03-07-2001, 11:28 AM #1ttjjssFirehouse.com Guest
LDH Loading, flat vs. accordian ?
Just wanting some opinions on loading LDH on trucks, we are going to load our first 1000" of 5 inch this week, i see most depts flat load it, but have seen a few that accordian load it. we have always accordian loaded our 3 inch and are wanting thoughts on the different loads, we could use our hose bed more efficiently with the accordian but what drawbacks are there, this truck has a small bed on it, 8 foot by 50 inches, 16 inches tall. whats your thoughts ?
03-07-2001, 11:41 AM #2nsfirechapFirehouse.com Guest
There are benefits and drawbacks to both - best thing I can recommend is to experiment with both and see what works best for you. Biggest drawback(in my opinion) to the accordion load for LDH is it is a pain to load whereas the flat load is quicker. Flat loaded hose tended to bounce up and down while driving down the road and a few times even lost the hose while responding!
Best to you.
03-07-2001, 11:45 AM #3wofd1Firehouse.com Guest
You might want to check with manufacturer of your hose, ours recommends it be flat loaded. stay safe
03-07-2001, 12:16 PM #4mongofire_99Firehouse.com Guest
I prefer flat as you can load the couplings to the front and they pull off smoothly.
It's been my experience when trying the accordian with LDH that they don't always pull out right, especially when hand jacking. Consequently we tried to load them to the rear to make it better and that was a pain, but we may have been doing it wrong.
03-07-2001, 12:23 PM #5CorvinFirehouse.com Guest
I believe most of the LDH is recommended for a flat load by the mfgs.
Proportionately the I think the fittings are larger to the hose thickness than 3" fittings to 3" hose so I think the "dutchmans", "do hickeys" or whatever you call them would be awful big in an accordian load.
03-07-2001, 12:24 PM #6res7cueFirehouse.com Guest
My dept runs 2 pumpers with 5" LDH, 1 has 1200' and the other has 1500'.
We have the LDH loaded flat with all the couplings at the front.
When laying out there are no hang ups, etc as you will definately see with it loaded accordian. Also it is muck quicker and easier to load flat. To load accordian you have to twist and turn the hose to get it loaded. Can you imagine what that would be like with 100' sections of 5".
All stations in our county that run 5" also load it flat.
03-07-2001, 04:45 PM #7MFFJoeFirehouse.com Guest
I agree with the previous threads. Plus: when flat-loading 5" you use the weight of the hose to keep the load compact. This will allow you to maximize the capacity of the hose bed. Good luck with the new LDH; it is worth its weight in gold!
03-07-2001, 07:25 PM #8newcaptFirehouse.com Guest
Also think about your 5" tools and appliances being mounted where you need them. If yours is new hose it will have the locking couplings. We put new hose on an older pumper not long ago and found out the hard way that we didn't have the right wrenches to break it apart. If possible try to get your tools from the same manufacturer of the hose. It does make a difference. 5" the only way to lay big water. Then comes the time to pick it up argh.....
03-07-2001, 08:30 PM #9tony pericFirehouse.com Guest
I believe that the best way to load your 5" is flat, with a the couplings up front. The best way to make sure you have room for all the couplings is to leave about a two foot space in the front of the hose bed. Meaning, make your folds in the front about two foot short. This way all your couplings will be up front, stacked on top of each other. This where you want them. This way they will lay out flat with out flipping over and possibly coming apart. Best of luck, you guys will love it!
03-07-2001, 10:25 PM #10LtStickFirehouse.com Guest
I definitely would have to agree with the others it is best to load five inch flat with the couplings at the front of the hose bed.
However on our second engine we had to load it horse shoe style because of the way the hose bed was. Our second Engine is a 1973 CF Mack Pumper that has a cascade system mounted in the first compartment and the cylinders take up a good portion of what would normally be hose bed space and there was only room for 500 feet of five inch hose. So this was the method that we had to use and it does come off fine. When we first loaded it we laid it all out several times to make sure that this would work. Its a harder way to load it but, we didn't have any other way of doing it.
I would still recommend you loading it flat though. Good Luck
03-07-2001, 11:12 PM #11ttjjssFirehouse.com Guest
Thanks for the responses guys, i have been trying to get flat loading pounded into our guys heads, but after 40 years of accordian loading, change is a scary thing to some folks. everyone i have talked to says we will love the 5 inch for water flow, but that we just have to figure out the easy steps for handling and reloading. it will especially benefit us because we have quite a few dead end mains and we can use the 5 inch to loop our water mains if we need big flow, and it extends our hydrants another 1000 feet past their reach now. i think it will be a great assest if i can just convince the gripers that it is a good thing.
thanks again for the responses, TYLER
03-08-2001, 06:09 PM #12RADFIREFirehouse.com Guest
Flat loading benefits the street lay, because there is less friction between the layers. The couplings should be placed at the front of the bed and atop the fold to prevent flipping in the bed during the lay. This "flipping" will snap your cross bar at the rear of the bed should it exist. Placing the couplings above the fold will prevent dragging of the underlying layers of hose and assist with maintaining a straight lay in the street. The straighter the better. Accordian packing is not recommended, because it provides excessive abrasion to the jacket at the fold which contacts the underlying layers and floor of the bed during the stretch.
Accordian packing does provide a more consistent lay, because of the constant friction of the jacket sliding against the underlying layers. This friction, however is not good for the jacketand thus the cons outweigh the benefits.
LDH has it's applications, but you must lay it correctly (straight), have the people for it and remember once charged, it's gonna be there until the end.
Just 0.02 from experience.
Stay safe and god luck.
03-08-2001, 09:02 PM #13FFSThomasFirehouse.com Guest
Also consider the "short-long" folds on the back or tailboad side of the bed to save space as the hose builds up. Start the first row "long" (normal length) then the next row about 8-10 inches back from the first row ("short"), then the third row back to normal lenth. Alternate like this through the whole bed. It helps a littile to save space.
03-08-2001, 09:38 PM #14Mike DeVuonoFirehouse.com Guest
Yep...flat load it. Just think of how tired you are going to be when you have to repack the bed after a job.
"There are few atheists inside a burning building."
These are my opinions and not those of my department.
03-08-2001, 10:23 PM #15xenophon13Firehouse.com Guest
Flat load is the all around best way to lay LDH. If you do it in an accordian load it has a tendency to fall over when you start pulling hose, making a large pile of spagetti for you to fix after you are done fighting the fire. And believe me that is the last thing I want to be doing at that particular moment.
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