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  1. #21
    MB1213635
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    LHS,

    Posting that entire accident report was a little uncalled for. No need to put all the guys names up there. Sh*t happens. Accidents are pretty much unavoidable in a large department that operates in an urban area with tight streets and lots of congestion.


  2. #22
    ENGINE18-3
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    BTW Nate, how do you know everybody and everything? You must be a hit around the firehouse.
    Simply put...if you can't be good, be everywhere. Sorry for the cut down but I always have been looking for a time to use that.
    Well when you are always on your knees.....
    I've been waiting to use that one!

    ------------------
    The statements above are my own opinions

    FF Greg Grudzinski
    Oaklyn Fire Dept.
    Station 18-3

    [This message has been edited by ENGINE18-3 (edited 05-04-2001).]

  3. #23
    Staylow
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    /Actually 6' 2" 210.

    Yeah, right! Maybe standing on a chair with a large box of your fire science books in your hands.

    /Oh that's right taken right from your newspaper, web page, USFA, and commission minutes. Please be specific, if you can on what isn't correct!

    You mean to tell me that you DON’T KNOW EVERYTHING? Do the research yourself.

    /Take the number of structure fire's in the city divide by the number of stations and shifts and we certainly are busier than you! Do you need the numbers???

    Gee!, I don’t remember Mayberry being on the Firehouse run survey.

    /Gee, Gill Moreno, Chief Phipps, Ray Landy SR and JR, Frank Blackburn, Gearld Gray, etc. Used to work with all of them, you didn't know I was a bay area chief.

    You compare yourself to these guys? They have more time on the poles than you have being a firefighter.

    /Anything else you don't know about Staylow???? Worked side by side with you guys on wildland fires and in Oakland. So I know a bit about you.

    I will agree with this. You only know a bit.

    /Gee, you just hired one of our volunteers.

    I can’t believe he would leave Mayberry with all the runs you say you have. How could he leave such a place with a perfect firefighter such as you?

    /Obviously, if your acting chief was so good he wouldn't have finished third in the commission's eyes or the Mayor's, now would he???????

    So now you support Willy Brown and those he appointed to the commission? Gee, I’m sure it was a fair and impartial process. DUH!!!!!!

    /I know you guys are just victims, it is not yor fault, all the books written about you by your own members of the department and all that goes on is just make believe. NOT!

    And you read the books? You are hopeless.

    /I know all about your driving skills too so does the public, Mayor and Commission:

    I’m glad to see you took time away from your scanner to check up on our driving record.
    I’m sure every fireman on this website will say; Look, LHS was right about their driving record. I guess all of his opinions are right then.
    You have to get calls to get into wrecks in the first place. Gee, why doesn’t Mayberry get into any accidents?

  4. #24
    truck12tillerman
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    LHS* if you worked for any departments in the bay area it must have been somewhere pitiful like piedmont or another pennisula department. Because you would have been knocked on your rear end if you would have been on with either SFFD or Oakland the "big boy" departments. OR maybe that is what happened, and thats why you retreated to 99.9% spinklered Lav Vegas where the most fire you'll see is a mobile home or a car fire!! Plus, according to your own supplied link, you are a volunteer whose department runs less that 400 calls a year, so explain that and your "we're busier" comment. You have NO idea what the politics are like in the big city, let alone san francisco. Paul Tabacco was the acting chief for 7 months and in that time was able to work with the firemen, and become more respected by them than any chief in recent history!!! The REAL reason he want picked, was because of a few reasons, one, as staylow said, the new chief has to do the dirty work; two chief tabacco is WHITE, three, the king, i mean mayor has to have a person that will do his every bidding and who he can give the kickback money to when he closes our firehouses. Until you have been there, or have something constuctive to say, keep your darn nose out of the discussion. This is our JOB we're talking about, not a abstact "idea" that you think you might know something about. Get a life. Paul, if you are reading this, hang in there, don't let slick willie drive you out. You can still do good for us line guys as Assistant Chief.
    FTM-PTB, and Nate and LHS*, you are both definatly mutts.

  5. #25
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    “Little rural department”

    “little huh? Last time I checked, Our response area was 107 times larger than yours, LOL. Dang, we even have a better ISO rating. We don’t use wood ladders or non-standard couplings sizes. We don’t use bronze spanners and certainly not bronze couplings on firehouse, LOL like you do. We don’t use 3 inch hose for handlines with little bitty nozzles on them. We don’t have an engine every single square mile of our city like you do (gee I wonder why they are going to close stations?), you only have 2/3rd’s more ambulances than we do (golly think that is why they are expanding your EMS? Your ratio of population to ambulances is 1 to 83,000 our “small rural” town has a 1 to 5600 ratio…Gee, 14 times better! With 70% of your calls EMS and only 18 of 96 units assigned to that mission…Gee you sure make it easy for the next guy to be a hero. NO WONDER THEY ARE BRINGING IN AN OUTSIDE CHIEF, lol ). We don’t wear non-NFPA compliant wool dress pants to fight fire in either. Our firefighters don’t talk about other peoples “peckers” on line, must be a habit huh?

    “,The Chief of Department directs, plans and organizes the activities and the operations of the Department..” Sounds like a management position but NO you want a firefighter. I guess city hall doesn’t see it that way or your Fire Commission. Next time you storm a Commission meeting you might want to ask what ramifications it will have on the next chief, LOL. Looks like you won the battle but lost the WAR!

    “Continuously monitor and evaluate the efficiency and effectiveness of the Department's organizational structure and service levels.”

    Maybe a bit more EMS?

    //"fire buffs"

    Sounds to me you’re running a club, I guess the Commission and Mayor agree…”Stealth Retirement” and now and outside chief.

    Hmmm, last time I checked we still promote within, at least you can say when you retire and tomorrow around the kitchen table that you were the generation that after 135 years of in house only chiefs wasn’t good enough to promote! Nice legacy!

    Nice job staylow, you couldn’t support a single claim you made, typical for


    Truck12tillerman


    // if you worked for any departments in the bay area it must have been somewhere pitiful like piedmont or another pennisula department.

    “I was not insulting you or your department, and I apologize for the inference. “ Didn’t take you long to attack another department did it?
    Talk about short man’s complex every department but yours sucks eh? Yeah, you’re a real pro. No didn’t work for them.

    // Because you would have been knocked on your rear end.

    Why don’t you and staylow stop all the gay talk about rear ends and peckers most of the people on this forum aren’t into the Sodom and Gomorrah stuff you guys like.

    //the "big boy" departments.

    Every other department in the bay area puts their fires out and comes to the big boys aid when you can’t handle your own fires like Wednesday night, dang only burned 15 houses down in one fire.

    //Peninsula departments

    Gee, every department without exception ins bad, you’re the only real firefighter. You are on this board whining and you want your fellow firefighters to support you after comments like that? Well you know what your fire comission said about the firefighters of SF don’t you? Here is what he said, “firefighting required minimal intelligence and “was not rocket science“ Comments like the two of you have made supports what he said to a T.

    /”big Boys”

    Even the big boys invited 35 other departments before they called you to drive the 8 minutes to Oakland. Just like Wednesday night. What does Oakland know you aren’t telling us???? In just 40 minutes you were there a whopping 1 hour 20 minutes after MA was called.. Very fast!

    “ICS procedures suffered somewhat because the Department doesn't sufficiently practice for large-scale disasters,” Gee I wonder who’s job it is to practice? The fire departments?

    //Volunteers

    What is your problem with volunteers? They baled your FD out numerous times here is one: “Use of volunteers: Citizen-volunteers were instrumental in laying more than one-half mile of five-inch hose from the 100 block of Alvarado Rd. to the firefront. In some cases, a line of citizen- volunteers passed 100-foot bundles of five-inch hose hand-to-hand along Eucalyptus Path and they also wrestled three- and five-inch leads up steep hills to the firefront. Still others courageously fought the conflagration alongside firefighters. Their efforts in suppression were invaluable“

    Here is another: “The deployment of citizen-volunteers in this conflagration reaffirmed a lesson learned by the Department in the Marina District Fire. Organized groups of citizen-volunteers, when operating under the direction of experienced company officers, can make a significant contribution to fire suppression efforts under extreme conditions such as earthquakes and conflagrations. “ Oh they were written by the FD.

    // OR maybe that is what happened, and thats why you retreated to 99.9% spinklered Lav Vegas where the most fire you'll see is a mobile home or a car fire!!

    Oh I forgot, real pros don’t sprinkle because it takes away from destroying property. I guess that explains the 17 times higher civilian injury rate when you cross the state line with all those paid departments, huh? You don’t need to blame the new guy you did those numbers in house. Let’s watch those and see what happens.

    //Plus, according to your own supplied link, you are a volunteer whose department runs less that 400 calls a year, so explain that and your "we're busier" comment.

    So your shift runs 400 fire calls a year at just your station? If you do, then your FD runs 58,000structure fires a year? Gee, you’re busier than New York and Philly and Houston, yeah I’m so sure! Oh that means you are running 411,000 EMS calls a year too? Golly you are busy. Each ambulance on has 62 calls a day, one every 23 minutes, wow, treat load drop off and off again. Sorry, sport…you are slower per station and certainly per shift.

    SO don’t talk about all the calls you don’t make, talk about what you shift does, your station only…stop the WE stuff because you are’t making all the calls and you aren’t that busy.

    //You have NO idea what the politics are like in the big city, let alone san francisco.

    Yeah right, I’ve sat in Emmit Condon’s office many a day as well as Phipps. Of course You are a little fir department. I’ve worked with much larger departments who didn’t need the little man mentality you have. Who didn’t have to put down all their neighboring departments. Yeah it is the Mayor’s fault, it took the union what 10 minutes to launch a Commissioner? Where is your power???

    //Paul Tabacco was the acting chief for 7 months and in that time was able to work with the firemen, and become more respected by them than any chief in recent history!!!

    I guess that really says a lot about your past chiefs and the sorry situation you’ve gotten yourself in. I bet the chiefs are saying the same things about the firefighters and Union right now.

    //The REAL reason he want picked, was because of a few reasons, one, as staylow said, the new chief has to do the dirty work

    Because you guys won’t manage your own house properly isn’t one of them????

    /// who he can give the kickback money to when he closes our firehouses.

    //two chief tabacco is WHITE,


    Oh now he plays the racist card, this is the FD who was under federal court order for running a boys club, placing swastikas in others lockers etc??? How many of the last dozen chiefs were non-white? How many were white. You’ve played every internal card in the deck and couldn’t get the job done or the ship righted. Oh well, someone else will.

    What is wrong with that? Your union supported Gore you should be used to that nationally for the last 8 years.

    //Until you have been there,

    Sorry been there.

    //or have something constuctive to say,

    I do, you obviously don’t have the talent to do the job yourself so they looked outside. LOL, LOL, LOL

    //keep your darn nose out of the discussion.

    No, you guys are to funny to let go.

    // This is our JOB we're talking about, not a abstact "idea" that you think you might know something about.

    Come on Tiller there are 38,000 other fire departments you can name by name and slam and tell us how they aren’t real firefighters, gosh you’ve got another 96 in the Bay Area to attack too!

    Funny thing you guys are all crying the blues but your Union President is singging another story. Maybe you can kill this out of town’er off and get back to the chief a year mode you’ve practiced so successfully.

    //The best?

    Here are your recent press clippings:

    “where money was taken from safety gear allocations to cover spiraling overtime costs. “

    “The administration of Chief Tobacco has wrongfully inherited the budgetary mistakes of the previous leadership, leaving him with few options. “

    “it was not uncommon to arrive at a full box to see the uniforms and personal protection equipment of fellow firefighters threadbare. It became abundantly clear by the inane budget of the former administration, that the safety of the rank & file was not a priority. “


    “In 2001, the SFFD has been given the opportunity to rebuild the budget from the bottom up…from every “probies” salary on up to the paper clips on the Chief’s desk. With a full and fair review, the department can very easily analyze its current, and future, spending needs. ‘

    “There are no excuses this year; the SFFD can lay down a solid financial foundation for years to come if, and only if, the budget is done correctly.”

    “• TRAINING – To aid us in returning to a sorely lacking level of proficiency in suppression, “

    “We are an institution seeped in tradition and fundamentals. “

    “Honesty from management. What an unusual approach.”


    Those are the Union Directors words this year.

    So what happened just 5 months into the new year?? SO I guess it didn’t work? A guy from out of town can fix it. How can anyone read these words and not see the place as borken?



  6. #26
    Staylow
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    WHEN IS THE NEXT ENTRANCE EXAM FOR MAYBERRY, USA? IT SOUNDS LIKE A EUTOPIA. WITH YOU THERE HOW COULD IT BE ANYTHING ELSE? IN FACT, HOW COME YOU DIDN'T BECOME OUR CHIEF? YOU ARE MOST CERTAINLY OVER QUALIFIED. I CAN SEE YOU STANDING NEXT TO THE MAYOR WITH YOUR CAPE FLOATING IN THE WIND, AND THE LARGE "S" PROUDLY DISPLAYED ON YOUR CHEST.

    I'M SORRY WE PULLED YOU AWAY FROM YOUR SCANNER IN ORDER TO CRUNCH ALL OF THE WONDERFUL NUMBERS YOU PRODUCE. PLEASE WRITE BOOKS FOR THE REST OF US TO STUDY AND ADMIRE YOUR SUPERMAN ABBILITIES.

    QUITE DRINKING ALL OF YOUR OWN BATH WATER. SAVE SOME FOR THE REST OF US SO WE CAN BE AS GOOD AS YOU. IT IS AN HONOR TO TALK TO THE GUY WHO TAUGHT PHIPPS AND CONDON ALL THEY KNEW.

  7. #27
    truck12tillerman
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry




    “where money was taken from safety gear allocations to cover spiraling overtime costs. “

    “The administration of Chief Tobacco has wrongfully inherited the budgetary mistakes of the previous leadership, leaving him with few options. “

    “it was not uncommon to arrive at a full box to see the uniforms and personal protection equipment of fellow firefighters threadbare. It became abundantly clear by the inane budget of the former administration, that the safety of the rank & file was not a priority. “


    “In 2001, the SFFD has been given the opportunity to rebuild the budget from the bottom up…from every “probies” salary on up to the paper clips on the Chief’s desk. With a full and fair review, the department can very easily analyze its current, and future, spending needs. ‘

    “There are no excuses this year; the SFFD can lay down a solid financial foundation for years to come if, and only if, the budget is done correctly.”

    “• TRAINING – To aid us in returning to a sorely lacking level of proficiency in suppression, “

    “We are an institution seeped in tradition and fundamentals. “

    “Honesty from management. What an unusual approach.”

    [/B][/QUOTE]

    What you dont understand LHS is that the union was PRAISING Chief Tabacco with the above comments. I am not going to sink to your level and continue this shouting match. This open forum is not the place for such a discussion. My closing comment : I hope that you are correct, and maybe this chief can help us, but god help the people of san francisco if he turns us into a LV or Fallon nevada.

  8. #28
    Double_Local
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Man is that guy an *******.

  9. #29
    mamaluke
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    What the f*ck? Who is this guy, LHS?? Again, another guy who is either insecure or jealous, or both. F*ck him, he doesn't get it and he never will.



  10. #30
    Double_Local
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Hey, did you guys know that the forums will automatically ****-out any foul language you use? Pretty neat.

    SFFD guys, I feel for you. I guess the "not for practical application" guys will have a field day with your department for a while. It sucks to have a bunch of salesmen and book-chiefs tell you how to run your department, when your department, and the area it protects, is nothing like theirs.

    I'm suprised though that you havent' figured out that a fleet of 2500gallon telesquirts is the solution to your accident problem.

    Remember what counts: FTM-PTB

  11. #31
    Firediver
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs up

    Tiller and Staylow,
    Don't dispair, the rest of us know how doinks like LHS can be. I work for a small dept. in LA.(IAFF L1442), and we have those on our dept.. They think they can do the job better than anyone else, but they are the ones that usually hold back at the burners. I used to spend most of my spare time in S.F. before moving to Cajun Country as my sister lives there and have nothing but respect for the way your dept. operates. Good luck


    The above represents my opinions only and not those of my dept.

    ------------------
    Craig Walker

    stay low....stay safe....BUT GET YOU SOME!!!!

  12. #32
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Tiller and Staylow, I see you both have a real problem staying on topic or speaking intelligently about any issuee. You'll be a real big help to the new chief.

    At least you can brag about how you were the members who screwed up 135 years of in house chiefs. Should make you real popular at the retirement functions of the future.

  13. #33
    oldE6man
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    To my brothers and sisters of the SFFD:

    You should be grateful that it took this long for an outside chief. We are on our second outsider since 1994. We do have PJs and will soon have black helmets for company officers, since our chief cannot distinguish between chiefs and company officers (guess the white coats didn't help!). Our civilian EMS staff now wears the same bugles to denote specific rank as do fire officers, although there has never been any sort of promotional examination in EMS.

    Hang in there. If he truly is in it for personal glory, he won't hang around long. Someone else will offer him a greater 'challenge.'

  14. #34
    ADSN/WFLD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    You guys have to understand Larry.

    Their isn't a department out there that he doesn't "work" for. He is an expert in every aspect of firefighting, (just ask him) and despite the fact that he doesn't currently belong to any department he still manages to go to every job within a 2,000 mile radius of Fallon NV. He also has more experience than all of us combined. Actually if you ask him he probably started the American fire service, Ben Franklin was given credit by Larry out of his generosity.

    Oh, I almost forgot if you ask him real nice he'll get you an ISO one and more money than was put aside for the fire act.

  15. #35
    NozzleHog
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    OK, I've heard enough. Can we just go to tribal council now and vote these two pompous s#!tbirds (LHS* and Nate Marshall) off the island? Real firemen don't give a fat, hairy rat's @ss what a couple of "chairborne commandos" think!
    ---------------------------------------------
    Outside fire chiefs are, generally, a slap in the face to any professional fire department. I don't blame the brothers in SF for being apprehensive. SFFD, like DC and Detroit will have to suck it up for a while and see which direction the new chief takes. Hopefully he will appreciate the proud history and tradition of aggressive firefighting in this fine department and not want to be the one who killed that.

    [This message has been edited by NozzleHog (edited 05-04-2001).]

  16. #36
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    //Outside fire chiefs are a slap in the face to any professional fire department.

    Yeah! 2001 the year SFFD couldn't handle their own mess.

  17. #37
    Nate Marshall
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Here is what Chief Trevino will accomplish in the next 2-3 years in SF.

    1. The entire fleet will be replaced by a standardized one where every engine, quint and rescue match their class.

    2.There will be a substantial payraise and benefits increase and a huge hiring binge.

    3. LOD- Injuries will plummet

    He has a unique way about pulling money out of thin air, and not by cutting although some fat in admin will be cut, operations staff and support staff will be added and made more efficient.

    I can certainly believe with certainty that you will see a bond issue of somewhere around 300-500 million dollars pass by a huge margin and the guys in SF will see this funding at the company level.

    He is a traditionalist meets progressive type Chief, he is also a very approachable Chief, if your a line firefighter and you ask him about something and why it is done that he will tell you straight, if you give him your opinion he will listen and take that into account. He builds coalitions and consensus and doesnt care about getting his name in the paper.

  18. #38
    hfdfao
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Hey LHS*

    Didn't your mother ever tell you,"If you don't have anything nice to say, then shut the **** up"........

    Express your opinion, fine.

    Rip the **** out of the Brothers.......
    No Way.

    We all aren't perfect, and I'll be the first to admit that. Lighten up and have some fun.

    FTB-PTB

    Dave

    ------------------
    In Memory of those who have passed before us, may their loss not be in vain........

    [This message has been edited by hfdfao (edited 05-04-2001).]

  19. #39
    M G
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Ever notice when you tell firemen they are wrong or that there is a better way to do something they often take offense and resort to name calling. Get over it you whiners and show some professionalism. I take a look at guys posting profanity and wonder if they realize how much it shows their ignorance and lack of intelligence. If you don't like peoples opinions....tuff "stuff". Suck it up. I can tell you the guy all of you are crying about and trying to shoo away spent some time at our firehouse recently to help us get set in the right direction getting a lower ISO grade and upgrading apparatus. Unless you know Larry I think its unfair to attack him. I think the difficult thing online is determining the way people are trying to express their feelings. You can articulate things better in operson than through typed text..something to remember. Name calling doesnt accomplish anything either.

    ------------------
    The information presented herein is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

  20. #40
    johnusn971
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by LHS*:
    Tiller and Staylow, I see you both have a real problem staying on topic or speaking intelligently about any issuee. You'll be a real big help to the new chief.

    At least they are not hypocrites.

    Doc DC3


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