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  1. #1
    sgtdave2002
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down DRUNK D.F.D. FIREFIGHTERS

    I HAVE A LITTLE SOMETHING I NEED TO GET OFF MY CHEST, AND I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE'S OPINION. THIS SUMMER I WAS AT THE FIREMANS MEMORIAL IN ROSCOMMON, MICHIGAN. I STARTED MY DAY AT THE PRESENTATIONS OF WREATHS AND PRAYERS FOR THE FALLEN FIREFIGHTERS OF MICHIGAN. I NOTICED A BUNCH OF DETROIT FIREFIGHTERS THERE. THEY WERE THERE BECAUSE OF A FALLEN FIREFIGHTER. WHAT A GREAT WAY OF SHOWING BROTHERHOOD. THEY WERE THERE PAYING THEIR RESPECTS TO ONE OF THEIR OWN. IT ACTUALLY BROUGHT TEARS TO MY FACE TO SEE ALL THOSE GREAT FIREFIGHTERS. AFTER THE PRESENTATIONS WE WENT TO THE FAIRGROUNDS AND ENJOYED THE FESTIVITIES. WHILE WE WERE WALKING AROUND WE NOTICED A GROUP OF DETROIT FIREFIGHTERS IN THEIR DRESS UNIFORMS. THEY WERE DRINKING AND BEING A LITTLE LOUD. I DIDN'T THINK MUCH OF IT SEEING AS THE REASON THEY WERE UP THERE. THAN AS THE DAY WENT ON WE RAN INTO THE SAME BUNCH OF FIREFIGHTERS FROM DETROIT. THEY WERE SO DRUNK THEY COULD HARDLY STAND. THIS IS THE GOOD PART. THERE WAS A RATHER HEAVY WOMAN WALKING IN THE CROWD AND ONE OF THE FIREFIGHTERS YELLED OUT TO HER "YOU FAT ***, LOSE SOME WEIGHT" AND THEY ALL STARTED TO LAUGH AND MAKE CRACKS ABOUT THIS WOMAN AND HER WEIGHT. I COULD NOT BELIEVE WHAT I JUST HEARD. THESE ARE FIREFIGHTERS THAT SERVE THE COMMUNITY AND ARE SUPPOSE TO BE THERE TO HELP PEOPLE NOT HUMILIATE THEM. I WANTED TO KICK THEIR A**.
    THESE FIREFIGHTER SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES.

    LETS HEAR WHAT YOU THINK!!!

    BE SAFE BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
    LETS BRING THOSE LODD'S DOWN THIS YEAR.

  2. #2
    troll911
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    Personally, I think it is a disgrace. And in uniform, yet? How do these guys expect to gain any respect from John & Jane Q? I have no qualms about a good cold one, but moderation does serve its purpose. I do have a lot more respect for my uniform than to be inebriated in public while it is on. Being a brother FF, though, I also feel you had an obligation to confront them and explain what a bunch of yahoos they were and you were embarresed by there behavior (not quite as colorful as I would have explained it, but,hey).

  3. #3
    firehat87
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    I would've reported them, but judging from what I hear about Detroit, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference. What they were doing was bad enough, but doing it in uniform brings disgrace to their department as well.

    ------------------
    Be safe.

  4. #4
    FireLt1951
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Hey SgtDave are what department do you work for. i noticed you didn't put it in your profile are you a volly or paid proffessional. Detroit Firefighters may get carried away at times but we are excellent at what we do. The memorial effects us tremendously. We have more names on the wall than you'll ever see or have to live with. Try working in a ghetto city that doesn't give a damn about you and see how you react. Don't judge completely until you walk in our boots. I'm glad to see that all your people are perfect, must be great. Those firefighters have more citations for bravery than you'll see in your lifetime! I was also wondering why you didn't kick thier A**.

    [This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 01-27-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 01-27-2001).]

  5. #5
    Quint1Medic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    LT1951, that's about the lamest pile of excuses I've ever heard.

    What *possible* difference could it make whether someone who notices boorish behavior gets paid as a firefighter or not? Do you suppose the woman they were yelling at is a paid firefighter? Think she noticed??

    I AM a paid firefighter, and if anybody in uniform started yelling at me, they'd hear about it, regardless of how many LODD's their department has had. All of us deal with apathetic administrators (although it sounds like your department has a bigger problem than most). Nowhere in sgtdave's post does he say that his department's members are perfect. You, on the other hand, make a very good case for being described as a meathead.

    If you're the type of leadership those firefighters have, it's no wonder they behave so badly.

  6. #6
    Quint1Medic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I'll also point out that sgtdave was very complimentary of the Detroit firefighters until their own behavior destroyed his image.

    And you think he should have started a fight with uniformed drunken firefighters at a memorial? Yup, you're a paragon of leadership...

  7. #7
    Mike DeVuono
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Lt...you sure ain't doing much for the bad rap the DFD has been detting lately. Excuses are like...well you know the saying. What if that woman was the widow of one of our fallen brothers?

    There's no excuse for that type of behavior.


    ------------------
    Mike DeVuono

    "There are few atheists inside a burning building."

    These are my opinions and not those of my department.

  8. #8
    FireLt1951
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Sorry to upset all of you, but there were many more firefighters acting as bad if not worse during this period. I took acception to the fact that this individual choose the people from one department. I don't fully agree with what they did but to pick out one department and not to talk about members of other departments I saw acting in a more upsetting manner is wrong. SgtDave should have approched them and vented his feelings,and not hide them and then attack without those people being able to defend themselves regardless of what they did. Like I said I don't neccesarily disagree with him totally but don't attack just one faction. Sometimes emotions get out of control and we have all made mistakes. Anyone who says they haven't is not being truthful. I did not see the incident he talked about, but I saw alot of poor behavior from firefighters that were from other cities and I did not decide to go into a forum and attack a few, because it would effect the rest of their department. You may not agree but then not all people will. I must say I've grown tired of all the attacks in this forum aimed at this department. I invite all of the critics to come and ride with us, talk with us and see what we are really like, then judge. A few do not make an entire department.

    [This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 01-27-2001).]

  9. #9
    DOG 4035
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    REMEMBER WE ARE ALL BROTHERS... Don't bash an entire Department for a few guys that made a mistake...We are all not saints. SgtDave your 100% right, they where wrong. But you should of handled it then and not NOW.

    JUST MY 2 CENTS STAY SAFE, STAY LOW

  10. #10
    FireLt1951
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Thank you Dog, I should have said it better. Take care brother, you guys are excellent and proud.


  11. #11
    comwhite
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    As a woman, and a great admirer of firefighters I found one thing truly interesting in this thread. Some of you think Sgt. Dave should have talked to the firefighters in question. Why? They were drunk, it would have done nothing but provoke an altercation. However niether of you thought that better avenue would have been to approach the lady, and tell her on behalf of all the brothers you apologize. I don't know why she was there, but if that was her last impression, I would imagine she lost a great deal of respect for the fire fighting profession. No, people shouldn't judge the whole cart by one bad apple, but last impressions are usually lasting impressions. Someone should have taken the intiative to apologize to the lady, and showed her that these men were the exception in fire fighters.

  12. #12
    BucksEng91
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    Wonderful...every time someone has something remotely negative to say about DFD (or any paid department, for that matter), someone has a little slip of the tongue and starts making veiled insults about "vollie" versus "career". I'm so sick of that bullsh*t. And in the context of a memorial service, it's especially insulting.

    Take your prejudice somewhere else. And while you're at it, teach your brother firefighters some manners. I don't care *how* the memorial "effects" Detroit firefighters (I honestly don't know why a LODD would "effect" Detroit firefighters in a way different from anyone else - I tend to think that we all mourn lost brothers, but you said it not me). My department has gone through a LODD, and I can honestly say that the last thing I felt like doing after the incident, at the funeral, at the graveside service, or whatever...was to put on my uniform, get sh*tfaced drunk and make a public nuisance of myself. Have a little respect for your uniform, your position, and your vocation. And don't start the "vollie vs. career" argument as a replacement for real dialogue. It's old, it's tired, and it's pretty damn pointless and immature when you're talking about dead firefighters, don't you think?

    ------------------
    J. Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.

  13. #13
    Co11FireGal
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    I am not a FF yet *only 16 y/o*, but w/ my dad, grandpa, and several other family members being volunteers, I have grown up at the FD. I have a great respect for every one of you on this board simply because you are firemen. I can't say I agree w/ what these Detroit men did, but I don't feel it's my right to judge. I have seen the FFs at my dept. drunk before, and they were loud and acting like big jerks, however, they were not in the public eye. I am all for having fun but, bottom line, dunk firemen aren't any good to anybody cause they can't respond to calls. Now, over my sixteen years of hanging around at the FD and knowing the firemen as well as I do, I've seen plenty of conflict...I've also seen conflict break the brotherhood. I'm new to this site, but I'd still hate to see the board go down hill because of this conflict and the insults that are being traded. Honestly, I came to this board to learn something, and I was surprised to see a topic like this one with every one at each others throats.

    Peace.

    -Courtney

    [This message has been edited by Co11FireGal (edited 01-28-2001).]

  14. #14
    troll911
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Well said, Courtney. Guys, I think we could all learn something from this gal. Are ya listenin'?
    Peace back at ya, TROLL

  15. #15
    Pastor Dawn
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    I'm sorry that you had to see that and that the poor woman had to be humiliated. Let's hope that someone who cares about those men took them to task and now they are heartily sorry for their actions.

    Let's watch our behavior out their folks. If we don't police ourselves, we may not like the consequences of the public doing it.

  16. #16
    dr inferno
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    SGT DAVE: Personally I believe you too be correct when you say that these guys were out of line, but why would you single out the department. I'm sure that this could have been discussed without using names. The Detroit fire department has enough problems already without this coming to the surface. I think that kicking someone when they are already down is like punching below the belt. As for the uniform not all FireFighters wear it with pride, and that is sad, but as always there will be a few who forget the respect and admiration that is given to those of us who are firefighters.
    P.S. I wouldn't think that kicking someone's *** especially a fellow firefighter would gain any respect, even in your own department!!

  17. #17
    NCRSQ751
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    A lot of side arguments have developed here, but the main point was the behavior of firefighters in uniform. What department they are from, whether they are paid or volunteer are irrlevant.

    I would agree that in the future posts such as this should probably leave that sort of detail out.

    The main point is that individuals were out there displaying unnaceptable behavior in uniform.

    Did they have reason to be out there celebrating or commisserating? Yes, I'm sure they did - but in the future it would be in their best interest to use common sense and not behave in uniform any differently than you would on duty.

    In most departments I know of drinking in uniform or displaying such behavior would be grounds for dismissal (conduct unbecoming...).


    ------------------
    Susan Bednar
    Captain - Forsyth Rescue Squad
    North Carolina Task Force 1

  18. #18
    ChiefMcD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    SGTDAVE,
    I am embarrassed for you and every firefighter across the nation for the terrible behavior of those gentlemen. This could have been a good topic if the Dept. name was left out.

    You never know SGTDAVE's dept. could be next.

  19. #19
    DOG 4035
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    firehat87 posted 01-27-2001 12:35 AM
    "I would've reported them, but judging from what I hear about Detroit, it probably wouldn't make much of a difference."
    I DON'T KNOW HIM BUT,THIS STATEMENT WAS MADE BY A GUY THAT NEVER WENT DOWN A HALLWAY. BECAUSE IF HE HAD,HE WOULD NOT MAKE COMMENTS LIKE THIS...

    ------------------
    STAY SAFE,STAY LOW

    [This message has been edited by DOG 4035 (edited 01-29-2001).]

  20. #20
    Gill
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    What these firemen did was wrong--both for public drunkeness in uniform and yelling rude remarks to the public. It's a bad thing that has happened, and is unacceptable (I'm sure even in Detroit).

    I understand Sgtdave's feelings. I would've been upset also. But that is no reason for anyone to attack any department. That is probably why FireLT1951 was so defensive at first. Wouldn't any of you do the same thing if your department was specifically attacked?
    And he is right in some of his response. We all have a tendency to judge or throw our two cents in before we attempt to think about what it's like to be in the other's shoes. Detroit isn't the only department where firefighters deal with people who don't care, or even at times try to harm them for no reason. I think this too would make any of us cold towards the public if we experienced the same things. I'm not saying that it's right. But that's the way it is in a lot of places.

    BucksEng91, I believe there must be a miscommunication. Nowhere in this thread have I read any insult towards volunteer firefighters. I think the reason that the topic always becomes an issue is because some people have trouble letting a little comment go without a response, or they misconceive something innocent as an insult. I have no problem with vollies--in fact I used to be one and I respect them. And I'm sure many of the rest of us do to. You know who you are and what you are capable of. Be secure with that and ease up a little.

    As for the effect of of an LODD on all firemen, I wish I could agree. Unfortunately there are many departments around where the firemen don't look at the job as a calling or its members as part of a brotherhood. I wish you were right.

    Co11FireGal, you make an interesting point. I would've never thought of doing that. Thank you for trying to turn something so negative into something positive. I have learned something from you today.

    As for the group of firemen that have caused this thread to come about, the only thing we can hope for is that they are reading this thread and realize their mistake and change their ways. Otherwise, there is nothing else we can do about it.


    ------------------
    I LOVE THIS JOB!

  21. #21
    FireLt1951
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I did not really intend to condone what these firefighters did. I acted out of emotion at the consistent attacks on the Detroit Fire Dept as a whole. SgtDave should have read the name tags and written a letter to the commissioner. These individuals would have been taken down on charges and given a suspension or reduction in rank, all he would have to do is testify at the trial board. Members have been disiplined for a lot less. The members of the D.F.D. are a proud and dedicated bunch. To attack an entire dept (1380 F.F.) for the actions of a few is uncalled for. I hope you accept my apologies for letting my emotions get to me. Hey Dog, how you doing buddy, staying low and crawling forward I bet.

  22. #22
    BucksEng91
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    To Gill -

    No miscommunication here. In FireLt1951's first post, he says, "Hey SgtDave are what department do you work for. i noticed you didn't put it in your profile are you a volly or paid proffessional." I think *you* missed something, Gill, when you read through this forum. My point is this - ultimately, we're talking about dead firefighters. What the H*LL does the old and tired 'paid vs. volunteer' debate have in this forum? Simple and obvious: FireLt1951 is using the word 'vollie' as a perjorative. And, regardless of what you think, I don't believe (and I think a lot of people would back me up on this) that dressing up in your uniform, getting completely faced in public, and screaming insults at women is an acceptable way for ANYBODY to honor dead firefighters. I don't care who you are, what department you come from (really, I couldn't care less that this involved Detroit firefighters - I'm not blaming this on Detroit as a whole), or how a LODD "effects" you (as FireLt1951 says). Do it in private. Disgracing your uniform, your department, and your profession is a slap in the face to heroes who have died in the line of duty. Anyone who thinks that it's somehow OK to act like this *anywhere*, let alone at a memorial service for firefighters, has some serious thinking and soul searching to do.

    ------------------
    J. Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.

  23. #23
    NFDLT55
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Hey Guys -n- Gals
    I'm not going to say anything about the Detroit Fire Department or any other department because after all, we're all in this job for the same thing. Let me say just this. If ANY of our brothers acted like this
    I would have a problem with it. Up here in CT im sure things like this happen all the time so in no way am I going to pretend or project the image that I or any of our brothers are perfect. But what those firefighters have done was basically made Departments everywhere look bad, but sometimes people get carried away so i just say let it go..Its not worth causing a Paid vs. Volunteer fight, or any fight amongst brothers and sisters, its just not worth it. I must agree they were out of hand but i just think that we should live and forget about what happened, becuase like i said before we're all in this for the same thing.

  24. #24
    Gill
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    To BucksEng91,

    I beg your pardon, but I must disagree once again. I often look at the profiles out of curiosity. Sometimes peoples' profiles give me a better idea of where they are coming from. Did it occur to you that this is what FireLt1951 was doing?

    Secondly, perhaps YOU missed something when you read through the posts. I said what those firemen did was wrong. So even though you come across as if my opinion doesn't matter--I agree with you--what they did was unacceptable. Go back and read my post and you'll see that.

  25. #25
    BucksEng91
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    Gill -

    No disrepect intended, so I hope none is taken, but I still fail to see what FireLt1951's comments have to do with anything in this forum. Asking someone whether they're paid or vollie when you're a paid guy and have a bone to pick with them can only mean one thing - that you're disparaging volunteers. That has no place here. And I still find it particularly distasteful that it was brought up in the context of a memorial service for LODDs. FireLt1951 goes on to basically tell SgtDave that he's less of a firefighter than guys that work in the "ghetto city" (his words, not mine) of Detroit. Go back and read FireLt1951's original post. The disparagement is clear. Instead of questioning SgtDave's abilities as a firefighter, or attempting to ignite another of those stupid paid vs. volunteer firefights, perhaps we could concentrate instead on the issue at hand - the frankly inexcusable behavior of several firefighters at a memorial service.

    ------------------
    J. Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.

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