03-31-2001, 10:05 AM #1Ladder ManFirehouse.com Guest
The Detroit Fire Dept. Embarrrassment To The Fire Service Once Again.
DETROIT -- A Detroit firefighter was accused of driving after drinking when he drove a department ladder truck into the back of a car Tuesday, then left the accident scene.
The firefighter, along with a second firefighter who witnessed the accident and also left the scene, was suspended without pay Wednesday, said Fire Commissioner Charles Wilson. The firefighters have not been charged with any crimes yet.
Wilson declined to name the firefighters, but said they face dismissal if the allegations are proven.
The accident, which was minor, occurred about 5:30 p.m. Tuesday while two firefighters were returning Ladder 23 from the department's repair garage to its fire station at Houston-Whittier and Gratiot.
The driver of the 26-ton fire truck allegedly hit a car stopped to turn off Gratiot onto Devine. Apparently unaware he had hit a car, the firefighter drove off until he was flagged down by the car's driver. The second firefighter, driving a personal vehicle behind the fire truck, also pulled over.
The three apparently agreed to handle the situation privately and not involve the police, Wilson said. The car's driver later told police that the fire truck driver smelled of alcohol.
When the firefighters returned to Ladder 23's quarters, they both left work without explanation even though they were supposed to be on duty until Wednesday morning.
The driver of the car then apparently changed his mind and reported the accident to fire officials. The fire department turned the case over to Detroit police's internal affairs section.
Fire officials were not able to track down the firefighters for several hours until the one who wasn't driving the rig showed up at the station around 11 p.m. He declined to give a statement, and police officers did not give him a sobriety test, Wilson said.
The driver of the fire truck was located Wednesday morning.
[This message has been edited by Ladder Man (edited 04-01-2001).]
03-31-2001, 10:39 AM #2FireLt1951Firehouse.com Guest
Don't worry Ladderman. If the allegations are proven true these 2 individuals can kiss their jobs good by. The news story was not exactly all the truth. So now you want to start a ******g contest again. Don't you have anything better to do. No organization this large is going to be 100% perfect. So go ahead and blame 1 or 2 percent of a large Department. Get a life or is this all you have to pass your time! At least we do not hide our problems like a lot of other larger departments. This could have been hidden but at least our department choose not to hide it!
[This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 03-31-2001).]
[This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 03-31-2001).]
03-31-2001, 11:08 AM #3JBingo18Firehouse.com Guest
FireLt1951, I could'nt agree with you more.
Ladderman must be living in fantasy land where nothing goes wrong.
NJ/FMBA is good.
Go NY Yankees!!!!
03-31-2001, 11:49 AM #4KEAFirehouse.com Guest
Please realize that in this great country we are presumed inocent until PROVEN guilty!
Words like accused, if the allegations are proven, allegedly, Apparently etc. are words used in your own post yet you seem to have taken a stead fast position of guilt for these guys.
Let the system work.....and he who has not sinned be the first to throw stones!
First Strike Technologies, Inc
03-31-2001, 12:21 PM #5ffnbsFirehouse.com Guest
There shouldn't be ANY alcohol in the stations in the first place! Your own people are walking around bragging about having a 'pop' after they get back to the station from a worker. If you can't go 8 days a month without alcohol then I guess you have a problem and it needs to be dealt with. You keep defending the seniority promotion system but you are not selling it to well to the rest of the readers here that are reading consistant negative media reports about your department. I fully agree that most of what you do is dealt with professionally and it's sad that poor leaders are letting these things (such as drinking in the station) bring the whole department down.
03-31-2001, 01:14 PM #6RS-1AlumFirehouse.com Guest
My Detroit Brothers have been there for us in ways other than these forums.
I know my job is hurting too but to have any outfit slammed by a guy that can only post "Midwest" is gutless. If they knew your department I know, no Detroit member would start crap like that.
Ffnbs- you're a union brother that proudly displays his local number. Go drive over there and talk to them if you feel that strong. You're from his own state too!
Let Detroit or any other department criticize there own. Do you think stand up dudes would want to crawl down a hall with guys like you?
03-31-2001, 01:49 PM #7ignition_pointFirehouse.com Guest
Even though these individuals are "innocent until proven guilty", and even if they are proven innocent, it still leaves a very bad impression upon the public to see these types of articles even being published. Most of the time, the public makes their own assumptions about such things, and they stick with them even if they are proven otherwise. I think it almost seems hypocritical of those FF's who drive under the influence of alcohol... We are here to protect life and property, and what do they do? The one inherently dangerous thing that goes against what we do. That's just my opinion however....
03-31-2001, 01:52 PM #8hazmat112Firehouse.com Guest
It's sad that we are so quick to condemn each other.....maybe those guys had a drink or two...... MAYBE THEY DIDN'T.
Ladderman, can you honestly say that nobody on your department has never done ANYTHING wrong, or more importantly ALLEGEDLY done anything wrong.
Why are we in such a hurry to point a finger at our brothers and sisters without thinking "Maybe the person that got hit started seeing dollar signs" or maybe someone that they knew has it in for the Fire Department.
The fact is, the truth will never be known it all comes down to "Your word against mine". I have to be totally honest and say that I beleive the stories of my brother and sister firefighters before i beleive ANYONE else.
Blood is thicker than water.....let's try to start doing the right thing and geting ALL of the facts, and in this case the facts will NEVER be known. The only people who know exactly what happened are the ones in the incident.
If they say that it was a simple accident then, in my opinion that's exactly what it was.
If they were drinking then shame on them, but as i had said before they are innocent until proven guilty in my book.
03-31-2001, 04:17 PM #9Big ZeeFirehouse.com Guest
If this is true, do you think it only happens in Detroit? It happens more than anyone is going to admit. We are all blue collar workers and they like to drink. I was always told, cops have the best dope! Please, lets move on - nothing NEW here.
03-31-2001, 04:58 PM #10fc80chiefFirehouse.com Guest
Ladder Man, to say that the whole department is a total embarrasment is just wrong. If the two firefighters at the center of this mess are guilty, then they and the SYSTEM that let this happen are the embarrasment.
I also have to agree with KEA, "innocent until PROVEN guilty". If these guys are guilty though, then they should be strung up (figuratively).
03-31-2001, 05:18 PM #11Ford45Firehouse.com Guest
Hey, Ladder Man, I know you are out there, reading what everyone has to say about you and you're wonderland fire company in midwest eutopia-is it time to appologize yet, I think you owe it to the boys in detroit that DO work there *****es off regardless of whats happening around them. Don't you agree?? Well, i'm gone. Peace.
Newtown Fire Association
04-01-2001, 12:03 AM #12Co11FireChicFirehouse.com Guest
Do you guys really want to go into this again?!?The last time there was a post like this, people bit each others heads off and ridiculed each other for weeks.
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!!!
Formerly know as Co11FireGal (lost my password).
[This message has been edited by Co11FireChic (edited 04-01-2001).]
04-01-2001, 03:53 AM #13cpr4uFirehouse.com Guest
Ladderman...didn't your mother ever teach you not to belive everything you read in the paper. You oght to know that the paper very seldomly tells the truth. That is a fact...they would be out of business if they told 100% truth. Why don't YOU get the facts before pulling the trigger on your own Brothers & Sisters? If you are a brother. Anyone who treats thier own like this ought not call yourself a brother of mine!
Stand tall Detroit!
04-01-2001, 10:23 AM #14FF.1205Firehouse.com Guest
Reread your opening sentence. Would you call this post you way taking care of Bro's and Sis's from other FD's. I'll reserve my comments about that. Everyone of DFD FF's I have met and even worked with are top notch FF's.
INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY!
Ever thought of sharing with the rest of the country what FD your from? Sounds like your FD is a role model for the rest of us.
STAY LOW. Fight like you Train and Train like you Fight.
04-01-2001, 11:28 AM #15FLAME5Firehouse.com Guest
DAMN, HERE WE GO AGAIN!
IT'S IS WRONG TO DRINK WHILE ON DUTY,(IF IT WAS REALLY DONE) BUT IT IS ALSO WRONG TO ACCUSING A HOLE DEPARTMENT OF BEING AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE FIRE SERVICE BECAUSE OF A FEW CHILDISH SOULS.
BUT I DO AGREE WHAT THESE FIREFIGHTERS DID WAS WRONG
04-01-2001, 02:25 PM #16Ford45Firehouse.com Guest
100% correct. but regardless, they will continue this until the tread is closed or they lose interest. As for my previous post, just appologize and get it over with so we can concentrate on real matters on other treads, will ya ladderman?? Peace!
Newtown Fire Association
04-01-2001, 02:55 PM #17firefighter15_wvFirehouse.com Guest
I think the whole thing is kind if sad. I think that for some reason, the only news you hear about Detroit FD, is bad news. You don't hear about a house they saved, or an extrication well done, or about the lives they save. However, as soon as they make a mistake, everyone know's about it. Also, it sickens me the way alot of us are quick to point the finger. How many of you know what really went on? I am sure that in alot of cases, there were circumstances beyond Detroit FD's control that contributed to most of their tragic outcomes. The next time, before you are so quick to judge, ask yourselves, "what if this was my department?" And don't think that it couldn't happen to you. All it takes is one mistake.
With that said, if these guys were driving under the influence, then appropriate actions should be taken. However this wouldn't make Detroit FD a shame to the fire service, if anything it would make these two individuals a shame to the fire service.
04-01-2001, 07:10 PM #18FLAME5Firehouse.com Guest
AGREED! SUCH IS LIFE (ALLWAYS CONCENTRATING ON THE NEGETIVE VIBE!)THAT'S IS WHY TRUST IS SO HARD TO FIND NOW DAYS. ONLY RIDICULE.
I DOUBT ANY APOLOGIE WILL BE MADE, I FEEL THIS POST WAS MADE ONLY TO THROW MUD ON THE DETROIT FIRE DEPT. I THINK THIS GUY IS PROBABLY MAD FOR NOT PASSING THE ENTRANCE EXAM OR SOMETHING. I REALLY DON'T CARE, I SAY JUST IGNORE THE POST.
BE SAFE ALL
04-01-2001, 07:55 PM #19INDY FIREFirehouse.com Guest
I agree. Nothing more can be said. If everyone would stop fueling the fire on this subject, it will probably go away. Let me be the last post on this subject. To the Brothers and Sisters of the Detroit Fire Department, BE SAFE!!!
04-01-2001, 08:35 PM #20Ford45Firehouse.com Guest
Funny, now everyone is mad at ladder man instead of the dfd. If an apology was made, it would end everything. (hint hint)
04-02-2001, 04:55 PM #21RJEFirehouse.com Guest
Yes, in the eyes of the law, they're innocent until proven guilty - BUT - there's another "law" out there.
Any of you guys a PIO? Any of you work on a dept that HAS a PIO? Ever worked with a public relations company or consultant?
Little things can become big fires. FireLT, I understand your position completely about don't blame the whole dept for one or two "bad apples" - but the flip side is, from a PR standpoint - it's much better for the dept to deal with this quickly and make the resolution public. If they're guilty, the dept. needs to (may have already, but I don't read Detroit papers) put out a press release that they are, and that they've been dealt with. If the dept. doesn't, then because they're the ones in the news, they BECOME the DFD. On the other hand, if they're innocent, that also needs to be trumpeted as loud and as long as necessary. Make sure the press reports it just as prominently as the original story, so the public knows the DFD was wronged by the press.
Now, for Ladderman: If you're going to quote large portions of a news article, you need to cite the source. You're violating copyright if you don't. It also helps the rest of us go find it - in case you didn't quote the whole thing. Sometimes what's left out is as important as what's stated.
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