Larry, so their is no confusion or even assumptions: From what you have said in numerous posts people have been lead to a logical conclusion that you are a member of the Fallon, NV fire department. Regardless of what you did for or with that department in the past, you are NOT an active member of that department now. Isn't that correct?
And in this post you are implying that you are an active member of Rattlesnake. You may have been paid as a consultant for work you did for them but you are NOT a member of that department, isn't that correct?
I'm not saying that you don't have anything to offer the fire service. I just don't appreciate the misrepresentations you post.
I would like to know where you have gotten your experience. Consulting and watching is not firefighting. Training is not experience either, it certainly helps you prepare for the real thing, but it isn't the uncontrolled environment of a structure fire.
"I guess by your measure Brannigan and Carter can't speak or, Smith, or Dunn...either becuse they aren't holding hoses either?????"
I said that I hold the highest respect for retired guys from busy towns. Those guys are proven, they have the reverence of the fire service because they have done the job for years. Chief Dunn worked for the busiest department in the world for an entire career. Their are buildings in NYC that have more people in them than whole towns by you.
I'll agree that fire is the same on the east coast as it is in the west, but I'm talking about volume of calls. A five year FDNY FF has more experience than a 30 year vet in most places.
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Thread: traashline in front bumper
04-16-2001, 04:38 PM #61ADSN/WFLDFirehouse.com Guest
04-16-2001, 05:27 PM #62LHS*Firehouse.com Guest
// Where is the rest of the water coming from?
A fire truck.
//The best the charts say is with a EP of 250 and 250' of 2" hose you can get 275 GPM.
And 275 is “nowhere near” 282 gpm??
//How can Rattlesnake extend that line another 150' and lower the pressure 50 lbs and still get more water out?
Better hose friction loss, or pump plumbing, gauge inaccuracy, using by the book hydraulics, or, or, or? I wasn’t there when TFT did their tests were you? I don’t think they used a Rattlesnake rig either.
TFT says the FL is 50 psi per 00 feet of hose at 250 gpm. Ponn lists 2” at 250 gpm at 23 psi FL, National 2” 32 psi, Angus 24-27-28 and Flexline lists the same Could it be the TFT friction loss is calculated and the others are based upon flow testing?
//Personally I'd take the high flows and lower nozzle reaction of a vindicator.
// I just looked at TFT's website and none of the data suggests that you can flow anywhere near that
Gee 282 isn’t “anywhere near” 250 gpm? 275 isn’t close to 282 gpm? Seems to me the charts more than prove the flows .
In fact the nozzle will do it according to TFT’s chart at 100 or in the low pressure position.
Hey when you find a chart for a low pressure automatic let me know. Guess what will change?
By the book reaction at 250 is 126 lbs at 100 psi, the TFT tests show 127 lbs. At 75 pounds NP the reaction is 109 lbs and at 50 it is 89 lbs.
So just how much lower is your nozzle reaction in fact what is your nozzle reaction???? What is your flow out the end of 400 feet of attack line?
//And in this post you are implying that you are an active member of Rattlesnake.
Where or where do you come up with that conclusion the same place you came up with Colorado being in Nevada?
//I would like to know where you have gotten your experience.
Fighting fire, is that ok?
//Their are buildings that have more people in them than whole towns by you.
That’s nice, we both handle our own calls don’t we?
//I'll agree that fire is the same on the east coast as it is in the west, but I'm talking about volume of calls. A five year FDNY FF has more experience than a 30 year vet in most places
So with does that have to do with trash lines? Water flow, hose, apparatus and nozzles they don’t use? You’re not from FDNY so you no longer have the right to post? What relevance does FDNY have to a rural community without hydrants, or your alleged two fire departments? 30 guys on initial attack in 6 minutes means FDNY is the unusual not the norm in the US fire service. The fact they vertically ventilate before the squirt water makes them different than most FD’s, too. So, is there a point here?
Seeing as how I’m answering all your questions how about answering what I have asked you in the past, please.
//Yeah can’t possibly learn from anyone who works in 7 departments a week only from people who belong to one department??? Please explain.
Sorry I retired, is that a sin?????
//It's great that Fallon has such wonderful rigs, but like previous posts, the Fallon rigs wouldn't work everywhere. "but nosing in always works"
I don’t know how to break this to you, BUT we are talking about apparatus from Colorado…DUH The out of context quote is quite clear saying “out here” nosing in always works.” Well doesn’t it?
//I guess in the middle of the desert you don't have cars falling off of the expressway 200+ feet from the road,
If you go back and read the post, you will see it says “out here”, not anywhere else, 200 foot expressways are not in the response district so that is why they built the rig for that response. Is that ok?
// where the best way to the patient is by bringing the power unit and tools to the wreck.
However if you’d looked at the posted link you would have seen portable power units, hoses and tools for use away from the rig on every rig. So if your advice is to design apparatus for the call you’ll never have or someone else’s turf, I think that’s bad advice. But in this case they’d work just fine wouldn’t they? The rigs in question, from COLORADO, No Desert There! Are setup exactly for the calls they handle not anyone else’s. Anything wrong with that?
//We don't need a kitchen in every rig. We aren't more than a half of a mile from a convenience mart any where in our, or our neighbors districts.
Good for you, did someone suggest you had to have one????
///We also don't place all of our eggs in one basket,
Gee, three identical rigs from three station is all your eggs in one basket? DO you even know what you are talking about?
// from the sound of it if Fallon's rig breaks down you can't run anything.
Oh really, please make your case if you can. What makes your rig different than theirs?
//It is hard to believe you when I find out that you haven't used some of these new products and techniques at 3 AM at a real incident.
Are you sure about that? What is new??? I’m sure a majority of products I have as much or more experience with as anyone with the so called new products or techniques. Please list any you don’t think it is true.
// I have had the impression that you are an active firefighter, responding to calls, putting out fires, extricating victims of wrecks, at the Churchill/Fallon VFD.
So every time I speak you assume I'm talking about Fallon even though I post photos from Colorado, Texas, Indiana, New Jersey, Montana, etc?
//I won't take any credit for your impressions. I certainly have done all those things at times in FCVFD. Is that ok? Do you think I forgot it all already? How can anyone be a chief, they’d no longer be holding a hose?
//Tell me what is new?
//I wasn't aware we had to post a resume to post on these forums...do we???
//At the end of the article the author, who is a rater for ISO,
WHO WAS A RATER FOR ISO. NOW A fire department CONSULTANT for ISO affairs. You really need to pay attention to bios. He is a consultant right???
//warns us to be very careful about getting information from people who claim to be experts about ISO.
Well, he is one. Is he warning you to stay away from him too?
The "Fallon Tip" is made by both Iowa American and TFT. The ball valve with the down facing threads is what we call a fallon tip. The smooth bores are by Iowa American known as stubs MST and OST by name. So are you clear on this?
//So based on that can I call a 15/16th smooth bore an Addison tip instead of a FDNY tip because we have them on the rigs in Addison?
You can call whatever you want to call whatever you want to call it, the fact it is in Iowa Americans catalog as a Fallon Tip or if you call TFT and ask for a Fallon tip they will know what you are talking about. Is there another product on the market used by someone that looks like what rattlesnake or fallon use? Did we copy it from anyone, did we steal it or did we innovate it?
04-17-2001, 09:58 PM #63dcfdltFirehouse.com Guest
Gentlemen Larry(?) and ADSN/WFLD:
I appreciate the level of thought and discourse as I am sure most others would agree. There is a good article by Carl Welser in the April Fire Engineering about "Blending Visions," that I think would be apt whether the discussion is management or apparatus design. I am not sure if you put your left or right thumb on top when you fold your hands but the point is there are thousands of ways to skin a cat.
I can't see how some of the apparatus designs can work effectively now a days, but that's fine...they work for the jurisdiction and the people running the calls IN THE LOCALE. With narrow city streets with cars within a foot of either side of a firetruck, like DC, things like ladder racks and the lack of front suction would make the job difficult. Obviously in other areas with longer response times and manpower issues(uh, personal), the maximization of space and tools is a priority.
Good luck and keep up the knowledable posts.
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