Wow, it sure doesn't take much to get peoples feathers ruffled around here, does it?
First, my statement about booster lines was meant to be a humorous, sarcastic, facetious, whatever you want to call it reference to the fact that you just don't see them much anymore (or at all, depending on the dept.) I have pulled a few booster lines in my day and didn't make any judgement about their merits or lack thereof, but since you got me started:
"Booster line is suitable for ALMOST anything that doesn't have a foundation."
Huh? I can't think of any fire that can't be put out faster and better with an 1 3/4" trash line flowing 150+ GPM as opposed to a booster hose flowing 25 to 50. Autos, trucks, dumpsters, outside rubbish, etc. The faster you put the fire out, the better. It's safer and we get back in service for the next run quicker. The only positive aspect of booster lines I can think of is on natural cover fires...they can be dragged through wooded areas easier. Only problem...I haven't been on a brush fire in two or three years.
"no worries about getting kinks in it, no worries about having to flake 100' of hose"
If you can't run a 100 foot 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" hose line on an outside fire without having problems flaking it out and kinks, maybe you should practice more. Preferably before you have to stretch 300' of 2 1/2" into a smoke filled taxpayer basement.
"...and wash downs at MVAs"
If your dept. is still washing vehicle fluids into storm drains you're wrong. These empty into streams, creeks, rivers, etc. Spills should be picked up with absorbent material and disposed of properly. Maybe you should ask your state's EPA or DOE.
How do you sensitive guys survive the firehouse kitchen?
[This message has been edited by NozzleHog (edited 04-06-2001).]
Results 21 to 40 of 63
Thread: traashline in front bumper
04-06-2001, 01:30 PM #21NozzleHogFirehouse.com Guest
04-06-2001, 05:45 PM #22dr infernoFirehouse.com Guest
Booster Line and a Vehicle Fire?
Am I glad I do not work for you.
Any vehicle fire should be attacked with a minimum 1 and a 1/2 inch hand line and should also have a back line as well. (You can look it up in the IFSTA Essentials Fourth edition page 548 if you want.)As for the old guys having it right I do not think so or we all would still be using leather buckets!!
04-07-2001, 12:14 PM #23PA VolunteerFirehouse.com Guest
We have 50 feet stacked with a handle at the bottom and the second 50 feet donut rolled. Grab the donut roll and the nozzle, stick it under your arm, yank the handle out, walk as far as you need, drop the donut and you're ready to go. Fairly simple to repack also. Got the idea from Kentland ... thanks 33. Stay Safe.
04-07-2001, 01:29 PM #24LHS*Firehouse.com Guest
04-07-2001, 01:56 PM #25oz10engineFirehouse.com Guest
What are you using it for? If your using it for trash,dumpsters,and autos who cares how it's packed cause you're really in no hurry to get the line in service. We donut roll the first 50' and flat the other 50' just so if we need only 1 section the coupling is easy to find.
04-08-2001, 01:31 AM #26ADSN/WFLDFirehouse.com Guest
While not on the front bumper one of our rigs carry 100' 1 1/2" flat loaded in a well on our side step. I can't see why it wouldn't work just as well on the front bumper. I have to agree with oz10engine if it's just for rubbish fires who cares how it's packed.
I've got a question for LHS, just what department are you an active member of? You just showed us a department from CO. to me it seems a little bit of a long commute to NV. Just curious.
04-08-2001, 02:01 AM #27Eng522ineFirehouse.com Guest
NozzleHog... Sorry if I came across as having an attitude, it was not intended. No ruffled feathers here. LOL... takes a LOT more than anything that could be said in one of these forums to get me going.
Also, as far as the higher flow rate of the inch and a half goes, we have most of our vehicle fires on or near the interstate that passes through town and we're stuck using tank water only on them. Not for nuttin but 500 gallons goes a lot further through a booster.
As far as my reference to kinks and flaking out hose goes, I was again referring to our usual "side of the highway" car fire. The state troopers here generally don't buy into the whole "safety lane" concept. We've actually had troopers threaten to lock up drivers for stopping too far from the fire(50-75' before) and also for trying to take a safety lane.
Dr inferno... I didn't say that the old timers had EVERYTHING right... I was referring to booster lines. I have personally used booster lines on many vehicle fires and have found them plenty capable of doing the job safely. I have only come across 2 vehicle fires that required more than a booster line (one was multiple cars in a parking lot, the other was an 18 wheeler with the cab fully involved). As I said in my original post "Just like anything else you have to know when it's appropriate to use and when it's not." In other words, "little fire... little water... big fire ... big water." I'd never tell an experienced firefighter NOT to use what he was comfortable using. I personally am comfortable using a booster line on ALMOST every vehicle fire and I have done so safely and effectively as recent as yesterday. Just my opinion though.
04-08-2001, 02:52 AM #28LHS*Firehouse.com Guest
//You just showed us a department from CO. to me it seems a little bit of a long commute to NV.
Gee lots of towns have me help them with their apparatus. I just hop on a plane. The Colorado FD and a Texas FD gave me complete control of thier fleets so I didn't need to go there. I designed the rattlesnake rigs bumper for 5' tall firefighters working in heavy snow.
Some of the folks on line here I've helped recently include: Buck fd 13 rigs, SFDD 13 rigs, SCooks FD 11 rigs, Station2 rigs (Stafford 2 and Houston 85), BFD 8 rigs, LVFD3 4 rigs, bigpauley 22 rigs, rattlesnake 3, fallon 4, berthod 8, AVFD 9, AMCO 21, some towns in NJ 6 rigs, NC, FL, CO, NV, CA not over 60 right now.
No biggie really, lots of folks let you help them with their rigs if you help them get the money to buy whatever they want.
//what department are you an active member of?
Gee I try not to be an active member of any one department, I think 12 or 13 departments are paying me right now though. I think that is more fun than belonging to just one FD.
04-09-2001, 01:01 AM #29ADSN/WFLDFirehouse.com Guest
So if you aren't an active firefighter anywhere, how do you get to try out and evaluate new tactics and products? Do the departments you consult for let you ride along and give you the nob?
What a bunch of great guys.
I know by me we wouldn't let a rider take the nob from us.
I've found that what works well on paper or at a drill doesn't always work as well under the stress and conditions found on at a real incident.
Flash, try whatever load you want at drills then if you can, put it on the rig for a trial period. Let several people in on the evaluation process and see what works for you and your department.
04-10-2001, 12:06 AM #30ONTFFFirehouse.com Guest
dont have a front bumper line, just angle in so we can pull a crosslay (need 1.75" for MVA's now anyway), also gives you some protection on the road, what would be nice is a front mounted booster line like phoenix has on their engines, any phoenix ff's offer thier opinion on front booster line?
04-10-2001, 09:21 AM #31Jay SonnenfeldFirehouse.com Guest
I think everybody has their own valid points on this subject and whatever works best for each company don't change. I just want to ask one question.I was always under the impression that any hose under 1 1/2 is considered a booster line or trash line. (1" vinyl or 3/4 rubber ) used mainly for trash or brush and yes in days of old MVA washdowns.My question is just because its mounted on the front bumper why is it called a trash line especially if you carry 1 1/2 or 1 3/4 at lengths of 100' or 150'. This same line can be used for interior operations? I'm not being sarcastic I just want other opinions and answers because I teach class on this and I've ask this question before and didn't really get a answer. I would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks and be safe
04-10-2001, 09:58 AM #32ADSN/WFLDFirehouse.com Guest
Our "trash line", in Addison, is a total of 150' 1 3/4" in two 75' sections. The reason it has a different designation is that it is a heavy duty nitrile jacketed hose, like LDH.
We could use it for structure fires but chose to just use it for autos, dumpsters, etc. The advantage is that it can be rinsed off at the scene and repacked wet. It is only taken off while it is being tested. At that time we usually give it a good washing also.
Hope that helped
04-10-2001, 08:05 PM #33RescueCoFiremanFirehouse.com Guest
I agree with Jay Sonnefield's response and question as to what you consider a "trash-line" You fellas mention having 100', 150' of 1-3/4" line. Why so much? I mentioned earlier if anyone has a booster reel on their pumpers. But if not, pulling 50' of hose is more than enough. Let me ask how far away do you park the pumper from a car or dumpster fire? We pull, well pretty much within 50' of it. As ENGINE522 agreed with me, 500gal will last a while when your using a booster reel. You don't need to hook into a hydrant. Besides, in my area there are no hydrants on the highways so we have no choice but to draw from the booster tank. If we drain the booster tank we call another pumper. For these types of fires we don't get well involved as to hooking in a feeder to a hydrant. If you can't put out a dumpster fire or a car fire with 500gal of water you need to better manage the use of your water supply. Now if there was a compactor fire or a car fire in a parking garage. Then different steps are taken. But for basic outside rubbish/dumpster fires and car fires a simple booster line will work fine.
Not that I am against any of your tactics guys but it seems from some of you overkill. Example: "Drop a 4" feeder and lay in from the hydrant, pull 150' of 1-3/4" line and flake it out. Pull another 150' feet of 1-3/4" line as a back up". It seems more of the work is not putting the fire out but taking up, breaking down and repacking the hose. On a busy highway I wouldn't want to do that whether the PD is there or not to control traffic.
04-11-2001, 08:39 AM #34ADSN/WFLDFirehouse.com Guest
To some extent I would have to agree with your overkill statement but, I think it is much better to assume that something could go wrong at that car or dumpster fire and park accordingly. I feel that 50' is to close if something does go wrong. ie Bad stuff burning in the dumpster, fuel tank failing in a car.
A few times a year we have a dumpster fairy that keeps us quite bust and during that time you will often see a roll of 1 3/4" with a nozzle so we don't have to pull the trash line. This is the exception and not the rule.
04-11-2001, 10:49 AM #35dr infernoFirehouse.com Guest
You may call it overkill I call it Firefighter safety. The reason for all these lines are to protect the firefighters as a car fire is usually a "write-off" anyway. As well it does take longer to pack up and get back in service but that is still a lot less time then it takes for burns or other injuries to heal. Not pulling the lines for safety purposes, I think is laziness and that is a word and trait that I DON'T associate with the fire service!
04-11-2001, 02:57 PM #36RescueCoFiremanFirehouse.com Guest
My tactics have nothing to do with laziness or lack of firefighter safety. I do take safety precautions at all incidents. But I guess for an incident such as a car fire or trash fire I don't see putting in a whole lot of effort into it. As far as having a back up line, instead of pulling off another pre-connect, why not wait unitl you need it if necessary then pull it? Even you stated that the car on fire is a loss anyway. And nothing will be salvaged from a dumpster. Being within 50' isn't bad...consider the reach of the water stream.
The trashline concept is a good idea. I guess I am just an advocate for having a booster hose reel instead. The concept of having trashline or a quick attack line for small fires is nothing new. It is just a spin off of what the the booster reel was there for.
04-12-2001, 04:15 PM #37Eng522ineFirehouse.com Guest
dr inferno... I agree 100% with your motivation. But lets remember, using an elephant gun on a mouse is not inherently safe, in other words by using an inch and a half line on a car fire doesn't guarantee safety. I mean c'mon now, IF the fuel tank does blow, are you safer holding an inch and a half line?? I think not. Hey, if we want to sanitize firefighting why don't we do deck gun knock downs on car fires? Totally unrealistic but, hey, I guarantee you nobody will get hurt doing it!
The long and short of it is simply that we all do dangerous work and there's very few times while on any scene that we're very safe. It's my opinion that any measure of safety that using an inch an a half may give you, on a car fire, is greatly out weighed by the reduced amount of time that you're on the scene when using a booster line. Whether it's on a town street or an interstate highway, the cars driving past you are the greatest danger at a car fire. The less time that you're exposed to that danger, the safer you are. A booster line, operated at appropriate pressure, will give you plenty of water to knock the car fire down and extinguish it and the fact that all you have to do is rewind the reel and clear the scene is where you become safer using a booster line. You're not out on the side of the highway rolling hose waiting for some nutcase to tag you with his car because he's trying to get through the traffic faster.
Long Live Red Rubber Hose!!
04-12-2001, 06:41 PM #38oz10engineFirehouse.com Guest
This is a reply to Jay Sonnenfeld's question. At the place I work at we have a line on the front bumper which we call the trash line. It's 2 - 50' sections of worn 1-1/2" hose that may have a pinhole here and there or the outer jacket was torn, and that isn't suitable for interior ops. We painted the couplings to tell them apart from the other 1-1/2". All we use it for is outside stuff like autos,trash,etc. A place that I vollie at from time to time has 2 lines on their front bumper 150' 1-1/2" each, they use these for their main interior attack lines and it works good. They are referred to as the bumper line or the 150 (they have no other 150' line on the piece).On another subject the only reason for using 1-1/2 instead of booster line on trash and stuff is more water. Instead of using a booster line on a deep seated trash fire and screwing around for 20 minutes, pull the trash line and flood it, you'll be out of there sooner. I also have used my preconnected deck gun (deluge gun,wagon pipe) on dumpsters numerous times. Just pull up to it, fill it up and leave.
04-12-2001, 07:30 PM #39148champFirehouse.com Guest
Our newest engine came complete with a booster line mounted in the rear compartment behind a nifty roll-upo door - space that could have been used for a multitude of functions/apliances! The chief said it had to be there - would work great on car fires, etc! Now our small car fires can become big car fires!!! besides taking up valuable space, it added more weight to the rig and also several thousand extra dollars!! it could have been worse - he wanted to have it mounted on the extended front bumper initially!!!! Yikes!!!!! Would have been a conversation piece on parade day, that's for sure!!! Sorry to say - booster reels went out with leather lungers!!!! Both of these antiquated fire service 'standards' can get you killed!!
04-12-2001, 10:48 PM #40ONTFFFirehouse.com Guest
148champ, yes i do agree that maybe it wasn't the greatest spot (the rear) but lets look at it this way, maybe it could have been on top of the truck and more of a pain to pull the line, and a booster can be used quite effectively in the right conditions, if it doesn't flow enough sure pull our almighty 1 3/4 but for a small rubbish or car fire its plenty, and easy pick up too, used 'em on chimney fires, cars, brush, its all about having the OPTION, the front mounted position i think would be all right, on a small fire you could probably nose in on it fairly close and the truck provides you with all that protection
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