Thread: Are they idiots!?!
01-09-2001, 02:25 PM #1mike021Firehouse.com Guest
Are they idiots!?!
These damn tree huggers going around burning things down are really ticking me off. What is going to happen when they kill a firefighter or injure one? What happens if they kill or injure someone else?? What about all the toxic fumes they are releasing into the air? Do they really car? Are they just in what they do? What does everyone else think?
01-09-2001, 02:45 PM #2FFTrainerFirehouse.com Guest
I have to agree with you. People who think they are trying to do something to help our woodland creatures by burning something down, are really doing something to harm it. The toxic gases realease, the runoff from extinguishing the fire not to mention, 9 times out of 10 don't you think a builder will write it off and rebuild at the same spot. Therefore digging up the ground again, bringing in a new batch of lumber (less trees to hug...) and so on.
Don't get me wrong, I am definitely not in favor of developing every parcel of land in our environment, but you have to be realistic and use some common sense here. The scarey part is that if one of these fanatics does set a fire that injures or god forbid kills a FF, they probably would find some way to get the charges dropped.
I guess it fits into the category of "If people didn't do stupid things, we would be out of a job."
01-09-2001, 04:15 PM #3firebartmanFirehouse.com Guest
I haven't been reading the paper lately, but what the heck are you talking about. Environmentalist's starting wildland fires?
01-09-2001, 06:37 PM #4JKormannFirehouse.com Guest
He is speaking of a group of idiots known as the Earth Liberation Front. They have admitted setting many arson fires to get their message across. A string of arsons to houses under construction on Long Island are among few that they are responsible for. They are concerned with the destruction of the environment by construction of new homes. Apparantly these morons don't realize that these fires cause damage to the environment too!! In my opinion they are only concerned with THEIR lives, not the lives of others....especially the lives of the firefighters who have to extinguish these intentionally set fires!
01-09-2001, 09:40 PM #5Aerial 131Firehouse.com Guest
Ok, we are not happy. Might I ask, did they admit through one method or another that they did the act. If so why not bill them for cost incurred and damages to any all equipment. What does it cost per hour of a pumper or aerial? What does it cost for a FF per hour + benifits.
Last time anyone told me was $125.00 per hour and up. Maybe by working into their pocketbooks they might understand that they did something that they are now being held accountable for.
01-10-2001, 06:57 AM #6George Wendt, CFIFirehouse.com Guest
First of all, how in the world do you bill a terrorist organization? Do you think they have a PO Box an annual report and monthly meetings? Please!
Secondly, let's put this in a little perspective. The ELF is not the first and not the last terrorist organization to use arson as a tool. We see fires every day that are set by extremist groups to further a cause. The Animal Liberation Front, abortion rights groups (on both sides of the issue), religious zealots, drug cartels, traditional organized crime groups all use arson as a weapon of terror. It's been going on since a caveman banged two rocks together and set a pile of twigs on fire.
I once heard an interview with a representative of an anti-abortion group state that bombing and burning abortion clinics was perfectly acceptable as an act of war. If fire fighters did not want to get hurt in these actions, they should not be there. He counted them as casualties of war.
Let's just remember that there are fringe whackos out there that don't give a rat's butt abaout us. Just do the job as safely and efficiently as you can and do everything you can to make sure you go home at the end.
01-10-2001, 10:32 AM #7iwood51Firehouse.com Guest
Here's a link discussing some of it.
If you dig around on Newsday's website http://www.newsday.com , you might find a little more, but they only keep searchable archives for 7 days.
The guy mentioned in the above article, Dick Amper, is one of the biggest tree huggers of them all and he doesn't even condone the actions of ELF.
We've had our fair share of run-ins with Mr. Amper trying to block our brush trucks from going to brush fires, however, I won't comment further due to liability issues.
It's tough on Long Island, real estate taxes are on average the highest in the country, so every square foot of land is valuable. There's not much open space left, so I understand the plight of the people although I vehemently disagree with their actions.
I will add one comment, they, ELF, were apparently concerned about firefighter safety in one instance, they moved the propane bottles out of the house and across the street before they torched it !!
[This message has been edited by iwood51 (edited 01-10-2001).]
01-10-2001, 10:50 AM #8RJEFirehouse.com Guest
The same group is also claiming responsibility for a fire at a commercial structure in Oregon. I guess they get around (either that or they're pretty big).
I can't find the original story at the moment, but it was some kind of "mill" (paper, saw?). And last time I checked, OR was not like Long Island for wildlands. In fact, they have a major wildlands fire going right now.
And our President just declared a large portion of the state "off limits". I thought that's what these guys wanted!
01-10-2001, 12:26 PM #9iwood51Firehouse.com Guest
I've been corrected on one thing in my previous post. They, ELF, did not remove the propane tanks, it was done by the first in FF, but this was unknown at press time. So it appears they are just a bunch of idiots.
01-10-2001, 12:34 PM #10fc80chiefFirehouse.com Guest
One thing that you have to realize when you deal with these 60's radical hippie wannabe's is that they believe two things.
1. That they are right no matter who says what.
2. The ends justify the means.
01-11-2001, 11:39 PM #11lt fireguyFirehouse.com Guest
George Wendt, CFI
In regards to your comment "Do you think they have a PO Box an annual report and monthly meetings" actually they do have monthly meetings....hahaaha there a bunch of idiots im in the neighboring town of Midlle island where i think 3 houses were burned down my town got 24`d (mutual aided) and in mt.sinai witch had 4 houses i think get burned down im not sure im friends with the mt. sinai chief and he was tellin me about this the other day and he said there was a substantial amount of damage but hey i come home from school (im in the juniors..ahhhh dont beat me) and pass houses that have "stop urban sprawl" spray painted on the garage doors and broken windows and i think these people should look for other methods of doing this like not burning houses down.....
"live life taste death i fight what you fear"
THESE VIEWS ARE MY OWN NOT MY DEPARTMENTS OR ANYTHING ELSE
01-17-2001, 11:38 AM #12iwood51Firehouse.com Guest
FBI is involved and have raided the house of a 17 year old in connection with this. It's getting surreal. The FBI and Suffolk County PD are not playing well with each other. The FBI had to subpoena records from SCPD. There's three stories about this today. All three are worth a look.
01-17-2001, 01:27 PM #13Jolly RogerFirehouse.com Guest
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