Thread: can your cops signal 71?
01-20-2001, 12:36 AM #1firehat87Firehouse.com Guest
can your cops signal 71?
Our old chief let the police officer, who was almost always on scene before us since we are all volunteer, tap out incidents (disregard incoming personnel). Our new chief has changed this, as the cops have no training in building construction and do not understand fire spread in concealed spaces. Our police can no longer cancel us on any alarm for any reason, and we all like it that way.
What are your policies?
In Omnia Paratus
01-20-2001, 09:09 AM #2NFDLT55Firehouse.com Guest
We also used to allow our Police Department to cancel incoming fire units up until recently. One day a fire alarm went off in a bridal shop. The police arrived looked at the building and cancelled us. Soon afterwards, we got a call back from a 7-11 which was right next to the shop reporting the smell of heavy smoke. We responded to the area and when we looked into the bridal shop we couldn't believe our eyes, the windows were smoked over and the building was on fire. We now respond to everything despite police reports from the scene. It just covers our butts and keeps things like the bridal shop fire from happening again.
01-20-2001, 09:50 AM #3BTFD11-19Firehouse.com Guest
THAT IS WHY THEY ARE POLICE OFFICERS AND WE ARE FIREFIGHTERS!
01-20-2001, 10:05 AM #4SkidzFirehouse.com Guest
As far as I know, the only things that police can cancel us on are police related incidents. Fights, Property Damage Collisions the police are not dispatched on many of our calls to start with but over all I donít think they would take that kind of responsibility to turn us around considering their job description. So, I would just look at what they are dispatched on and start there. Have you Chief submit a memo to the head of operations at the police department stating his concerns.
PROUD, PROFESSIONAL, PROGRESSIVE
Member IAFF Local 1664
01-20-2001, 01:38 PM #5FiRsqDvr45Firehouse.com Guest
Luckily we have a great working relationship with our PD. They frequently "take in " our Med Aids, Alarms and Fire Calls and are not at all unwilling to grab the stretcher, carry EMS bags or even in really rare occasions drive the bus or help lay lines. They will give us a heads up on any call they get to before us concerning # patients, status of patients,scene hazards, smoke or fire showing and where from, etc. I can't recall us ever being cancelled by the PD as they know the liability is ultimately ours on EMS and Fire calls and we usually continue in "on the quiet" to make 100% sure.
FF/EMT Jay Ellingson
NEWINGTON NH FIRE & AMBULANCE
[This message has been edited by FiRsqDvr45 (edited 01-20-2001).]
01-20-2001, 01:43 PM #6smokeeater51Firehouse.com Guest
skidz pretty much hit it for us as well. The only thing(s) that the boys in blue can cancel us on are otherwise police related incidents, and MVA's that don't require fluid clean up, extrication, med attn, etc.
If they do call and say that we can cancel, we'll respond with the flow of traffic just to cover our end of the paperwork trail.....
Take care, stay safe, & stay low!
01-20-2001, 02:59 PM #7spongeFirehouse.com Guest
Our dispatchers will routinely cancel units. This is especially true for when passers-by call in car accidents or controlled burns without bothering to check on them first (I've been on a few "car off the road" calls where we couldn't even find the car, because it left on its own). They will also cancel units for automatic alarms when the alarm company calls back saying the alarm was in error. I still like the idea of sending someone in (non-emergency), just to be sure and get info for the paperwork.
Another example of the dispatcher screwing this up (at a neighboring dept):
Fire was dispatched for a car fire. Just as a LT calls on scene, she (dispatcher) cancels the fire units, after receiving a call that it was just dust from the airbags deploying. The LT gives a size-up, requesting rescue for extrication, so the dispatcher re-tones the station for the rescue truck (and later the ambulance, once someone catches on that an extrication usually involves a patient). The chief arrives, and requests that the station be re-toned for an engine, due to a small spill.
01-20-2001, 05:07 PM #8tfd603Firehouse.com Guest
Sounds familar!!! Tell that to our town government. They like to play god. I think if the police are going to respond to fires, we should be able to respond to bank alarms etc...
01-20-2001, 06:14 PM #9Kyle WickmanFirehouse.com Guest
We don't even let the police dispatch us. They try to stop us in route all the time. We never listen.
01-20-2001, 06:20 PM #10FFShootyFirehouse.com Guest
Our standard response when the boys in blue want to play firefighter is..."We'll continue in". After several instances where we failed to heed their advice...they got the hint and will now only advise dispatch of the condition that they find...which is fine. We don't try to tell them how to do their job...we expect the same from them.
Firefighters....We're Risk Takers, We're Heartbreakers.
02-23-2001, 05:39 PM #11WFDTruck1Firehouse.com Guest
i ride for 2 depts. the first is one that im trying to get hired on and the PD only responds on fires and incidents that need PD or investigation, not on fire alarms or minor things. we're happy and so are they. however the other department i ride with PD sends 2 cars on all incidents, and they are also a paid department. i see no need for the PD to respond on a alarm activation if the FD is on the way at the same time, especially a call for an investigation of a smell or somthinng, cops arent trained to do that. this town i speak is well known for being invloved in other peoples business, they are know as the WORLD POLICE. one day is really going to back fire on them. the problem is because of the police chief, he wants to take over everything, he's tried to over the EMS, was appointed acting-Town Administrator when the town was searching for an new administrator, talk about a conflict of interest?? im so happy that im not going to work in that town. Cops are cops, not firefighters! go arrest someone, leave the firefighting to the pros!
02-28-2001, 09:45 AM #12TDFDCaptain#5Firehouse.com Guest
Our provincial PD sometimes thinks they are FF's. They often cancel us to MVA's. Last year, we reponded to a 2 vehicle PI MVA and were cancelled. Our chief was in the heavy rescue and said to proceed with traffic flow but cancelled all other units. We arrive to find one vehicle overturned blocking the two lane road(one cop only reluctantly requiring traffic help), one vehicle with a patient still inside(no ambulance yet) and both vehicles still with ignitions on, and gas leaking from one truck. We immediately retoned for a full turnout with pumper for fire standby and manpower and trucks for traffic control.
After this call, we decided at our debriefing to respond to all calls from now on disregarding the police cancellation. Their judgement caused unessessary vehicle travel and risk as well as slowing our required repsonse. They now stick to doing THEIR job, not OURS!
02-28-2001, 02:01 PM #13Fire LineFirehouse.com Guest
When cancelled by our dispatch we alway keep one unit rolling, the rest will slow down or pull off to the side of the road. Last month we were rolling to an overturned vehicle with possible entrapment. Fire dispatch informed us ambulance was on scene and we could return to quarters. First in unit found the accident, but no ambulance. She informed dispatch and the two other units continued responding. Ambulance arrived ten minutes later. We learned later that ambulance dispatch had misinformed our fire dispatcher. Best always to check it out yourself.
03-15-2001, 05:03 PM #14570eckFirehouse.com Guest
Alright first CYA. You are ultimatly responsible for FIRE calls. But in my town the cops respond in on all fire calls if you ever have any doubts as to where the location might be look for the bacon mobile it is always right in front of the building and I don't mean 2 doors down I mean right in front of the house on the walkway. Now there is the dispathers there have been many a times sitting at home watching tv and I'll here the police get sent to a smell of smoke or odor of gas so I get up and start down to the firehouse. Get to the station and sit there and listen to the officer search for the exact location or reporting party. I can even recall an icident where it took our dispatcher 18 min. to tone for a structure fire in which 2 persons got severly burned. Upon our arrival we had 3 different buildings on fire. So go ahead in you never know what you have.
the truth never hides for long
03-16-2001, 09:04 AM #15SFD-129-3Firehouse.com Guest
The way I see it, I don't handle domestic calls, traffic stops or holdup alarms. Therefore, they don't handle fire calls. A local PD (absolutely not my PD!) drove by a strip mall with an auto fire alarm off, never gets out of the car, and tries to cancel the units. Needless to say, the house was emptied!
03-16-2001, 11:20 AM #16postal79Firehouse.com Guest
our police cannot cancel any responding units only other fire personnel can cancel. the police can give a "nothing showing" report to the desk and they will request and reduced response
the only trouble we have is getting through to our dipatchers that once they put our tones out for an activated fire alarm they cannot put them back out again to cancel because the building owner called and said it was a false alarm, we tell them we still have to respond and secure the building
03-16-2001, 09:15 PM #17cozmosisFirehouse.com Guest
My FD is dispatched by police dispatcher. One night, I listened on the scanner as a patrol car was sent to investigate a call that heavy smoke was present in a neighborhood. The officer responded and reported that the smoke was coming from a nearby saw mill. Moments later, FD was paged out for a house on fire. The smoke was NOT the saw mill... it was the house on fire. Police officers should do police-type things. Fire fighters should do fire-type things. That's common sense.
03-16-2001, 11:43 PM #18nomad1085Firehouse.com Guest
In our town, the ony people that can cancel the fire department is the FIRE DEPARTMENT. The PD in my small town responds to all fire calls, assuming they have a unit available. Since we are volunteer, they will sometimes get there before a fire officer or truck with a radio does. They can give size-up information to dispatch who can ADVISE us of what the police officer has found. We will not cancel a response until a fire unit (officer or truck) arrives on scene to confirm, no matter who is there. We may drop down to "non-emergency" response. For automatic alarms, we DO NOT drop our emergency response until someone official is on scene and confirms it was an accidental trip. Anyone can call in and say "I was cooking"or "it was steam from the shower". How do we know they are not trying to burn the house down?
Basicly, ony the FD can cancel the FD.
03-17-2001, 12:07 AM #19LooperFirehouse.com Guest
In our area, some of the Sheriff deputies and deputy constables monitor our fire and ems channels (they have their own seperate dispatch system). Many times they will directly request a unit over the radio. They will also disregard EMS, when its not needed -- ex: a reported "major accident" turns out to be an abandonded car in the ditch. They can also give a size up and advise dispatch -- ex: "house fire" turns out to be a BBQ pit in the back yard. The senior fire officer responding will modify or cancel the response as neccessary. The only time the deputies will actually cancel fire units is when they were ones who requested them in the first place -- "car fire" ends up being steam from the radiator.
03-19-2001, 10:29 PM #20HR314Firehouse.com Guest
I have found that cops have enough trouble directing traffic, no use for them to waste a free hand to pick up the radio and cancel us, because we are comming anyway!
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