1. #1
    CFDENG23
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question Boots: Leather Vs. Rubber Reasearch Data

    My department currently issues rubber boots as i am sure many others do. I am trying to convince the union safety committe to try for leather or at least get some sort of member partial reimbursement if they choose to buy them themselves. I am looking for good credible research data to support my views. I personally wear Pros both pull ons in my bunkers and zippers for station and think they are gods gift. Can you guys give me some ammo to support the pro leather push.

  2. #2
    Rescue 21
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We didn't really do any scientific research, we just got some for the guys to wear test and they love them. More comfortable, better traction especially on a pitched roof, better ankle support, etc. When the City switched to a quartermaster system for one for one replacement, leather boots are an option we can choose when we need new boots. Can still get rubber IF you want but most are going to leather. Was out for 4 hours on Christmas morning at a 2 alarmer. Temp around zero with -15 wind chill, and my feet were still warm. Didn't even have heavy socks on, just tube socks.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
    Kyle Wickman
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    We got them about 2 years ago for the whole dept. We like the low weight and ankle support. Try FDNY I think that every truck co. wheres them.

  4. #4
    Stuart Cobb
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Try looking at http://www.warringtonltd.com/

    I've been wearing the Warrington Pro's for 9 years now. The only time I ever wear my rubber boots is for flooded basements.



    [This message has been edited by Stuart Cobb (edited 01-04-2001).]

  5. #5
    lumpy649
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Any reputable leather fire boot manufacturer should be able to provide you with the information necessary to further your cause. I've personally seen test data that shows that leather fire boots reduce overall firefighter fatigue, body core temps, and offer more foot/ankle support than their rubber counterparts. Personally, after wearing leather boots for almost all of my nine years in the service, I'd cry if we went back to rubber boots. And, if my opinion counts for anything, Warrington makes the best boots out there. I did own a pair of Ranger Firewalkers, but those wore out relatively quickly and were not nearly as comfortable or durable as the Pros. Good luck on your argument...

    ------------------

  6. #6
    FitzBFDT2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I agree with Kyle, your best bet is to get in contact with the FDNY. Try their Research & Development Unit. The main # is 718-999-2000, then ask them to connect you with their R&D Unit. All their ladder, rescue and squad companies are issued the leathers. Hope this helps.

    ------------------
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry, bfdt2@fitzhenry.com
    Firefighter, Truck Co. 2
    City of Bayonne (NJ) FD
    www.bayonnenj.org/fire/

  7. #7
    RookieFireFighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I hate wearing the rubber boots. Especially in cold winter climates. I usually wear heavy socks, but my feet still get cold. A lot of us also have "mysterious holes" somewhere in our boots where water seeps through them. I've checked mine many times and still can't locate a hole. I don't think that there are any members on our dept. (paid and vollie) that wear them, exept while at the station (oh yeah, the combat challenge team has them). As soon as we get a call, the driver's hop in their turn outs and we get dressed (if we have to) when the equipment van makes it to the scene. That's about the only time our boots are warm. I'd personally like to see the dept buy them for us, but we are on a limited budget (like so many dept's). I know this isn't going to be any help to you, but it's my 2 cents.

  8. #8
    ffirefighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by CFDENG23:
    My department currently issues rubber boots as i am sure many others do. I am trying to convince the union safety committe to try for leather or at least get some sort of member partial reimbursement if they choose to buy them themselves. I am looking for good credible research data to support my views. I personally wear Pros both pull ons in my bunkers and zippers for station and think they are gods gift. Can you guys give me some ammo to support the pro leather push.
    LEATHER!!
    Not only do they fit better, but they are easier to work in. The have more flexibility.

  9. #9
    FitzBFDT2
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Try this Warrington Pro link out. It has test data that was funded by the IAFF and FEMA. Should get you started in the right direction. www.warringtonltd.com/?i=test

    Hope this helps.

    ------------------
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry, bfdt2@fitzhenry.com
    Firefighter, Truck Co. 2
    City of Bayonne (NJ) FD
    www.bayonnenj.org/fire/

  10. #10
    CFDENG23
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Thanks for the input guys, I tried the university of delaware website because they did the study found on warrington's website but no luck.

    ------------------
    Views stated do not reflect that of my department or local.

  11. #11
    MPreb362
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    watch what kind of soles you get. the cold weather climate that we live in has caused a few broken arms and elbows from sliding on the ice and snow. the flat structural soles on my older pros are no good for slippery surfaces. a more boot like type sole however works fine. I, like the rest of the posts, don't think i could go back to rubber. the comfort and sure footing i get from the leathers speaks for itself. good luck with your search and stay safe.

  12. #12
    John_Ford
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Been wearing Warrington PRO for about 10 years. Won't go back to rubber. Did the Combat Challange in them. Don't EVEN think about it in rubber. I have a station pair for EMS and two sets of bunker boots. Bought my brother his first set when he got hired. I have a contact with Jim Walters who is connected with PRO. Drop me a line and I'll hook you up with him.

  13. #13
    RADFIRE
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    CFDENG23 Call The National Fire Academy library and state your interest. Their number may be in the federal pages of your telephone book. I forget where I got it. hey have all the data on file from all publications, manufacturers and studies or tests. I'll look and if I find it I'll send it to you. The info is free of charge, it's funded by the feds.

  14. #14
    RADFIRE
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The number for info on equipment studies and implementation isn't on my material. It's the FEMA, Nat'l Emergency Training Center in Emmitburg Maryland. I have worn Warrington Pro's and a leather N5a and in have pushed in my old volly outfits to make them standard. The info I got was from the above address. I'm career now and lost all my attempts to change the volles. The above center gives you information compiled from magazines and trade publications for research for your project. Hopefully I helped you out. Good luck.

  15. #15
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    Default What if ???

    What if the rubber boots were now as light and as comfortable as the leather boots ?

    Here is some info :

    http://www.airbossdefense.com/Fichie..._Boss_Spec.pdf

    A rubber boot that looks fits and feels like leather, but its a rubber boot. Try it out would be me advice.

    Good luck.

  16. #16
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    Default

    I know this is a little off topic, and I am not trying to hijack your thread. Does anyone know if any actual test has been done by either FDNY or anyone else to see which is safer the tactical tubberware or a leather helmet? I know many of opinons, but I was looking for actual tests and research.

  17. #17
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcBouchard
    What if the rubber boots were now as light and as comfortable as the leather boots ?

    Here is some info :

    http://www.airbossdefense.com/Fichie..._Boss_Spec.pdf

    A rubber boot that looks fits and feels like leather, but its a rubber boot. Try it out would be me advice.

    Good luck.
    I don't care what you say, and I don't have to try it out to tell you that no rubber boot will ever be made that will "feel like a leather".
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343

    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

  18. #18
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    Smile I respect the right to your opinion

    Obviously you have the right to that opinion, but if you don't want to even try it out, then you'll never be 100% sure about what you stated.

    I don't want to change your opinion on the matter, as I am sure that even if you do try a pair of our boots you will still say that leather is better, but we just want to let firefighters know that there is an alternative that costs less, offers better protection and the same level of comfort and weight as leather. Over 200 firefighters have field tested the boot so far, and they have told us that the boot is as light, as comfortable and fits as well as leather boots... and they have tried it on.

    We'll even offer you a sample pair to try yourself, and you can see for yourself how they feel. No strings attached, and you can say what you want about them afterwards.

    My e-mail : marc.bouchard@airboss-acton.com

    Have a good one !

    Marc Bouchard

  19. #19
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    Default

    I'll pass.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi View Post
    Go put your pussy 2 1/2" lines away kiddies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer343

    By the way KEEPBACK200FEET, you're so dramatic!

  20. #20
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    Default Thanks to all

    I want to thank all of you that have taken us up on our offer to send out free sample pairs of our new BOSS CBRN fire boot. The feedback today has been incredible and we wanted to extend our thanks for helping us develop a better fire boot.

    If any of you out there wish to take us up on our offer, please contact me at : marc.bouchard@airboss-acton.com and let me know your boot size, what fire department you are from and what the exact mailing address for the boots is.

    All the we ask in return is that you fill out a short questionnaire after about a month or so of testing the boot. That will help us make the boot even better in the future. We want to work with real firefighters to develop the best boot possible.

    Also, you can take us up on this offer :

    http://www.airbossdefense.com/index.aspx?id=169


    Thank you all !

    Marc Bouchard
    AirBoss-Defense

  21. #21
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    Default NIOSH testing

    Just last month I participated in a study by NIOSH about Leather vs Rubber. We tested 4 different boots, 2 rubber, 2 leather. They put me through a variety of activites...walking on treadmill with highrise pack, stairstep machine, dummy drag, and a high tech test with photography to map movement. The tests included walking on pressure plates to determine force exertion on our joints...especially our knees. Part of it had to do with how much energy we exerted with each pair of boots. They measured my oxygen intake. Some boots were heavier, some lighter, so we did all the tests in each boot. Im not sure when the results will be available. I know we tested Warrington Pro, Ranger/Rubber, Thorogood Leather, and I want to say Servus/ Rubber.
    I have to say..to me the Warrington Pro's won hands down. I have been wearing leather boots for probably 10 years...I had forgotten how much I disliked rubber boots. In my size...the rubber boots tend to be sooo stiff, I have a hard time getting around.
    The testing was done in Morgantown, WV at the NIOSH Center.

  22. #22
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    Default Interesting stuff from NIOSH

    Too bad they (NIOSH) didn't ask us to try out our new BOSS CBRN boot... I look forward to the results in any case... But that seems to be the case in alot of these studies, they always try out the Servus/Rnager rubber boots versus the Pro Warrington... They don'gt really try out any other brands. Thats like trying out a Chevy and saying that all cars are the same way a Chevy is.

    Obviously the Pro's are going to be alot better. Even the Thorogood leather are better than those rubber boots IMHO. Our BOSS CBRN is as light as the Thorogood leather boots that we have tested in-house, a bit heavier than the Pro's... and they are as flexible as the leathers also. Plus the protection level of our BOSS boot is far superior to what you'll get in any of the above boots. Our own in-house testing has proven our findings, as well as field tests all across the country.

    If you want to try them out, I can send you a sample pair (for free) just to get your feedback on them. We would love to learn from your experience and comments.

    Thanks !

    Marc Bouchard
    AirBoss-Defense

  23. #23
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcBouchard
    Too bad they (NIOSH) didn't ask us to try out our new BOSS CBRN boot... I look forward to the results in any case... But that seems to be the case in alot of these studies, they always try out the Servus/Rnager rubber boots versus the Pro Warrington... They don'gt really try out any other brands. Thats like trying out a Chevy and saying that all cars are the same way a Chevy is.

    Obviously the Pro's are going to be alot better. Even the Thorogood leather are better than those rubber boots IMHO. Our BOSS CBRN is as light as the Thorogood leather boots that we have tested in-house, a bit heavier than the Pro's... and they are as flexible as the leathers also. Plus the protection level of our BOSS boot is far superior to what you'll get in any of the above boots. Our own in-house testing has proven our findings, as well as field tests all across the country.

    If you want to try them out, I can send you a sample pair (for free) just to get your feedback on them. We would love to learn from your experience and comments.

    Thanks !

    Marc Bouchard
    AirBoss-Defense

    Marc -

    I will take you up on your offer here on the board. Let me know how I can get my information to you for shipping the boots and I will send you feedback. I am a size 11D.

  24. #24
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstDueCTVol
    Marc -

    I will take you up on your offer here on the board. Let me know how I can get my information to you for shipping the boots and I will send you feedback. I am a size 11D.
    Shoot him an e-mail here... marc.bouchard@airboss-acton.com
    He'll need your shoe size, department affiliation and your shipping address.



    Kevin
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

  25. #25
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    Default Looks like someone beat me to the punch

    Anyone wanting a sample or our new BOSS fire boot to try out just has to send me an e-mail (marc.bouchard@airboss-acton.com) with their shoe and boot size, plus their exact address where we need to send you the boots.

    All we ask in exchange is that you fill out a small questionnaire after about a month of field testing the boots.

    The boots are already certified by UL to be compliant with NFPA. So they are ok to use in the line of duty.

    Thanks !

    Marc Bouchard
    AirBoss-Defense

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