1. #1
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    Post Metz Aerials?? Like or Dont Like?

    I am just throwing this topic in to see what people think on Metz Fire Apparatus Aerials?http://www.metz-apparatus.com/ladder.html

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    Metz has always been a leader in Europe. Their ladders have many innovative features that US makers are just now beginning to copy. The lack of compartment space is the primary reason we don't see them here.
    To be like an American truck company the Metz would have to be chased by a service ladder truck. Most of us don't have the money or the manpower for that.

    Remember their equipment must navigate the narrow streets found in most cities in Europe. No US ladder truck that I've seen would be able to go down or set up in many of the streets in Europe.

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    probably eons away from getting a new aerial devise, but am intrigued by Metz

    anyone here stateside using one that can tell me anything about it?

    thanks

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    You might have better luck posting this in the Apparatus forum.I've tried shaking this bush before with limited results.Things I KNOW about Metz:People that have them either love 'em or hate 'em there isn't anybody sitting on the fence.They've made some changes in the layout of the machine to be more in line with the US market.This ladder is VERY fast and smooth,if I remember right it takes about 65 seconds to set the jacks and be 100 feet in the air. Some will say the ladder isn't NFPA compliant but the HT 105 is. This ladder is one we're taking a long look at to replace our aging Alf,I've spent a bit of time with Stephen and Tony discussing our needs and they have been very good at suggesting solutions to our concerns. I've "flown" this ladder on several occassions and I'm still amazed on how smooth it is. There are a few limitations,the "basket"is rated at 600# and the Waterway is mounted where it could be damaged fairly easily. There are several options on the "waterway"only the "permanent" one is mounted under the ladder. Since they've "teamed" with Rosenbauer there are more body/compartment choices. These ladders have been around for awhile in Europe,longer than most here might think.The founder built their first quint in 1912 and went to the design we know in 1959.I was impressed with how far out you could work on a "short jacked"rig,the PLC won't let you go beyond a safe limit but it's quite a way out.And the rig is fairly short and very easy to get around our narrow New England streets.Am I sold it's the right ladder for us? Not yet but it certainly deserves a look. In our case it will be one of three finalists. Now on the tip loads,the last time I spoke to Stephen,they were working on a new bigger basket and increased rating so that may very well have changed by now. Spring valley NY has one I believe,along with Kennet Sq Pa. and Carrabassett Valley, Me has one that is either in or due to be delivered soon. T.C.

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    Metz have been used a fair bit down here in Australia for rear mount ladders, and they seem to work quite well.
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

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    http://www.firestation24.com/content/apparatus/

    Along the lines of the Metz aerial, Kennet Square seems to have been over-taken by the Europeans!!

    Actually in all fairness, Kennet Square has or had a member that is a sales person for Metz. I'm sure they could answer any questions. I have personally seen their aerial in service and it is as previously said - very quick in the set-up and break-down modes when compared to both the LTI tower and E-one HP75 that were there with it, but extremely lacking in regards to the ground ladder and compartment storage capacities.

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    What questions do you have? We have had one for 2 years. I can send you pictures of the truck from stem to stern. (including prior to body being put on--I went to the Metz Factory in Germany during construction of our truck) We have run the truck hard (average 2-4 structure fires per month). I love the truck, it seems like people who won't take the time to really look at what the truck does are the ones who hate it. E-mail me with Metz in the subject line so I don't delete it!!
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    What questions do you have? We have had one for 2 years. I can send you pictures of the truck from stem to stern. (including prior to body being put on--I went to the Metz Factory in Germany during construction of our truck) We have run the truck hard (average 2-4 structure fires per month). I love the truck, it seems like people who won't take the time to really look at what the truck does are the ones who hate it. E-mail me with Metz in the subject line so I don't delete it!!
    Awful lot of "we" in there. You back with the "hooks"?

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    I PM'ed you
    Last edited by fflynn17; 10-30-2005 at 09:09 AM.
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    I took a long look at the one they had at Fire-Rescue East in Jacksonville a couple years ago. Very nice, but just not enough compartment space for us. Then again, our truck does about 5 different jobs. I think the Metz would be fine for a department that just needs a aerial with basic truck co equipment.
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    London used Metz for a while in the 70's but they became problematic and were sold off by the eraly 80's. We then went for Magirus ladder sets through the 80's with a couple of French Camiva's in the early 90's, but they were beset with problems too. All in all some of our Magirus ladders are now 20/21 years old and have seen the newer Camiva's inot the ground.

    After spending years buying Aerial Ladder Platforms & Re-Chassising Simon Snorkel Platforms we are just about to get another 7 ladders. I was involved in some of the demo's and saw both the Metz and the Magirus at work. Both were pretty agile ladders and there isn't much between them. I fancy LFB will go for the Magirus as our new ALP's are also Magirus.

    LIke has been said, the way the rest of the Wolrd build and use them will not suit your applications. Their common international use is just as an aerial truck without the large crew, ground ladders and other tools that we carry on our Pumps.

    Bearing in mind that Metz and Magirus have the lions share of a very competetive global marketplace... Europe, Asia, Australasia and so on, they push out some very high quality equipment to most of the Wolrds Fire Departments including the High Tech European & Far Estern FD's. (Have you seen Tokyo FD?...They have Robots )

    Here is some info on the two ladders we are looking at;

    Magirus

    Metz
    Last edited by SteveDude; 10-30-2005 at 04:53 PM.
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    Very interesting trucks... thanks for sharing the info on them.

    The underslung scissor jacks on the Magirus look somewhat like the ones used by E-One.
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    Buy American.

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    FFlynn17

    I am familiar with your depts truck but haven't really had the chance to take a close look. It seems limited on compartment space. Also does it carry a full compliment of ground ladders? Seems like the aerial platform itself probably works great for you guys in the small streets of the village, just wondering about those other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWickman
    Buy American.
    I'll go with that, If it wasn't for the people in my Country getting interested in what else was available, maybe some of the oldest and the BEST Fire Engine & Equiplemtn manufacturers would still be around today... The British Ones!!!

    Merryweather, HCB,CFE, Saxon....

    Among others who made first class, reliable (but expensive) Trucks and equipment that have gone out of business due to the pressure from the Multi-Nationals.

    Around the time of WWII there were one or two 'Foreign' Fire trucks out of 1000's in the UK.... Sixty Years later there are very few 'Pure' British Fire Trucks left....

    We still thank God have DENNIS, but only smaller Brigades with 20-40 vehicle fleets can afford them. London, Dennis' main customer from the turn of the 20th Century until the early 90's cannot afford Dennis trucks. We have 300+ vehicles and apart from the German made aerials, the older ones have a swedish Volvo Chassis with a British Saxon body...but with Saxon now gone everything is Now Mercedes with some bodywork from a company that make a range of 'specialist vehicles'.

    The remainder of the surviving British companies are now owned by European Companies...
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    Default for you Metz lovers

    check this out .............
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    Default love to see

    a mack aerialscope taking in a box over the tower bridge.................

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    I have a REAL Metz aerial die cast from a German toy store. Anyone who wants info on the real truck PM me. They work just fine, faster than their american counterparts. Too bad my company doesn't have anyone with a quarter of a brain to work the truck like it could be worked.
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

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