJ,
    The world has changed a lot since 1972. Even since 1982 or 1992. I won't get into the "for better or for worse" argument because it doesn't really matter. We all need to deal with the reality we actually face. I'm a big risk vs reward guy and I believe it applies here. There are other avenues nowadays that have to be used.

    slackjawedyokel,
    I agree that the biggest loudmouth will often pipe down once he finds out he is going to have to "earn" the privilege of abusing people. I don't see it as a viable option these days. But I get your point.

    FyrdUp,
    I also find the idea that the modern fire service is doomed because we no longer beat the crap out of each other offensive. Modern fires are hotter, faster growing, more volatile and more toxic than they were 40 years ago. Buildings are more tightly sealed, yet more poorly built than they were before. Most departments are fighting fires with less people than ever before. Yet fires still go out. Some guys on this forum should get medals just for getting on the rig when we consider what they're up against. I have all the respect in the world for the leather-lunged iron men of the past. We don't do what they did. But they didn't ever do what we do either.

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