1. #1
    M G
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question PG County Questions

    I have followed the PG thread with curiosity, but not knowing much I keep my thoughts to myself. I do notice this double pulling stuff mentioned alot. What is double pulling. To me this seems to be call jumping, in essense unless I'm interpreting it wrong. To me if thats the case then no wonder there are ****ed off companies. Why does this happen? I can see where it can create rivalries and discourt. Again I must stress I'm interpreting and don't know the real story but someone please tell me what double pulling is! Thanks guys.

    ------------------
    The information presented herein is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

  2. #2
    GHETTOGHOST
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    First of all when a call is dispatched in pg county only 1 unit is due from a station(1 engine,1 truck or 1 squad). Double pulling means to take 2 or 3 pieces like 2 engines or engine and squad/truck

    [This message has been edited by GHETTOGHOST (edited 02-19-2001).]

  3. #3
    M G
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    OK, now I'm thinking maybe i need an explanaion of the fire dispatching/box system too to understadnd this issue. One thing i dont understand is..if a call is in a particular companies local, would they only be allowed to send one unit? I know of 33 so lets say the call is a "33 box" for lack of knowing their terminology. Does 33 only send one unit per the dispatch plan or do they supply an engine and truck or whatever else they have. To me it would be silly to only pull one unit from a company that may have 2 engines and a truck if the call is in their local. If their additional units 'scratched" then they could be replaced by the next due units on the card..so anyway I'll understad better if someone can explain how the system works. Thanks

    ------------------
    The information presented herein is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

  4. #4
    GHETTOGHOST
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    FOR EXAMPLE A 33 BOX COULD BE ENGINE CO'S 33,38,37,46 TRUCKS 5,22 AND SQUAD 8. 33 IS ONLY REQUIRED TO BRING ONE ENGINE BUT SINCE ITS 1ST DUE THEY CAN DUMP HOUSE AND TAKE 2 ENGINES, THE TOWER AND THE MINI PUMPER. IN PG YOU CANNOT RUN MORE THAN 2 ENGINES AND IF IM RIGHT A NEW GENERAL ORDER SAYS ONLY THE FIRST 4 COMPANIES ON THE RUN CARD CAN DOUBLE PULL

  5. #5
    CollegeBuff
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Just something I've been wondering while reading aaaaaaaall the PG posts if, using the example of a fire in 33's area, 33 dumps the house and the next 3 stations double pull (which must be all their apparatus in some cases, right?), who's covering all that area in the meantime?

  6. #6
    Phildabox
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    Ok...I'll jump in too. What companies make up the various battalions? Are the Battalion Chiefs Volunteer or are they paid County people? Also what type of unit does bx denote?

    Thanks!

  7. #7
    GHETTOGHOST
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    If everyone double pulls and the incident is a working fire and not bs then transfers are made to fill some of the stations on the alarm so coverage is provided. The same thing is also done with ems units if one area is hit with alot of ems calls. The battalion chiefs are paid m-f 0700-1530 any other time a vol chief acts as batt chief. The vol chief is equal in the chain of command. A bx unit is a brush truck.

  8. #8
    SmokeEater31
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    O.K. Now MY curisoity is peaked.

    When I was on a Volunteer Fire District in Missouri, we had 11 stations.

    Now, in that district each area was carefully mapped out, and assigned a 1st due Box Alarm, 2nd Due, so on and so forth.

    For example: I was stationed at station 3. We housed Engine 301, Tanker 305, Truck 306, Boat 307. (The "Truck was a grass/EMS/Boat Tow Truck) So, for a 3,1,5 Box, We sent Engine 301,Tanker 305. Station 1 sent Engine 101, Squad 104. Station 5 sent Tanker 105. This facilitated a response of 2 Engines, 2 Tankers, and A Heavy Rescue for every first alarm. If the first arriving OIC called a "working structure", they would then decide if a second alarm would be struck that would send Engine 501(since they were the original box) Tanker 105, and for example Engine 801, and maybe tanker 205. If a firefighter that was stationed at another station was in the area, then they were allowed to respond and see if the OIC needed thier assistance. Sometimes they did, sometimes not, and we would be on our way. HOWEVER, we did not see it has "call jumping", just members from the same department responding to a fire and used if needed or released if not.

    I guess I am saying that I do not understand a couple of things.
    1). Is PG considered ONE department with various companies?
    2). If the answer to question one is YES, then why the bitter feelings towards other companies in the SAME department?

    I have seen some of the responses from different people either involved with PG or previously involved with it and they just go at one another as if we are opposing forces on the field of battle. Yet, we are all doing the same thing. We are all the ones that have the possiblity of being that one that is there to back up the other and may help make the difference.

    So, please, explain to me, WHY the bitter feelings? We ALL need each other. I will NEVER respond to an alarm in Omaha, yet, if we ever do, to have bitter feelings toward that department (and they would be a seperate department) COULD possibly affect MY productives on the fire ground.

    Anyway, it is just some of the questions that I have had about the whole matter as I have seen it come up time and again.

    No intention to offend, just a desire to understand.



    ------------------
    Your Brother In The Service,
    Rob Herpel
    FF/EMT
    Vice-Pres./Asst. EMS Coordinator
    Fremont Rural Fire Department

  9. #9
    Eng522ine
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    I don't know and don't claim to know ANYTHING of PG County but as far as my area goes "call jumping" is considered self-dispatching to a call in another company's area. You would do this for a few reasons: 1) if you already had a unit(s) on the road that we're clear of their assignment 2) the primary dispatched company is not going in-service in a timely manner for some reason 3) if it sounds like a really good call and you have a full crew that just couldn't pass it up. Another great way to **** off a neighboring company is to beat them to a call in their area and either declare command or cancel them out all together. Hehehehe... not highly recommended if you want to win friends but GREAT if you want to bust their chops about it. Be safe.

  10. #10
    CMDR.BACKDRAFT
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Ok lets see if I can explain a little "PG 101" and see if this helps. There are 47 Fire Stations in PG County which is a combination Career and Volunteer system. There are 37 independent Volunteer Companies, each with there own elected officials (Chiefs, Pres, line officers ect,,,) the County staff all but 2 (33 Kentland and 4 Brentwood) with career personnel from 0700-1500 m-f (3 to 4 Personnel in an Engine house and 4 to 5 in a engine/special service house)and some stations have shift personnel 24/7 (25 stations have 24/7 coverage ranging from 1 to 4 personnel).

    There are 8 Battalions each with 5,6 or 7 stations, of the 8 battalions they are split into 2 divisions (northern w/ batt 2,4,6,8, southern w/ batt 1,3,5,7). There are career Batt Chiefs from 0700-1500 M-F and Volunteer Batt Chiefs all other times, in all Battalions except Battalions 1, 6 and 7 which have good Volunteer Chief coverage.

    A majority of the Fire Apparatus is Volunteer owned (of the 100 or so Engines the county ownes approx. 16 or so, of the 21 ladder trucks the county ownes 7, of the 11 Rescue Squads the county ownes 5 and all but a very few of the 50 or so ambulances are county owned. 2 stations are all career and the county only ownes 5 or 6 of the 47 stations.

    The county works on a single pull system (each station alerted is responsible to respond w/ 1 peice of apparatus, except a rescue type call requiring fire apparatus and a BLS unit response from the same station) PG uses a "Run Card" system (a predetermined listing of companies in order by mileage to a box area)and a dispatch sequence, example=Box alarm 4-E 2-TK 1-SQ(eng-tk-eng-tk/sq-eng-eng-tk/sq)from the runcard. Each station has a "First Due" area made up of "Box Areas" (predetermined by milage)
    Only the first 3 companies listed on the runcard may take extra apparatus (if an engine company is due from any station requested, they may respond with 1 or all engines in that station, some stations have as many as 3 engines and a mini pumper, within the 1st 3 stations they may also take any unit in that station including trucks or squads, past the 1st 3 companies on the runcard only the dispatched unit may respond and the station can call in a second crew if one is available).

    When a station is alerted for an emergency response after the alerted unit/units respond that station is unavailable for another call unless they advise fire communications that they have a second crew available. (most almost never have 2nd crews except a few like 9,10,33 and 35)

    Well look it over, thats the long and short of it, if you have anymore questions Please let me know.


    [This message has been edited by CMDR.BACKDRAFT (edited 04-04-2001).]

  11. #11
    SmokeEater31
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Eng522ine,

    I agree that the "call jumping" definiton you provided was a sound one, and one that would agree with my definition of it.

    We work with a paid service here in my district that provides ALS for our area. We do not have a "Medic or BLS Unit" that runs from our station. We are state certified as BLS Non-Transport. In my mind that says in definition, "we are too lazy to certify through the state as an ambulance company." Now, in the defense of those old timers that have no desire for an ambulance company running out of our station, we DO have a problem that plagues many volunteer companies, it is called DAY TIME. We sometimes DO have problems with staffing during the day. I have already provided a suggestion (or a few) to remedy that if we WERE to go to an ambulance company. That is another story though. Anyway, this ALS unit that responds to our district is a paid Fire company, and they have this habit of feeling that ANYTHING that they respond to is THEIR call, whether it is their district or not (which technically ends at city limits) and they CONSTANTLY disreagrd our companies units that are en-route. THIS IS call jumping, and it does ruffle feathers. I have been with my company after a firefighter funeral and we are going through the city district en-route to quarters and there will be a city call, and I watched in horror as my company proceeded to jump the cities call. I TOTALLY disagreed with it, because city units arrived less than 30 seconds after my unit(s) did. The PROPER way to of handled that would have been to OFFER our units to them for assistance. If it had been a matter of several minutes, then I could understand, but in a matter of time that affected the outcome by ZERO, it was improper to me. The ones that did the act felt it was a "what comes around, goes around situation." Great attitude ehh? Anyway, I agree that that DOES anger a primary response company. Declaring a command is essential if you are one of the dispatched units. HOWEVER, command ALWAYS should be relinquished to the "primaries" ranking OIC. (Just my version of firefighting etiquette)

    Cmdr Backdraft,

    I had no idea that the response system was 47 stations strong. So, tell me. What you are saying is that TECHNICALLY, PG is NOT a single district. Instead it is multiple districts that are dispatched through a joint dispatch center. (For example, the rest of our county is dispatched through the Sherriffs department, hopefully we will be soon too) Would that sum it up properly?



    ------------------
    Your Brother In The Service,
    Rob Herpel
    FF/EMT
    Vice-Pres./Asst. EMS Coordinator
    Fremont Rural Fire Department

  12. #12
    tillerman14
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    What CMDR.BACKDRAFT is saying is that there are 47 fire stations throughout the county. Each station with its own first due area, but as a whole the county is also considered a department. Kinda like in Philly they have a certain number of stations each with its own first due response area.

  13. #13
    SmokeEater31
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Tillerman,

    Thanks for the clarifcation.

    ------------------
    Your Brother In The Service,
    Rob Herpel
    FF/EMT
    Vice-Pres./Asst. EMS Coordinator
    Fremont Rural Fire Department

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