1. #1
    Engine 101
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    Question LAFD's ISO Rating

    Well I want to know if this is true, Did the Los Angeles City Fire Department lose there Class 1 Rating?, If so howcome? Was it due to the severe shortage of Paramedic's?

    ------------------
    Engine101
    Tim Macias
    TimMacias101@Firehousemail.com
    I will fight fire for Electricity

  2. #2
    S. Cook
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    Post

    EMS has nothing to do with a city's/fire departments ISO rating.

    From reading this and the other ISO forum you seem to be getting what you consider to be conflicting information. So to find out who's telling you the truth, go to ISO's webs site at http://www.iso.com

    and select "Fire and Building Code Info"

    when you get to that page, scroll down and select the link that says "ISOs Public Protection Classification (PPC) Program"

    From that page, scroll down to the links and select the one that says "A map of Class 1 communities around the country" and find LA on the map that comes up.

    Here's the link straight to the map, but not the framed page around it:

    http://www.isomitigation.com/maps/mapfire6.gif

    And if you don't want to dig it up for yourself, no the big city of Los Angeles isn't there.

    LA isn't there, I wonder what that means?

    Sombody lied to you when they said LA was a Class 1.

    [This message has been edited by S. Cook (edited 03-19-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by S. Cook (edited 03-20-2001).]

  3. #3
    LHS*
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    There are three departments in the US with Class 1 on the side of their apparatus that aren't. Maybe trucks with class 1 on the side work better, who knows?

  4. #4
    Engine 101
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    Originally posted by LHS*:
    There are three departments in the US with Class 1 on the side of their apparatus that aren't. Maybe trucks with class 1 on the side work better, who knows?
    I looked at that map and to my shock our next door City of Arcadia there Fire Department has 1 and so does Glendale, Two City's we work very closely with,


    ------------------
    Engine101
    Tim Macias
    TimMacias101@Firehousemail.com
    I will fight fire for Electricity

  5. #5
    Brian Humphrey
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    Post

    Originally posted by Engine 101:
    Well I want to know if this is true, Did the Los Angeles City Fire Department lose there Class 1 Rating?, If so howcome? Was it due to the severe shortage of Paramedic's?

    Mr. Macias:

    We appreciate your interest in the Los Angeles Fire Department. The subject of ISO Public Protection Classifications is a complex issue. Regretfully, I don't have the time to delve into it here. If you would like official information about ISO (an association most closely related to the insurance industry), you can visit their website at:
    http://www.iso.com

    The LAFD was the first Metropolitan Fire Department to achieve ISO Class 1 rating - and it did so more than a half-centuray ago in 1947. For more than 50 years, the LAFD subjected itself to intense scrutiny by ISO and easily clearing the bar, displayed its status as a top-rated agency. That was then.

    The world is a dynamic place, and nowhere is that more apparent than America's Fire Service. In order to be appear in ISO's rating schedule, an agency must be evaluated. After more than a half-century at the top of ISO's roster, the LAFD chose not to seek formal and costly re-evaluation. As such, the Los Angeles Fire Department has not appeared on ISO's recently released rosters of Fire Departments that have a ISO Class 1 Public Protection Classification. It has nothing to do with a "failure" of our agency.

    The Fire Service has been steering towards new evaluation standards for several years. As such, it is possible that the ISO may revamp their protocol, that formal accreditation may take the center stage, that NFPA's 1710 could become the focus, or that - as insurance behemoth State Farm has done, there might become a Subzone Rating Factor that serves as our foremost guideline.

    Tim, I can assure you that the LAFD takes its mission seriously. As during the past 115 years, we remain committed to providing the finest full-spectrum life safety services to the citizens of Los Angeles.

    Yours in Safety and Service,

    Brian Humphrey
    Public Service Officer
    Los Angeles Fire Department

  6. #6
    LHS*
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    In the current FIG Personal Lines Manual published by ISO, Los Angeles City Fire Department is listed as an ISO Class 2.

    With the following notation:

    "Properties may be in a designated hazardous brush area."

    They are up in pretty rare air. With only 306 Class 2's. They are in the top 0.068% of all ratings.

    Los Angeles County is listed as a Class 4/9. With some specific areas Class 8's.

    You had asked about Monrovia. It has the same rating as Los Angeles County. With the brush hazard notation.

    Here is a current list of Class 1's in the US.

    1 St. Louis Missouri St. Louis 1 Pre-1964
    2 Baton Rouge Louisiana E. Baton Rouge 1 05/01/79
    3 Santa Ana California Orange 1/9 01/01/84
    4 Stockton California San Joaquin 1/9 01/01/84
    5 Macon Georgia Bibb/Jones 1 06/01/84
    6 Hialeah Florida Dade 1 05/01/86
    7 East Side FD Illinois Sangamon 1/9 09/01/88
    8 Lake Springfield FD Illinois Sangamon 1/9 09/01/88
    9 North Side FD Illinois Sangamon 1/9 09/01/88
    10 South Lawn FD Illinois Sangamon 1 09/01/88
    11 South Oak Knolls FD Illinois Sangamon 1 09/01/88
    12 South Side FD Illinois Sangamon 1/9 09/01/88
    13 Springfield Illinois Sangamon 1 09/01/88
    14 Woodside FD Illinois Sangamon 1/9 09/01/88
    15 Anaheim California Orange 1 11/01/88
    16 Beverly Hills California Los Angeles 1 05/01/89
    17 Las Vegas Nevada Clark 1/9 05/01/90
    18 Vernon California Los Angeles 1 11/01/90
    19 Greensboro North Carolina Guilford 1 02/01/92
    20 Coral Gables Florida Dade 1 02/01/92
    21 Glendale California Los Angeles 1/9 11/01/92
    22 Oak Lawn Illinois Cook 1 03/01/93
    23 Arcadia California Los Angeles 1 08/01/93
    24 Lisle-Woodridge FD FD Illinois Dupage 1 12/01/93
    25 Clark Co FD (Metro) Nevada Clark 1/9 02/01/94
    26 Hartford Connecticut Hartford 1 07/01/94
    27 Culver City California Los Angeles 1 02/01/95
    28 Skokie Illinois Cook 1 09/01/95
    29 E. Bank Consol. FD Louisiana Jefferson 1 09/05/95
    30 Torrance California Los Angeles 1 05/01/96
    31 Hoboken New Jersey Hudson 1 07/01/96
    32 Fallon Nevada Churchill 1 08/01/97

    33 Arlington Heights Illinois Cook 1 09/01/97
    34 Syracuse New York Onondaga 1 01/01/98
    35 Pembroke Pines Florida Broward 1 02/01/98
    36 Charleston South Carolina Berkeley/Charleston 1/9 06/01/98
    37 Shreveport Louisiana Caddo 1 07/06/98
    38 Dubois Pennsylvania Clearfield 1 10/01/98
    39 Plano Texas Collin/Denton 1 10/01/98
    40 Cambridge Massachusetts Middlesex 1 07/01/99
    41 Milford Connecticut New Haven 1 11/01/00
    42 Frisco Texas Collin 1 11/01/00

    Other grades:

    306 fire departments or districts are designated as Class 2.

    Breakdown of Classes.

    Class Number of
    Communities %
    1 42 0.095%
    2 306 0.068%
    3 1,150 2.5%
    4 3,066 6.8%
    5 5,429 12%
    6 7,169 15.9%
    7 6,800 15.1%
    8 3,943 8.7%
    9 15,563 34.6%
    10 1,403 3.1%

    Total: 44,870


    TOP 10 ISO™ CLASS RURAL RATINGS (FDS)
    (without a water system)

    1. FALLON, NEVADA Class 3 (8/1/97)Volunteers
    2. Dolores, Colorado Class 3 (8/1/98)Volunteers
    3. BEATTY, NEVADA Class 4(1/1/96) Volunteers
    4. Apple Valley, California Class 4
    5. Collegedale, Tennessee Class 4 Volunteers
    6. Prospect Heights, IL Class 4
    7. Loveland, Colorado Class 4
    8. Clay Center, Kansas Class 4 Volunteers
    9. Pending Colorado Class 4 Volunteers
    10. Pending Texas Class 4 Volunteers

    I'll be happy to help answer any other questions you might have.
    www.isoslayer.com


  7. #7
    CFD Explorer
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    *LHS
    Do you have a list of Class 2's?

  8. #8
    Dalmatian90
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    From ISO's site:

    However, certain large cities have enough properties – and experience enough fire losses – that insurance companies can determine appropriate premiums based solely on premium and loss statistics. In those cities, ISO does not examine public protection capabilities to determine PPC codes. Here is a list of the statistically rated communities in the United States.

    And that list includes Los Angeles
    http://www.isomitigation.com/fire8.html

  9. #9
    LHS*
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    Post

    That is true Dalmation but the ISO grade ie. Los Angeles Class 2 was earned as was FDNY's Class 4.

  10. #10
    Dalmatian90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    If I'm understanding you right Larry, that means LA earned the Class 2 under the FSRS Schedule...I assume prior to moving to statistical rating?

  11. #11
    Brian Humphrey
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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90:
    If I'm understanding you right Larry, that means LA earned the Class 2 under the FSRS Schedule...I assume prior to moving to statistical rating?
    I can't recall anyone from ISO visiting the LAFD or requesting records in recent years. Then again, I do let the ISO address issues specific to their ratings schedule.

    As mentioned earlier, in recent years there has been profound interest in Southern California (including but not limited to Los Angeles) in regards to formal accreditation, pending NFPA 1710 and actual loss statistics or trends serving as the nexus of insurance premiums.

    ISO is rarely the topic of discussion among fire service leaders in this region, and it should be intriguing to see what comes of these parallel intitiatives - including the recent actions by State Farm to disregard ISO in favor of their own (rather impressive I must say) data set.

    The world marches forward...

    Stay Safe!

    Brian

  12. #12
    S. Cook
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    I don't think anyone is accusing LA City of failing anything, but why would an ISO eval on LA City be "costly" as you put it?

    With all due respect, is it the position of the LAFD that since they don't "believe" in ISO's PPC any longer that they are still a Class 1 because that's what they were when they decided not to be re-evaluated?

    And if they don't "believe" in the PPC any longer, why is Class 1 still on the apparatus? Is it put on the new ones?

    And it's my understanding that ISO grades a city whether or not the FD knows about it. That's what they told me when the came here for what I thought was the first time shortly after Texas made the switch in '97- "we've been grading you since 1949." And they seemed to have had most of the big picture (batch report, how many engines and stations we have, some water info) down and just needed to clear up the details.

  13. #13
    Brian Humphrey
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    Originally posted by S. Cook:
    With all due respect, is it the position of the LAFD that since they don't "believe" in ISO's PPC any longer that they are still a Class 1 because that's what they were when they decided not to be re-evaluated?
    No disprespect was inferred. To answer you question: No. The LAFD has certainly not appeared on ISO's roster of Class 1 rated agencies for quite some time. Consequently, all persons (who have an interest in such matters) agree that the LAFD is no longer an "ISO Class 1 rated Fire Department". As you know, insurance premiums are determined by a wide variety of factors. I don't think that anyone is quoting rates based upon a graphic displayed on the side of a 1976 Ward-LaFrance.

    And if they don't "believe" in the PPC any longer, why is Class 1 still on the apparatus? Is it put on the new ones?
    The latest delivery of LAFD heavy apparatus carried graphics that state "Class 1". The person responsible for doing so was not aware of our removal from the ISO Roster of Class 1 rated Fire Departments (or the fact that we no longer emphasize City on anything - not on stationery, uniforms or correspondence. FWIW, the word CITY has never been an official moniker). Anyhow, the gent was simply tasked with updating the existing graphics. Most people are aware that the LAFD has never been a Department with a big concern about graphics. Oh, maybe its the new millenium thing, but after 115 years, the LAFD is now planning some significant changes to its apparatus graphics. A new seal and/or logo will manifest itself in the next few years. Maybe an accreditation seal will appear? Who knows? I doubt we will see removal of current graphics or wholesale change on our 934 vehicles until the new graphics package is approved. It will happen, but with so many other pressing issues, it is not a priority.

    And it's my understanding that ISO grades a city whether or not the FD knows about it.
    That is my understanding as well. We have always welcomed them to say or do as they please. Kindly note that I profess little understanding (or interest) in the intricacies (emphasis added) of ISO's PPC rating. I do know that in the past half-century, they have pored over our Dispatch policies and procedures on many occassions. Such has not been the case in the past several years. If they were to do so, I probably would have been involved. No one here is diss'ing ISO. The folks I have met from that organization are genuinely nice. Nor is the LAFD telling other agencies what to do or think. We have never told another Fire Department how to conduct its business.

    And they seemed to have had most of the big picture (batch report, how many engines and stations we have, some water info) down and just needed to clear up the details.
    Dunno where (or if) they might have gotten such information. Again, they are welcome to do as they please.

    Most of us are amazed about the (apparent) widespread interest in our agency, its apparatus and endeavors. We are just one Fire Department protecting one municipality.

    Stay Safe!

    Brian

  14. #14
    Rocking the Midwest

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    Default ISO Ratings

    To add to your Iso of the Rural and small towns, a small town in kansas called Baldwin City, Kansas has an ISO rating of Class 3. There are roughly 3500-4000 people in this small college town. They have had this for about a year now and was an all volunteer department until about a month ago *October 2007* when they hired their first full time firefighter which I believe works 8-5 monday through friday. They got this rating by improving equipment and gear, as well as the countless hours of training, and apparatus improvements.

  15. #15
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    Wow, a thread from early 2001. I am glad Mr. Brian Humphrey jumped in on this one and took care of the issue.

  16. #16
    makes good girls go bad
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Humphrey View Post
    Most of us are amazed about the (apparent) widespread interest in our agency, its apparatus and endeavors. We are just one Fire Department protecting one municipality.

    Stay Safe!

    Brian
    Brian;

    Not sure if you are still on here, or monitoring, but you guys are widely respected, and looked up to across the nation, and I would suspect, world. Utmost professionalism, dedication to service, and goofy looking lids!

    Large, professional depts get the respect, and admiration from not just the public, but Jakes as well.
    And yours has mine.
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  17. #17
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    Geez, the guy is probably retired by now. lol
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

    IACOJ

  18. #18
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    The last communicatin I got from Brian was that he was thinking about retirement, but had a baby on the way.

    So your guess is as good as mine.

  19. #19
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    Mr Humphries:
    I have to call BS on your comment "LAFD chose not to seek formal and costly..." That is like saying I did not steal the library book, I just did not return it.
    Brian, I assure you your community has an ISO rating, whether or not you 'chose' to participate in the process. You won't hit a home run if you don't step up to the plate. LAFD was the greatest FD, I hope she returns to her roots.

  20. #20
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    Another thread that doesn't have DNR orders.............
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Another thread that doesn't have DNR orders.............
    And to think that this guy, av8r491, got his account today so he could raise the dead!!!

  22. #22
    Some Guy

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    I saw a certain name at the beginning of this post that made me stop and reflect...

    Wow, that was a long time ago.
    This space for rent

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