I live in a small rural town of Texas. Our budget cost each citizen $20.00 per year.
Our police budget cost $60.00 per citizen each year. This a population of 3,500 people. Not all people are taxpayers. We are a volunteer department of 30 members.
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03-26-2001, 01:08 PM #1larry cookFirehouse.com Guest
How much does your dept's budget cost each citizen?
03-26-2001, 02:11 PM #2AdlerFirehouse.com Guest
Well, the figures you have used is close to the national average, unfortunately. The national average is around $25-30 per person. Your city administrator and mine, must have went to the same college. There are a lot of towns that can't get any funding. But, tradionally the figures are accurate. We are a little smaller (2700) and our Fire Dept budget is around $75,000 and EMS is $78,000 with 300 calls a year. But those figures are what is used with the Census figures to propose budgets. If there is anything else I can help you with, please let me know. Sounds as if our budgets and communities are comparable.
[This message has been edited by Adler (edited 03-26-2001).]
[This message has been edited by Adler (edited 03-26-2001).]
03-26-2001, 02:13 PM #3cfr3504Firehouse.com Guest
Our budget pretty much cost each citizen what ever they are willing to donate. We get very little of our money from our county. They do pay for our fuel and electic bills, and tires for our apparatus, but indirectly, it doesn't come from the county, but thru the fire and rescue association which gets most of it's funding thru the county, and all agencies in the county are a member of it. We get a capital improvement allowance of roughly $7,000 from the county if the department owes money on an apparatus, or the building (which we always do). But that's pretty much it.
[This message has been edited by cfr3504 (edited 03-26-2001).]
03-26-2001, 03:19 PM #4SBrooksFirehouse.com Guest
I can tell you the per capita costs of several departments around here. The data are a couple of years old, but certainly within the ballpark.
FD operations only:
Washington, DC $162
Fairfax City, VA $163
Washington, DC $41
Fairfax City, VA $47
Total Fire & EMS
Arlington County, VA $78 (about half the FFs & Stations per capita as others)
Washington, DC $203
Alexandria, VA $161
Fairfax County, VA $71 (Some Volunteers)
Fairfax City, VA $210
Prince William County, VA $110 (combination)
Montgomery County, MD $110 (combination)
Prince George's County, MD $82 (combination)
nationally: (I don't know much about these departments. I know Chesapeake, VA is largely rural)
Glendale CA $102
Chesapeake, VA $93
Yonkers, NY $194
Dallas, TX $125
Nashville, TN $125
Memphis, TN $144
Houston, TX $116
Long Beach, CA $125
03-26-2001, 04:23 PM #5Captain GonzoFirehouse.com Guest
Our Department's original FY2001 budget was $4.875 million dollars. Based on the latest census figures, Marlborough has a population of 36,255 residents.
There are 12,601 taxable residential, commercial and industrial properties in the City. Based on this, the fire department costs an average of $402.69 per tax bill. broken down further, the cost of the Fire Department is $1.10 per day per tax bill.
The total cost per capita for the FD is $134.36 per resident. Further broken down, it is .36 a day per resident, further broken down, it is .15 for the day tour, .21 for the night tour.
The City has just authorized hiring six additional firefighters, which will add approximately $1 miliion to next years budget.
03-26-2001, 04:46 PM #6Dalmatian90Firehouse.com Guest
Local Tax Support:
Fire & EMS First Response: $40/person
Ambulance: Non-tax supported (bill for services)
1) Fire & EMS First Response is the approximate TOTAL. This includes operations funds to two Fire Departments, Fire Marshals Office, Hydrant Fees to a private water company ($35,000/year alone!), LOSAP Volunteer Pension program, Worker's Comp, and depreciation on capital improvements. The Fire Departments actually get about half that as "cash-in-hand" each year.
2) Police budget would be much higher if you add in benefits received but not payed for by local taxes, but still well under national averages. Our town contracts for 2 Resident State Troopers to be assigned full time to our town, and pay 75% of the Troopers salary to the State as the fee. Then we're reimbursed by a Federal Grant for the cost of one of the Troopers. Plus when they're off-duty, which is still over half the hours of each week, we're covered by the normal State Police patrol that covers a five town area.
[This message has been edited by Dalmatian90 (edited 03-26-2001).]
03-26-2001, 05:55 PM #7FAMFirehouse.com Guest
We are at $1298 per person. Budget is just over 10 million, population @7700, 75 career and a dozen or so volunteers and 3 stations.
03-26-2001, 07:13 PM #8S. CookFirehouse.com Guest
Ours is about $50 per person in the city of Granbury. But we pay it back every 2 months in lower insurance rates.
03-26-2001, 10:43 PM #9FitzBFDT2Firehouse.com Guest
It costs about $168 per person for the City of Bayonne.
Hey FAM, Are your numbers correct? We have 195 members and 7 stations in our department with a budget of $11,800,000. You have 75 members and 3 stations and you have a budget of over $10,000,000. Your firefighters would have to be making over $100,000 to even come close to $10,000,000. Please clarify. Thanks. If they are making that much, I think I might be moving to Texas soon.
Kevin M. Fitzhenry, email@example.com
Firefighter, Truck Co. 2
City of Bayonne (NJ) FD
[This message has been edited by FitzBFDT2 (edited 03-27-2001).]
03-27-2001, 12:30 PM #10URSULAFORHANFirehouse.com Guest
$40.00 per household. We don't even have enough adults registered to vote to have a precinct, though we might have 1,000 people in the district when the pulp mills are in full swing. Thankfully, the mills provide some tax base. We have a paid chief and about 15-20 volunteers. Most of our calls are rescue/EMS. We back up the local Coast Guard lifesaving station, and provide mutual aid to a farflung corner of a neighboring district. We have two stations, two engines, a pumper, and two rescue squads, and a command vehicle. One of the mills provided us with confined space equipment.
03-27-2001, 12:35 PM #11FAMFirehouse.com Guest
About 78K for firefighter with benefits and 20K morefor officers. The numbers are right
03-27-2001, 01:46 PM #12larry cookFirehouse.com Guest
From one cook to another cook, I have read several articles that you have written. Yall are sure doing the citizens of Granbury a good job. If I calcilate right, yall provide free fire service and $250.00 back. I wish I could get our citizens to understand that is what we are trying to do by dropping our ISO rating down another point. Save them money. If you are down this way April 7th drop by the station that evening for our fundraiser. A fish fry.
Stay safe. LC
03-27-2001, 02:42 PM #13LooperFirehouse.com Guest
Budget of $950,000 for a population of 50,000. Comes out to $19 per person. Volunteer department with 3 stations and 75 members.
03-27-2001, 04:05 PM #14RJEFirehouse.com Guest
7.3 cents for each $1000 of assessed value of personal and real property. Total budget/population works out to >$700 per person, but that's not realistic. In reality, a renter with a clunker car probably pays <$50 property tax w/ their car tags, not counting the part of the rent that the landlord passes on. But my friend that owns the 8 McDonald's franchises in the area has a 5500sq. ft. house on 15 acres. His real estate tax is $1750 for the house/land, plus several hundred dollars per car, plus the boat, plus the RV, plus the (well, you get the idea).
03-27-2001, 09:51 PM #15S. CookFirehouse.com Guest
Thanks for the kind words. Like all of us that post here, we are doing our best for our community. It took us a while to get them to understand, but once they started seeing the cash benefits of lower rates we got their support (some home owners paid a $600.00 difference between living in the city at the previous class 5 and living 100 yards outside the city at a class 9). But we can't take all of the credit, Larry Stevens has been and continues to be a tremendous help in our efforts.
Unfortunately I have to work nights on the 7th and won't be able to make it down your way, but let me know when the next one is and we'll try. And if you're ever up this way, I'm in the book.
03-29-2001, 09:46 AM #16FireLt1951Firehouse.com Guest
Detroit, $167.00 per resident for Fire and EMS.
03-29-2001, 11:04 AM #17SBrooksFirehouse.com Guest
FAM, out of curiousity, where do you work, you don't have anything under your profile.
03-29-2001, 11:56 AM #18NUMBYFirehouse.com Guest
Im amazed at those numbers FAM. How does your department justify that amount of money? Thats great that you can pay that much, but I just wonder how you justify that much to the tax payer. Where I am from our budget is just a bit over $400,000. Our new census figures say we cover roughly 8200 people in an area of 2.5 sq miles. This computes to about $49 per resident. But another thing not factored in is we are a fire district, so we cover our city as well as another part of the county. This other part is all industrial buildings. The industrial building taxes are probably over half our budget. So that $49 per resident is probably a very conservative number.
Anything I post in the forums is my opinion and does not reflect my department or any organization I belong to.
[This message has been edited by NUMBY (edited 03-29-2001).]
03-23-2002, 07:31 PM #19
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
- Pittsville Volunteer Fire EMS Rescue Department, Inc. Pittsville MD "Pittsville Pride"
Well if we charged each citizen we would charge them aout 150 dollars give or take, our department runs an expence of about 300,000 a year and out district has about 2000 people and that is pushing it.
03-24-2002, 12:00 AM #20
- Join Date
- May 1999
- Berks County, PA
I have a HUGE problem with this...and I'll be ****ed off by the time I'm done typing, but here it goes...
I have to take this question in parts:
Our operating budget (which is primarily funded by donations and fundraising) of about $25,000 annually is worth about $8.50 per live head in town. About 15% of this is tax money. Only 35% of households and about 50% of businesses even bother to respond to solicitations with any money at all. The other 65% and 50%, respectively, apparently believe that their fire protection should be free.
As a result, we accumulate very little toward capital investment, so this year we went to the municipality for help in purchasing new apparatus. The folks who sit on Borough Council understand that fire protection isn't free, so they came through with a 0.5 mil fire tax ($50 per $100,000 of property value). They also kick in in-kind payments worth something like $10,000 per year. All of this amounts to about $70,000 per year, $60,000 of which is earmarked for apparatus, and the total amounts to about $24 per live head. If it weren't for the seven people on Council who understand the real long-run problem we have and are willing to respond to it, we'd be out of business.
So, we end up with about $32.50 per live head, $7.25 of which is given voluntarily and the other $25.25 of which the Borough has to take for us (ultimately) under threat of losing one's home to Sheriff's sale for non-payment of taxes. That's what it takes to get people to pay their fair share. I think it's sad and extremely frustrating to roll out the door at 3:00 in the morning in the snow on a work day knowing that there's a 65% chance that the person whose alarm is going off is too tight-wadded, disinterested or just plain arrogant to pay their fair share.
I'll stop ranting now and suggest this...
Harry Carter wrote a commentary a few weeks ago for Firehouse.com called "Politicians - We Are All Expendible", or something close to that. You should all find it and read it...then forward it to everone who b***hes about paying their fair share.
Last edited by bobsnyder; 03-24-2002 at 12:02 AM.
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