11-29-2000, 12:55 AM #1Haligan125Firehouse.com Guest
Can anyone tell me about theese? We had a dealer come to the department and talk about them a little. What do people think about them
YEah, I see that I missed a v don;t kill me
[This message has been edited by Haligan125 (edited 11-29-2000).]
11-29-2000, 01:50 AM #2MetalMedicFirehouse.com Guest
We had Survivair at the department I was on previous to the one I am on now which uses Scott. I liked the Survivair face pieces much better than the Scott and the units always seemed to be more rugged than the Scott. I have also used Dreager which has some good and bad points.
The only bad thing about the Survivair I recall was that the regulator had a large knob to turn on the by-pass. These were prone to be turned on accidently when you bumped them while doing building searches and such. If they have corrected that, I would say you can't go wrong with them if the price is right.
Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.
11-29-2000, 06:30 AM #3FD111Firehouse.com Guest
The survivair packs are good packs. The department that use to vollie for used the survivair panther. This is a nice pack. If you go with them make sure that you get the 20/20 mask and the carbon fiber bottles. The total weight of the pack with the carbon fiber bottle was 17 lbs. It almost seems like you don't have anything on your back. I would recommend them to anyone. We payed $2000 a pack, and that included a spare bottle.
11-29-2000, 09:45 AM #4FF.FOREVERFirehouse.com Guest
Take it from a brother from Maine Haligan.. I got one word for you SCOTT.. #1 pak in America!! We had a dept next to use go with all new Drager 4.5 paks.. They seem to really like them but I still say Scott is the BEST pak on the market. Look at most magor cities and see what they are using. As for the gentleman that said the Survivair is more rugged then the Scott I don't believe it. We had the Suvrivair paks at my station and what a piece of junk. Granted we didn't have the new ones but still just the thought. Now we are using the MSA MMR2. We have 10 in service and seem to be working very well But still my heart is with Scott!!! I will say that Scott is more expensive than the competors but just remember you get what you pay for!
11-29-2000, 10:56 AM #5Company40Firehouse.com Guest
My department has used Survivair for more than 10 years. The packs have been good to us. MetalMedic is right about the emergency by-pass knob. On the older packs with the regulator assembly on the waist belt, it is easy to accidently turn it on. The newer models (Sigma and Panther) have a knob on the regulator that connects to the face piece. I personally haven't had any problem accidentally turning on the bypass. The packs seem to be rugged, we have not had any real problems with them. You get a good product for what you pay. The new Panther model has a good list of options that make the pack more comfortable and user friendly. One problem we did find was a lack of companies to service Survivairs. There is only one company near us that will work on Survivairs. They are not the greatest company, but they are the only company.
11-29-2000, 11:20 AM #6firetruckerFirehouse.com Guest
I have to agree with FF.forever I had the privilage of using both surviveair and scott while doing some training at the beginning of this year. My conclusion: I would rather hold my breath than go in without a scott pack. Now with that said, I am involved with 2 depts, one uses the scott with the 4500 bottles and the other uses the low pressure 2216 bottles. Another conclusion - get the 4500 bottles, if you have to squeeeeeeze through a tight space such as wall studs with the 2216 bottles you had better be pretty good with an ax because your going to need some extra room!
Soooo in conclusion say it with me here.... SCOTT Good, Surviveair BAD
11-29-2000, 05:17 PM #7TXFIRE6Firehouse.com Guest
one word..GARBAGE!!! I've had the opportunity over the years to use Scott, MSA, ISI, Survivair, and Draeger, and can honestly say I'd put Survivair at the bottom of the list. Everything from comfort, to ease of use they are bad. Scott is by far the best made. MSA second, but Survivair is way far on the list. I don't speak much badly about products, but they are not worth even looking at.
Any Opinion expressed, are my own, and do not reflect my Department...RB
11-29-2000, 09:57 PM #8Pulaski646Firehouse.com Guest
YOU KNOW WHO THIS IS! I've told you about "SURPRISEAIR's"! I've told you how at high temp's they will literally burn off your back. Firefighters have died using these Air Packs. Maybe they have improved on their quality, but with a track record of that sort, I got two words for ya... STAY AWAY! And if it's a question of "Well this is all our Department can afford." Then you become well trained on Deck Guns and 2 1/2 lines for EXTERIOR ATTACK. We're in the buisness to save lives, Not risk our own to save a little money!
Remember you gotta look out for number 1.... But don't step in number 2! :-)
God Loves Us All
11-30-2000, 08:17 AM #9Haligan125Firehouse.com Guest
Thanks Chief. Where did pulaski come from? It was the guy from R&R. I would rather go with Scotts but we will see. I just finished a night shift and haven;t been to sleep so I think I will go to bed
11-30-2000, 12:51 PM #10Clyde Cushing IIFirehouse.com Guest
Junk. That is what they are. My department in Machias used them. We had five out of six FAIL during a structor fire. Right now we are converting over to Scotts. My opinion is that Scotts are the best around.
11-30-2000, 08:18 PM #11Ford45Firehouse.com Guest
Hey, I have a question for you anti-survivair people. Are you talking about the old survivair packs?? And if so, how old?? We just tried out MSA, Scott, Survivair and ISI. We went from the ISI Vikings to the Survivair Panther II's. It was close between that and Scott, but I was wondering what kind of falures people were having, and if it was on the new packs or the older ones. Input Appriciated. Thanks. Peace.
Newtown Fire Association
11-30-2000, 08:35 PM #12M GFirehouse.com Guest
Did someone say Surprise air??
12-01-2000, 11:29 AM #13firetruckerFirehouse.com Guest
Well this should about sum things up. This is a copy of an email my brother frowarded to me from CT this morning.
State of Connecticut
Commission on Fire Prevention and Control
Providing one way, direct, up-to-date fire service information via Email
December 1, 2000
SURVIVAIR URGENT SAFETY NOTICE
SCBA TWENTYTWENTY UPPER RIM REPLACEMENT
June 28, 2000
Survivair has received scattered reports from the field that the lens of
the Twenty-Twenty mask has separated from the mask rims. Under those circumstances it is possible that the lens may separate entirely from the mask skirt. This can lead to a serious safety hazard. All Twenty-Twenty masks that meet the criteria below must be fitted with a modified P/N 962031 upper rim. Only Twenty-Twenty facepieces that do not have an "X" stamped on the upper rim need to be retrofitted (see figure below). If the rim does not have an "X" as shown below, it must be replaced. Please replace the upper rim only with one that has an "X" etched into the plastic. Then destroy and discard all upper rims that do not have an "X". Please contact your distributor with the number of P/N 962031 rims and Rim Replacement Instructions you will need to change over to the modified upper rims. All replacement rims will be provided to you free-of-charge. Users of the Twenty-Twenty facepiece are authorized by Survivair to accomplish this replacement. It does not need to be conducted by Survivair-certified technicians. Please discard all 962031 rims, whether on facepieces or stored as spare parts that do not have the "X". We know of no one who has had any injuries as a result of the lens separation. Nonetheless, we are conducting this retrofit in the interest of our users' safety.
Manager, Customer Service
This notice is for the Twenty-Twenty facepiece only. This notice does not
affect the Classic facepiece.
If you need the services of a Survivair Warranty Center for this retrofit
or any other reconditioning or overhaul, send your SCBA units to:
Survivair National Warranty Center
209 E. Main St.
Sophia, WV 25921-1000
or talk to an authorized technician; call 1-800-523-7222, 304-683-4595, or
Fax 304-683-3257 today.
12-02-2000, 01:58 PM #14MTNRESQFirehouse.com Guest
Survivair is the only way to go, All those Scott fans must be full time union guys.
we have Sigma's at our station never a problem with them. For you volleys for the weight savings in the 4500 carbon fiber bottles, remember they are only good for 15 years. 2216 Aluminum are a better buy.
12-03-2000, 12:11 PM #15Halligan84Firehouse.com Guest
Full time union guys? What sense does that make? Scott gets a loyal following for making quality equipment and backing it up. The basic model of the 4.5 has been around for 25 years!.. how many other manufacturers are just catching up or still chasing Scott? I've never worn a Survivair, so I can't comment on them. As far as the 15 year life span.. just how long do you want to keep your cylinders? The only thing the 15 year life span has done to us is force us to continually upgrade to lighter weight cylinders... sounds like a bonus to me.
12-04-2000, 12:45 AM #16pyroknightFirehouse.com Guest
I wear Survivair, but I wish it was a Scott on my back. The Scott facepiece is easier to breath through when you're not on air. As someone pointed out earlier, the current Scott (I believe it's the 60) is based on the design of the 2.2 which has been around FOREVER. Scott keeps improving on a good thing while everyone else TRIES to catch up. BUY SCOTT. You will NOT regret it. EVER.
12-04-2000, 01:54 AM #17MJ118Firehouse.com Guest
MY FIRE COMPANY USES SCOTT EXCLUSIVELY. WE USED TO USE 2.2'S, BUT UPGRADED TO 4.5 A FEW YEARS AGO. LIGHTER WEIGHT AND MORE READILY AVAILABLE SPARKED THE UPGRADE. WE TOOK ALL OF OUR 2.2'S AND CONVERTED THEM USING THE OLD FRAMES. IT WAS A HUGE UNDERTAKING
(APPROX. 75 PAKS AT THE TIME), BUT WORTH EVERY PENNY. THE 1/2 HOUR BOTTLES ARE LIGHTER AND SMALLER. DEFINITE ADVANTAGES. I AM ON THE COMMITTEE THAT REPAIRS THE PAKS, AND MOST REPAIRS CAN BE DONE IN HOUSE. WHICH MEANS LESS DOWN TIME. WE HAVE NO DISCUSSIONS AT ALL ABOUT CHANGING MANUFACTURERS. THAT HAS TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT SCOTT. WE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE'S ON LONG ISLAND WHO USE SCOTT EXCLUSIVELY. IHAVE NO EXPERIENCE WITH OTHER PAKS, BUT SCOTT HAS ALWAYS WORKED FOR US. IF THEY'RE GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE MILITARY, THEY'RE GOOD ENOUGH FOR US.
12-05-2000, 06:48 PM #18FirehoseFirehouse.com Guest
Our department has been using Survivar since 1980. We started with the XL 30 then later the Mark 2. Reciently we purchased the Sigma/Panther series. We are a dedicated Survivar department and have been for 21 years. The earlier Mark 2 and XL 30 both had a nylon like material on the harnesses that would not handle entended high temps however that was replaced 12 to 15 years ago. Survivar uses silicone facemasks that are second to none....comfort, durability and safety. The sigma and panther both use a super durable, easy to connect, mask mount regulator that our department loves. Good luck on makeing the right choise for your department.
12-05-2000, 09:32 PM #19firefighterbeastFirehouse.com Guest
Think about this Survive Air SCBA's cannot be up graded. Survive Air comes out with a new unit every three or so years that existing units cannot be up graded to. If you need repairs were do they go California, or were, HAS your salesperson informed you about annual flow testing, and who can do it.
I'm a SCOTT user my self for these reasons:
1. Service Centers are trained at the factory repair level.
2. Department personnel can be trained on feild level maintance.
3. All 2.2 and 4.5 models of SCBA can be up graded to current standards.
4. most SCOTT sale Distributers are service centers.
5. Most of the SCOTT Air-Pak is Feild service repairable. (almost 70%)
SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT SCOTT
THINK SAFE TRAIN SAFE BE SAFE
12-06-2000, 12:09 PM #20GFD34K3Firehouse.com Guest
My Dept has been using Survivair's for years.
We have been very pleased with them. We are
now upgrading to the Panther/Sigma series.
We too are dedicated Survivair user's.
12-16-2000, 03:18 AM #21JimmyPFirehouse.com Guest
We have had a lot of problems with the necks leaking on our survivair and so has a lot of other towns in my county.
As far as I'm concerned Scott is the best.
I have used both and with all our equipment on it is easier to don the Scott than any other period.
01-22-2001, 05:13 PM #22tfd603Firehouse.com Guest
Beware of SuprisAir!!!!!!!
01-23-2001, 12:38 AM #23Chief802Firehouse.com Guest
One thing is for sure, if you ask 7 different firefighters what their preference is on a S.C.B.A. you will get 7 different answers. I have used Survivair packs for 20 years. I am also a state certified Instructor I and have used many other brands in the field. All of the packs have advantages and disadvantages. When I started wearing Survivair's, we had to switch from demand to positive pressure on the regulators.(remember that!) I have used the mark II's, the XL 30's and the panthers. Yes, there was a recall on the 20/20 facepieces, but at least they saw the problem and corrected it. What hasn't had a recall these days. Any problems that we have encountered with survivair over the last 20 years are insignificant and I would recommend the product to any department, but you won't hear me put down any of the other brands either. However, as with any of your equipment, many factors need to be weighed before making a final decision. I wish you the best in your firefighting efforts.
01-23-2001, 04:22 PM #24HarleyGumpFirehouse.com Guest
We just completed an evaluation to upgrade and Surviair chose not to participate. Just wondering with all the Scott diehards - have you tried MSA and ISI. The Scott pack tested very poorly for us (buddy breather dangerous, back frame uncomfortable, helmets hit bottles, guage impossible to read in a fire, etc.)I thought Scott would be my first choice due to the popularity but I was very wrong.
01-23-2001, 05:22 PM #25ttjjssFirehouse.com Guest
we have been using survivair for 0ver 20 years now, no major problems at all, I went thru their classes and became a certified repair tech, someone said something about flowtesting, ALL scba are supposed to be flow tested once a year, not just survivair,
we are still using the XL-30 , and a few of them are ones we had upgraded from demand to positive pressure, they have been real work horses and have never let us down, we inspect them and test them very often, we just finally got some of the hoop wrapped cylinders 3 years ago and are having to take some of them out of service now, 15 year life, we still have over 20 of the good ole steel bottles, yes the extra few pounds is agravating at times but if a few pounds is going to make the difference in my abilities, then i need to get in better shape !
we are going to try and get new scba this year and these will all be donated to small, poor depts all across our state, i am going to overhaul them all before we donate them, and they should last 20 more years if needed, cause isnt an older working, safe scba better than none at all. also, if you dont trade your old scba in on new ones, consider donating them to other depts that cant afford newer equipment, there are thousands of them out there, go to www.helpingourown.com , check it out. and by the way , I am the Arkansas coordinator for H.O.O. TYLER
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