1. #76
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    // How could you stoop so low so make the comments that you made.

    Sorry, if the facts bother you like yor comments about math I'm sorry.

    // There is no reason to down grade a department for their methods they do

    No sending in firefighters without a radio when their are 600 in the FD and saying gee we didn't know where they were and they couldn't call for help is not my idea of something that we should encourage. Selecting the wrong attack line size contrary to SOP and knocking off 5 guys in one year in two inciedents is another thing we shouldn't encourage. Was anythig learned from the first event other than to repeat it? When we get serious about safety and firefighter deaths, will start locking up officers for their actions not just dressing up and making lots of funerals and saying we are sorry. Of course that would asume this is a professional service. "Gosh I'm really sorry Willie is gone but we ain't changing a thing." That is the wway it really is.

    ///Yes many die in their organization, but look at the fires they see.

    Yeah, a few thousand interior jobs a year. So that is a cost of doing business eh? Couldn't be fitness levels, equipment related, poor practices, etc? Yeah it could. Go grab five other FD that total a few thousand workers, why are their death reates so much lower. Take LA City and County combined for example. I'll wait for my answer.

    //Can you say that you have ever seen a 10 alarmer?

    Sure, St Ambros Church. Can you ever say you saw a 100 alarm fire? I can.

    //Look at there run totals. 1.5 million last year,

    Come on, the forum isn't on runs butstructure fire use of nozzles. Now we re down to a dozen or so per company per shift. Almost every FD gets that number. You don't have bow to them because they have lots of stations combined equaling a bunch of runs. If you want to bow down try the volunteers in MD running a heck of a lot more fires per company.

    //When a brother firefighter is lost we should not attack their ways nor their department,

    Heck no only three guys dies last year testing hose unsafely. They chose not to follow the rules and dies. Honor at its finest. A 65 year old 345 lbs FF choked on a sweat roll and died on duty. It was heroic, all his budies watched him kill himself one fork at a time for years and never said a word. A guy fell off the tail board. He didn't know not to ride there, yeah right. A firefighter attacked structure fire alone and got dead. Is that SOP? 7 or 8 died racing to the fire station. They know they were cheating. Many of these deaths are the sole responsibility of the person who made a choice to cut a corner and got caught.

    //but if you want to attack a department and try to make them sound like they are nothing but careless, inexperienced, and down right stupid in their ways of fighting fire,

    Gee, you said all of that about FDNY, not me. I pointed out facts and silliness in their FD. Sure let emotion get in the way of discusing real issues that matter.

    Take your FD for example, do you now have a system in place so you will know when a fireighter is down? Can the firefighter holds his breath long enough for you to find him or her? If not why not? If it isn't a realistic procedure then it is a joke, you know what I'm talking abot, 20 minute MARC's etc. So if somthing happens AGAIN will have a wonderful funeral and continue not to change.

    My opinion's are shared by past members of FDNY. They admit they did stupid stuff some to the pont of being retired out on disability.

    [This message has been edited by LHS* (edited 05-28-2001).]

  2. #77
    NozzleHog
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    LHS*:
    Your comment about our fallen brothers was incredibly ignorant, even for a pr1ck like you. You obviously have some serious issues to deal with and should seriously consider getting professional help. Until that time, if you would ever again like to express your contempt for much better men than yourself, I suggest you stop the next real fireman you see, an FDNY member perhaps, and do so man to man...

  3. #78
    Truckie5553
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by LHS*:
    // How could you stoop so low so make the comments that you made.

    Sorry, if the facts bother you like yor comments about math I'm sorry.

    ***The math thing does not bother me at all. But this had turned from using a SB on an interior attack and the pros and cons of that, to lets see how much pressure and stream length it can go. It doesnt matter waht the math says, to each his own on nozzle selection.
    // There is no reason to down grade a department for their methods they do

    No sending in firefighters without a radio when their are 600 in the FD and saying gee we didn't know where they were and they couldn't call for help is not my idea of something that we should encourage. Selecting the wrong attack line size contrary to SOP and knocking off 5 guys in one year in two inciedents is another thing we shouldn't encourage. Was anythig learned from the first event other than to repeat it? When we get serious about safety and firefighter deaths, will start locking up officers for their actions not just dressing up and making lots of funerals and saying we are sorry. Of course that would asume this is a professional service. "Gosh I'm really sorry Willie is gone but we ain't changing a thing." That is the wway it really is.

    ***I disagree with things never going to change. Things will change if people let them. But dont judge everyone by 2 incidents and one department. I do agree with your comment about the radio. A crew should never enter an IDLH atmosphere without a portable.
    ///Yes many die in their organization, but look at the fires they see.

    Yeah, a few thousand interior jobs a year. So that is a cost of doing business eh? Couldn't be fitness levels, equipment related, poor practices, etc? Yeah it could. Go grab five other FD that total a few thousand workers, why are their death reates so much lower. Take LA City and County combined for example. I'll wait for my answer.

    ***I will do some research on this and get back to you. But i guarantee that career firefighters for the larger cities are for the most part in good physical shape. I will check on this matter and post later.
    //Can you say that you have ever seen a 10 alarmer?

    Sure, St Ambros Church. Can you ever say you saw a 1000 alarm fire? I can.

    ***How did you see a 1000 alarm fire? That i believe is a bit far fetched?

    //Look at there run totals. 1.5 million last year,

    Come on, the forum isn't on runs butstructure fire use of nozzles. Now we re down to a dozen or so per company per shift. Almost every FD gets that number. You don't have bow to them because they have lots of stations combined equaling a bunch of runs. If you want to bow down try the volunteers in MD running a heck of a lot more fires per company.

    ***Im not bowing down to anyone. Its just a fact that FDNY makes a heck of alot of fires. So do many other departments. Just a quick note, do you have something against FDNY, because you have done nothing but bash them.
    //When a brother firefighter is lost we should not attack their ways nor their department,

    Heck no only three guys dies last year testing hose unsafely. They chose not to follow the rules and dies. Honor at its finest. A 65 year old 345 lbs FF choked on a sweat roll and died on duty. It was heroic, all his budies watched him kill himself one fork at a time for years and never said a word. A guy fell off the tail board. He didn't know not to ride there, yeah right. A firefighter attacked structure fire alone and got dead. Is that SOP? 7 or 8 died racing to the fire station. They know they were cheating. Many of these deaths are the sole responsibility of the person who made a choice to cut a corner and got caught.

    ***You are misunderstanding what i am saying here. A firefighter is trained on the proper way of doing something. If they do that correctly then if somehting happens its not their nor the department fault. This is a dangerous business. Its the basics of it..People are going to die. But if the are hurt or die doing a job or duty unsafely, then yes they are at fault. As for the 345lb FF, did his department conduct physicals each year that was required to stay in duty. Stuff like that i will be inclinded to agree with, but dont take the FDNY and switch to memebers of volunteer departments and try to make them seem equal.

    //but if you want to attack a department and try to make them sound like they are nothing but careless, inexperienced, and down right stupid in their ways of fighting fire,

    Gee, you said all of that about FDNY, not me. I pointed out facts and silliness in their FD. Sure let emotion get in the way of discusing real issues that matter.

    ***So you are taking all of the bad moments you can think about with FDNY and using that to attack them. I have no emotion. They do not affect me in one bit. Yes i do look at alot of their methods to try in actual firefighting, but that doesnt mean i cant live with out them.

    Take your FD for example, do you now have a system in place so you will know when a fireighter is down? Can the firefighter holds his breath long enough for you to find him or her? If not why not? If it isn't a realistic procedure then it is a joke, you know what I'm talking abot, 20 minute MARC's etc. So if somthing happens AGAIN will have a wonderful funeral and continue not to change.

    ***With my department we have portables, PASS devices, and accountablity. All of these are used together to ensure the where abouts are known as well as who is with which company.

    My opinion's are shared by past members of FDNY. They admit they did stupid stuff some to the pont of being retired out on disability.


    ------------------
    Captain James Collier
    McMahan Fire Rescue
    KCTCS Area 6 Instructor

  4. #79
    E229Lt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Nozzlehog,

    I hope he does and I hope it's me.

  5. #80
    rescue2bob
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by LHS*:


    My opinion's are shared by past members of FDNY. They admit they did stupid stuff some to the pont of being retired out on disability. [/B]
    Larry how about e-mailing me the names of these past members, let me get in touch with them, let me show them in print what you have said about my and their dept. let me find out what it is they think of you, and your hate filled venom. right now you are attaching the fdny, in the past you have attached detroit,philly,pheonix(doesn't look right) (and this is in just the last few months)that i am aware of. who the ---- died and left you the all mighty smokey joe martin of fire fighting. YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED AS A LIAR on other boards, you have been challenged to back up some of your more bizzare statements, and you have been fired from a job all because you have some overblown veiw of yourself in the world of fire fighting. get some help and if you can't say something good just shut up.

    bob g fdny rescue 2 gp11

    to the others on this board i am sorry for intruding on your time but this a------ has gotten under my skin and i can't take his holier that god view of himself. he has caused more trouble on a number of other boards under a few different screen names and ruined quite a few good discussions on firefighting procedures and tactics.

    p.s. sorry about the spelling and grammer should have paid more attention during school i guess lol
    p.s.

  6. #81
    Grit
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Bob: Be cool. Larry would never make it on this side o' the Mississippi.

    Say hi to Joe J.




  7. #82
    ADSN/WFLD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    R2bob, don't worry Larry didn't change anyones opinion of the FDNY as the best in the nation. (next to Fallon NV lol )

  8. #83
    NY Smokey
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    LHS, Being someone who actually lost a relative to a LODD death in FDNY your comments disgust me. I cannot believe the total disregard you have for the tough job they do. They have one of the most culturally diverse populations to deal with. They also have to deal with a greater array of buildings than you will ever see. Do you really believe that most of their fires can be prevented by codes and sprinklers? Try putting some in at a crack den or high crime area. I'd like to see you try. Codes are only as good as the people that enforce them. The FD has just taken that over and the jury has not come in on how it is working yet. You also have to remember that New York City is a political pain in the a--. Politicians often stand in the way of "what the men want."

    Firefighting is about brotherhood. You may think I am wrong in what I say but you shouldn't attack me for saying it. You should disagree with the point that was made and I would be more than willing to listen to your opinion. You took a simple post about straight bores vs. combination nozzles and turned it into slanderous attack on numerous people. I have two things to say to you. I don't want you in my FAMILY and are you in any way related to Nate Marshall? You guys belong together!

  9. #84
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    //***How did you see a 1000 alarm fire? That i believe is a bit far fetched?

    4600 ffís in our state fighting a complex of fires. Only 35 air tankers though.

    //As for the 345lb FF, did his department conduct physicals each year that was required to stay in duty

    You really have to ask that question?

    //With my department we have portables, PASS devices, and accountablity

    And how often do you call around to see if everyone is OK?

    RESCUE 2 BOB!

    //right now you are attaching the fdny

    If posting the truth is an attack then so be it! Do you or donít you knock off more firefighters in one year than LA does in 15 years? Yes or no? Did LA have more fires in 15 years than you have in ONE year?? Iíll help you LA city lost ZERO guys. So explain the difference.

    NYSMOKEY asks,

    //Do you really believe that most of their fires can be prevented by codes and sprinklers?

    Well letís see. Mississippi doesnít have many sprinklers or follow model building codes and California does. Some outfit called the USFA says: California loses 6 people per million. Mississippi loses 36.

    Hawaii is fully sprinkled and follows the model codes and New York isnít: Hawaii 3.4 and New York 12. Utah lots of sprinklers great codes and Alaska almost none. Utah 5 Alaska 50!

    How about civilian injury rate per 1000 fires??? Nevada is as sprinkled as a state gets. Injury rate per 1000 fires is ZERO, NONE NADDA! New York 10.9, Alaska 25.

    Deaths per 1000 fires. Nevada 1.12, Vermont 8.16. See any difference?

    Dollar loss per fire? Varies as much as 10 to 1.

    Nah, they donít make any difference.

    //Codes are only as good as the people that enforce them.

    Would that be the fire department?

    So, are you saying it is impossible to go back and retrofit sprinkle all the buildings over 1 story in height in an entire state in say 3 years?

  10. #85
    Staylow
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Lets face it everyone. How can a guy who has fought a 1000 alarm wildland fire be wrong concerning any fire subject? I am too impressed for words. This just means that my previous notion that he was a book smart small time fire buff with an inferiority complex and insecurity towards large urban departments that he could never get hired on with was completely wrong. He undoubtedly has done it all. HE HAS FOUGHT A 1000 ALARM GRASS FIRE!

    How do I get into his department in order to learn some of his genius? You all from FDNY should waste no more time in your screwed up, pathetic LITTLE system. COME OUT WEST, and learn from the guy who has fought a 1000 ALARM fire in Nevada, and who has all the right answers.

  11. #86
    NY Smokey
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    LHS - For the record I am not a member of FDNY. I could be so lucky. Apparently you misunderstood my post. I totally support sprinklers and codes. However, I'd be interested to see how you would retrofit all of those buildings in NYC that are not up to standards. Correct me if I am wrong (I know you will anyway) but aren't a great deal of those buildings probably grandfathered in somehow? And if not, do you really think the money grubbing landlords will put in sprinklers out of the kindnest of their hearts? You obviously live in a fantasy world. I am sure you will say "Well that's the fire departments job to make sure they do!" Well, they just took over the entire building inspection responsibility less than 2 months ago I believe. You obviously have no idea how much red tape they are probably dealing with to get something done.

    I promised myself I wouldn't make this personal. I wouldn't do that to a fellow firefighter. Well, I don't consider you one. You are a bookworm. They say "Ignorance is bliss." Well you must be a real happy guy.

  12. #87
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    STAYLOW

    How many alarms would you say the Oakland fire storm was? 400 rigs divided by SF greater alarm response of 3 and 4 rigs alarmÖwhat 100 to 130?

    NYSMOKEY

    // Apparently you misunderstood my post.

    Oh, I misunderstood when you said?

    // Do you really believe that most of their fires can be prevented by codes and sprinklers? ?? //

    I didnít misunderstand a thing. You said it I responded.

    //I totally support sprinklers and codes.//

    Yeah itís been 24 hours and you changed your tune.

    ///but aren't a great deal of those buildings probably grandfathered in somehow?//

    What buildings? What are you talking about?

    //And if not, do you really think the money grubbing landlords will put in sprinklers out of the kindnest of their hearts?//

    Sure state law or city law and you tear down what doesnít get done.

    // You obviously live in a fantasy world.//

    Apparently, if that is what you call the most sprinkled state in the nation, I guess our state cares more about firefighters lives and the lives of our tourists and guests than yours.

    // "Well that's the fire departments job to make sure they do!"

    It is in this state and or the fire marshalís office.

    / Well, they just took over the entire building inspection responsibility less than 2 months ago

    Wow that is progressive.

    //I believe. You obviously have no idea how much red tape they are probably dealing with to get something done.??

    Oh I wasnít working at the State Fire Marshalís office when the legislation was passed, 21 years ago to sprinkle all public assemblies and all buildings over 1 story in height? Did we or didnít we tear down the non-compliants? Did we or didnít we sprinkle all those buildings without grand-fathering? IS it or isnít it almost impossible in this state to get any kind of variance on the fire code?

    Anything else you donít know about?

    Gee, I don't know how you would do it, but we did it in Nevada. We do have more hotel rooms than New York in just Clark County alone.

    [This message has been edited by LHS* (edited 05-26-2001).]

  13. #88
    E229Lt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    1000 alarm grass fire, what a dick.

    I have created a new site to cut down on the LHS* answers and save space on otherwise good threads: http://server.firehouse.com/forums/F...ML/003301.html


    [This message has been edited by E229lt (edited 05-26-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by E229lt (edited 05-26-2001).]

  14. #89
    Grit
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Ok LHS you dog turd, now you have made a statement that I can refute firsthand. Hawaii fully sprinklered? Not even close. Code compliant? Here's an example: They found that a standpipe system lacked the code-required isolation valves during a high rise fire. Answer? Require their installation? NO. Install standpipes so each riser has it's own inlet connection, WITHOUT the required interconnection piping, and WITHOUT the required riser isolation valves.

    You and Nate step over here. We'll eat you for a midnight snack. You don't even rate breakfast.




  15. #90
    Smokeetr4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    LHS-Got a little chip on your shoulder?Talking about NY like you do makes you sound like you need some counseling for your issues. Leave them off here please. That comment about knocking of Brothers was totally uncalled for!!! Shame on you.

  16. #91
    Paul Grimwood
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The suppressive effects water may have on Class 'A' fires are - (Grant & Drysdale FRDG 1/97)

    Fuel Cooling - Cooling of the combustible solid fuel surface, which reduces the rate of Pyrolysis and thus the supply rate of fuel to the flame zone. This reduces the rate of heat release by the fire; consequently the thermal feedback from the flame is also reduced and this augments the primary cooling effect of the suppression agent. The application of a water spray to the fuel bed is typical of this method;

    Flame Cooling - Cooling of the flame zone directly; this reduces the concentration of free radicals (in particular the chain-branching initiators of the combustion reaction). Some proportion of the heat of reaction is taken up by heating an inert substance (such as water) and therefore less thermal energy is available to continue the chemical break-up of compounds in the vicinity of the reaction zone. One function of the new water mist technology is to act in this manner, the fine droplets providing a very large surface area per unit mass of spray in order to increase the rate of heat transfer;

    Flame Inerting - Inerting the air feeding the flame by reducing the oxygen partial pressure by the addition of an inert gas (eg N2, CO2, H2O vapour). This is equivalent to the removal of the oxidiser supply to the flame by the production of water vapour. This is the dominant mechanism by which water mists can suppress large confined fires.

    In a discussion of water-mist fire extinction mechanisms Mawhinney added to the above the possibilities of thermal radiation attenuation, dilution of the flammable vapour/air mixture and chemical inhibition

    The use of water-fog, or fine sprays, as opposed to the solid straight stream attack in structural fire situations is nothing new. In fact, there has been an ongoing debate for the past fifty years as to which is the best form of attack. Even quite recently, there have been research projects that lasted several years to measure the effectiveness of water-fog patterns in cooling fire gases and extinguishing fires under various ventilation parameters, in comparison to the benefits and extinguishing capabilities of straight streams. In real terms, either form of attack has advantages over the other, depending on varying conditions.

    The term 'three-dimensional water-fog' is not to be confused with that of 'indirect water-fog' and the associated applications of either style are completely different. Quite simply, the 'indirect' approach is where water is applied in a fine spray form onto the heated surfaces of a fire involved compartment, or room, to create steam. This massive expansion of steam creates a positive pressure within the room and smothers the fire to extinction within seconds. However, the steam will create a sudden rise in compartmental temperature and cause a major problem for firefighters occupying the compartment. The 'three-dimensional' approach, when used as a firefighting tool, places the water-fog directly into the heated fire gases and avoids excessive contact with hot surfaces. This, in effect, causes a negative pressure within the fire compartment and firefighters are not burned by steam expansion. This effect is achieved by resorting to specific 'pulsing' techniques at the nozzle and by selecting ideal fog 'cone' angles and pattern diameters. The application is precise and requires both equipment and nozzles that are able to function with optimum effect and firefighters that fully understand and are trained in the application techniques.

    ------------------
    www.firetactics.com

  17. #92
    Engine69
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    Originally posted by LHS*:
    //***How did you see a 1000 alarm fire? That i believe is a bit far fetched?

    4600 ffís in our state fighting a complex of fires. Only 35 air tankers though.
    I asked in a different thread... but the "Invisible Web Team" in their usual infinite wisdom closed the thread... so I will apologize for going off the topic and ask the same question here.

    If 4600 firefighters were involved, I want to hear from some of the others who were there. Surely with that many responding, more than just ONE is a member of this forum. I am sure LHS will want to reply to this, but I want to hear from others who were there. This could be something to learn from (which is why I started the other thread).

    Does a "complex of fires" mean there were several unrelated fires... or was it really just one big fire? Since LHS refers to air tankers, we must assume this was a wildland fire. How many structures were involved?

    As I stated in the other thread, for our MABUS system here, it would require every department in 9+ counties to fill 1000 alarms.



  18. #93
    Nick SBFD 6
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    1000 alarm fire eh? Speaks volumes about your manpower levels don't it?
    Have you ever been to New York, no not the pretty down town, but the actual city. with 200+ year old streets and older buildings? This is the blueprint of most northeastern cities which are much older than any building in Nevada.
    You crunch a lot of numbers but still don't support your answers with any facts.
    If someone says, "yeah it works for us" how can you possibly say no it doesn't?
    And anybody who would use a LODD as an argument shouldn't be in the fire service, you are probably lucky that you are on the other side of the Mississippi, because between all of the east coasters you've ****ed off in this forum you wouldn't stand a chance.

    -Nick

  19. #94
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    If you use a smooth bore for interior attack you are by far the minority of the fire service.

  20. #95
    cpr4u
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    1,000 alarms? Bullsh*t! We like to get our fires stopped before they get that big. Yes LHS*, please tell us where this 1,000 alarm fire was...I have spent quite a bit of time in Nevada on fires, but don't remember being on a 1,000 alarm call. I have a hard time beliving you. And a complex is a series of fires in an area. They can be up to 100 miles apart. If there is enough fire, they bring in a team and make it a Complex. And you don't count wildland fires in alarms like that. Where the hell did you come up with that fuddy-duddy idea? And there is sh*t in buildings that have been sitting there longer in NYC then some buildings even being there in NV. Please, go find someone who will listen to your ramblings and bullsh*t and quit wasting time here.

    Thank you

  21. #96
    FireLt1951
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Even I'm getting to the point where I believe that Nate and LHS must be ignored completely.

    Here are 2 people who come from a state where (except for casinos) there was nothing but desert 35 years ago.

    They don't seem to have the intelligence to understand that most eastern and some cities west of the Mississippi are a hell of a lot older and much poorer.

    With all that gambling money Nevada has no wonder they can do what they want. Most of our urban and poorer cities can't. A lot of this comes down to MONEY and these 2 just don't get it!

    Anyway, besides for saying that these 2 are the most irritable individuals I've ever had the displeasure to deal with on these forums, lets just stop answering them, shut them out and lets hope they never come to the cities they have disparaged. I don't think they would have the guts to go there and talk the same trash to the firefighters there.

    Sorry for getting off this topic but LHS was way way out of line on the FF death remarks.



    [This message has been edited by FireLt1951 (edited 05-28-2001).]

  22. #97
    LHS*
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Gee the topic is nozzles, but lots of folks ask questions but never answer what is answered of them. Here Are a few answers.

    //If 4600 firefighters were involved, I want to hear from some of the others who were there.

    Contact the US forest service, BLM, etc. They will tell you all about the complex.

    // it would require every department in 9+ counties to fill 1000 alarms.

    Well good thing out here weíve figured out how to go to 20,000 plus firefighters and mosve apparatus 600 plus miles or more, isnít it?

    // And a complex is a series of fires in an area. They can be up to 100 miles apart.

    So?

    // If there is enough fire, they bring in a team and make it a Complex.

    Yep, makes lots of sense, and feed everyone, and give them a place to eat, bring fuel, tools, etc. Canít be to big a deal feeding 4,600 to 14,000 firefighters 3 times a day can it?

    // And you don't count wildland fires in alarms like that.

    Never? Are you sure? Yeah a request for 125 strike teams, 75 dozers and 80 helicopters couldnít be an alarm. You can certainly count it in equivalent terms canít you?

    When: Oh repeated again in 2000. Surely again in 2001 too.

    08-05-1999

    In just 4 hours 300,000 acres on the I - 80 (called the Great basin, basically a 6 county area) corridor and 1700 firefighters onscene.

    08-06-99

    at 600,000 acres

    8-7-99

    Just passed 1.1 million acres for the year, approximately 2000 square miles. With 3000 firefighters on the line 250 engines 80 choppers, 40 aircraft.

    08-08-99

    At 1.3 million acres with 4600 firefighters working on a huge government jobs program. Overhead was 470 guys on top of the 4600.


    08-31-99

    14,000 firefighters on the line.

    Source NIFC site

    Gee all the fires run out of one fire center, National Interagency Fire Center
    . How many alarms would 14,000 guys be? Guess why the fire fund is $100 million once and 300 million once maybe and the wildland guys got an extra $7.5 Billion every year?

    SO THE BIGGEST FIRE ANYONE EVER HEARD OF WAS 14 ALARMS HUH? So 4600 fire fighters and 250 engines divided by 14 equals, 321 guys and 17 engines per alarm, pretty big alarms eh? Twice the size of the Las Vegas fire department on every alarm. The average extra alarm in the US is between 2 and 6 major rigs and goes down as the alarms go up. That is what 6 to 24 at the most guys per call? 4600 divided by 6 to 24 per call is what equivalent to 191 to 766 alarms? Now add the aircraft, dozers, fuelers, lead planes, choppers etc to the alarm total. Of course they donít use alarms, they call around and ask for individual resources and strike teams when they can get them. Now do it for how many days? So 14,000 divided by 6 to 24 guys is what? Maybe you folks donít know everything about fire in the US.

    Ask CAPTAIN HICKMAN the wildland guru on FireHouse to tell you about it.

    Oakland:Stats:

    Deaths...25 one cop and one FF
    Injuries...150
    Single Family Dwellings Destroyed...2,843
    Single Family Dwellings Damaged...193
    Apartment Units Destroyed...433
    Total Living Units Damaged or Destroyed...3,469
    Total Acreage Burned by the Fire...1,520
    Fire Perimeter...5.25 Miles
    Estimated Dollar Fire Loss...$1,537,000,000
    Engines: 432
    Firefighters: 1190

    How many alarms is that? Not bad for 18 hours.

    Oh in the spirit of several members of this board, ďhow dare you bad mouth wildland fires and firefighters where 15% of the nationís firefighters die each year!Ē You defame fallen firefighters!

    // With all that gambling money Nevada has no wonder they can do what they want

    Yeah, it couldnít be because it was the right thing to do. Great excuse for your inaction. So you knock off a few guys with the excuse we couldnít afford it, if it works for youÖ.

  23. #98
    Fyresq50-1077
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    LHS-

    How does the mother of all grass fires apply to the use of nozzles for interior attack?

    I Just Gots Ta Know.....

    ------------------
    Take it easy, but be sure to take it!!
    Jim

  24. #99
    pfr172
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    LHS*,
    You make me sick!!! The way you talk about "knocking off" firefighters. You sound like a psyco arsonist when you talk about firefighters that way. As for your 1,000 alarm fire....bullsh*t. Don't you think a fire that big would make Firehouse.com news? Hell, a 2 alarm fire in Texas made front page, I think a 1,000 alarmer would make it. And I never heard about it.

  25. #100
    cpr4u
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    LHS*HOLE
    Would that "1,000" alarm fire have been in the area of Winnemucca? What role did you provide on that fire? You order resources, the NIFC or the SIT report record those stats as resources order, have, availible and so on. They don't say "The Fire God LHS has 15,000 alarms worth of firefighters standing by" They say "We have 13 Tpye-6 engines, 10 Type-1 Engines and 4 Hotshot crews, 10 20-person crews, 2 Dozers, and 2 Tankers" How oh how can I get to be as damn smart and perfect as you?

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