1. #1
    oz10engine
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question On the scene, nothing showing...WHAT AND WHO GOES IN ?

    What do you do or bring in with you on those, on the scene nothing showing calls ? And who goes in ?... I know it depends on what type of building it is, and how much manpower you have. So here's a couple of scenes and tell me what you would do or what your SOP's say........SCENE #1--You are dispatched for an apt fire on the 2nd floor of a 3 story garden-style apt. You are the first arriving engine co. with 4 men. You arrive on the scene with nothing showing....................SCENE #2-- You are dispatched for smoke on the 4th floor of a 6 story apt building (no standpipe or sprinkler) You are the first arriving engine co. with 5 men. You arrive on the scene with nothing showing............ OK LETS HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON THESE SCENES AND THE SUBJECT

  2. #2
    PA Volunteer
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    Scene #1 - Officer gives preliminary assignment to communications for the next in engine to pickup the hydrant and first in truck to come to side 1. Officer and FF enter with irons, can, and hook to investigate. 2nd FF begins to pull a line to the front door of the building. Adjust from there depending on what you find.

    Scene #2 - Same as Scene #1 except FF's 2&3 stretch a three inch supply line to the front door of the building and connect a high rise pack from there.

    These are my initial thoughts without going into too much detail. This is a great idea - interested in seeing how other people handle specific scenarios. Thanks OZ!

  3. #3
    Engine 101
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Scene 1 have officer direct orders to othe incoming companys have them stand by at certain points, Go and investigate check the doors for heat look for any signs of smoke evacuate the building

    Scene 2 once again have all incoming company's stand by 1 block away, Evacuate the upper floors, Try to locate where the smoke may be at, Check the doors and other areas for heat keep a crew downstairs ready with a line

  4. #4
    ESmith
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Talking

    Both scenarios you have to go like it's the real deal.

    Scene #1 Stretch 250' line. Hopefully the officer will grab some forcible entry tools, if available.

    Scene #2 a few options available. There are numbered in order of preference.

    Option #1
    4th floor or lower I like to stretch a preconnect 400', that depends on how far from the front of the builiding you are and how deep in the building you travel for the stairwell. Since these buildings are unique hopefully they are pre-planned and know the stretch. Things to look for are the stairwells open (stretching lines between railings), since we cant drag hose on inspections recommend a roll of string ,measured out to your longest line, this will give you a good idea how far you can stretch in before needing help. I always have layout man bring a rack to extend if necessary. (I'm used to 4 man operation not 5), this means the officer will pull second load stretching in, long lines require all members to be placed properly.

    Option #2
    An old bleach bottle cut in half with some rope and quick clips in it. Throw from window let wagon driver hook up to your long line and hoist the line on the outside of the building. Benefits of this option you can bring some forcible entry tools with you. Line is already connected to engine no outside connections to be made.

    Option #3
    Both members bring the racks, and hopefully there is a high rise bag available for the officer to bring along 50' standpipe rolled. When you come up short its typically in the apt. and cant make the bend the 50' will be more than enough. The back step guys will throw the bags from the window and the wagon driver will hook up same. Key points reliable wagon driver?, discuss before entering where from the building the racks will be lowered before entering.

    On the above options above, you must discuss the options and come to an agreement a long time before the box is sounded. Great deal of team work is needed to pull it off.
    Don't forget to check the floor below to find the location of the apt. # in case you open up the 4th floor to a wall of smoke.

    Pulling lines are basic operations and we should practice every chance we get, so we can learn our mistakes on the "nothing showing" runs and be ready for the real deal.

    Good post OZ you baited me in!

    [This message has been edited by ESmith (edited 04-19-2001).]

  5. #5
    Engine58
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    ok here I go....first scenerio Have the 1st Eng On scene bring there crew to the stairwell with a Hi-Rise pack (if there are standpipes in the building) if not then simply a water can will do for now. 2nd engine standby at the hydrant..1st ladder on scene have them stretch a line to the stairwell and standby...have engine 2's manpower report to the bottom stairwell with the Truck Co & standby as FAST team... have 3rd engine pull up by the ladder truck Grab a set of irons And water can...have Eng 1's crew head up to the 2nd floor....eng 3's crew head up to the 3rd floor....Have engine 4 pull up by engine 1 and send there crew to the rear and hang out to see if anything shows up while crews are inside investigating...of course everyone has SCBA on.. Scenerio 2....I'd have to say send your crew to the 4th floor with a water can & irons...If Eng 1 reports confirmed smoke on the 4th floor then have 2nd eng stretch a 3 inch supply line to the 3rd floor stairwell hook up a portable hydrant then hook a (2)1 1/2 to that....stretch the lines to the 4th floor and give the line to eng 1.....2nd eng crew search the other end of the 4th floor while eng 1 searchs half...3rd eng have there crew search the 3rd floor any other units standby in teh lobby & outside.. thats all I could think of...Just got into the Fire service as an explorer so I did the best I could.....#2 was a hard one hehehe

    ------------------
    Andrew
    South Amboy, New Jersey
    Explorer Engine 6 So. Amboy Fire Dept & Cadet Morgan FAS
    "EMTS DON'T DIE THEY JUST STABILIZE"
    http://engine058.boltpages.com/southamboyfiredepartmentexplorerpost6/

  6. #6
    Skidz
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    OZ10Engine,

    Ok, well I am not going to sound like a "Salty Dog" nor am I going to say that we act the same every time we get that possible alarm. Bottom line we are not perfect and although each and everyone’s post to this gentleman’s question are good and I hope are done on each similar scenario he gave us. Face it firefighters get complacent and that will bite us in the *** every time.

    Ok, off the soapbox. Of course there are many what ifs but what is likely to happen is small line guy would either hang out at the engine or go up with the officer. Again this is all depending on the construction of the garden apartment. The truck company would grab the appropriate tools and maybe the water can and go to the reported location.

    The second one I would have to stay primarily the same only having a plan to incorporate what two others have said. Hoisting a 3" or 2.5" line as a standpipe from the outside using rope or bring the line with you and deploy it from the window.

    Well, please understand that my department strives to be on the cutting edge and I think we do a really good job but complacency kills. The ideas in this post are mine and not of my department. Be Safe.

    SKIDZZ



    ------------------
    PROUD, PROFESSIONAL, PROGRESSIVE


    Member IAFF Local 1664
    esfpd444@starpower.net

  7. #7
    e53NSB
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    All responses to the question seem pretty good, We just have to remember, as a company officer we need to finish a good continuing size-up. The most important answer to this scenerio is, what do we actually have, not what was reported. Also where is the reported problem really at, a fire reported on the 4th floor, might not actually be on the 4th floor. Before stretching all the hose, locate the fire location first. If you think its a pain in the neck making the initial stretch, try stretching to the wrong apartment building initially, not only is it unprofessional, but its down right embarrassing..The officer needs to take one of his FF's and a can, investigate, leave the chauffer and a ff at the engine. Keep the truck responding emergency, and stage the 2nd due engine at the hydrant.

  8. #8
    oz10engine
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Oz here, thanks for the posts guys. Everyone had some good ideas and started to get the ball rolling one way or another, that's one of the things I was looking for. Get the hoselines and some basic tools moving and/or get the manpower in a ready position. On any 2 or more floor buildings it's good to give a quick check to each floor on the way up to the reported floor. Just my thoughts on your posts... it's important to think about about what other apparatus is on the way and what they are going to do, but don't get caught up with that too much, think what you're gonna do, your there . Don't have ladders bring hoselines and engines bring tools off the ladder, to confusing, just asking for trouble. Stretching hoselines or bringing a highrise pack to the reported floor is not overkill, It's fun, it's doing your job and it's great practice. I think stretching a line to the wrong apartment may be a little embarrassing, but more of an unfortunate thing, if you have a good crew they'll recover fast. I think it would be more unprofessional and embarrassing if a company was having problems and fumbling around trying to make the initial stretch in a building, up the stairwell, and/or down the hallway because they have never done that before, been a while since they did it, or haven't done it enough to become proficient at it. Remember, their are a couple ways to do things, and these posts show that. Keep up the good thought process.

  9. #9
    Fire Eater 07
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    for the 1st one: The Captain and 1 Firefighter go up (the firefighter will sometimes have an axe,or halligan- depends on station and capt.s methods) and the 2nd FF will stand by the crosslay and be ready to pull or get another piece of equipment(tool box more likely, or an extinguisher)

    #2....well this is pretty much the same, just with more people and a bigger building...always have the next in pumper stand by hydrant...and truck to a corner, and hopefully youll already have more knowledge en route from the alarm co. or building security on if there is a fire, and what floor.etc....and be ready for the unexpected
    stay safe

    ------------------
    Engine / Squad Co.# 7

  10. #10
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Smile

    Situation # 1: The Officer and Two Firefighters Enter the Bulding to Investigate bringing in Set of Irons, Hook and Can and of Course SCBA {Not on Air Unless Conditions Warrant } Second Engine to the Closest Hydrant and Stand-By and First Truck to the Front of the Building and Stand-By

    Situation # 2: I would do the Same Thing except have a crew ready in the lobby with a High-Rise Pack ready to go --- Don't see a need to actually stretch the supply line unless there is confirmation of fire but each department has diffrent SOP's on how to handle a High-Rise --- In my town we have a six story hospital that is piped and sprinklered and has 24hr. security so we usually know upon arrival what we have and work based on that information

    ------------------
    STRATFORD FIRE CO. # 1 NEW JERSEY STATE FIREMEN'S CONVENTION OVER-ALL CHAMPIONS 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2000 !!

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