Thread: pull over?

  1. #1
    medtranz
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post pull over?

    Silly question.If you are enroute to a call,say an mva. You are in a rescue rig or a pumper equipped as both, lets say an ambulance ends up behind you enroute to the same call.How many of you would pull over and let ems proceed? How many would just keep going and not pull over?

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    When the goin gets hot I go to work !!

  2. #2
    Firelover
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    Well, that's a though one. I don't think that I would pull over because if extracation is required, what is EMS going to do other than wait. But I guess that it all depends on the call, and what's going on... I mean sometimes EMS will just over take on the right hand side, but advises the driver before doing so.....

    tuff call.....



    ------------------
    Joel

    If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

    **And of course these are only my opinion and only mine. Don't take it out on anyone else but me.**

  3. #3
    FFD#30
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Why confuse the public by pulling over??? Seriously, if you are enroute to the same call what is the difference? True ambulances are faster but you are supposed to be getting there in a safe manner. On a 4 lane road the faster truck can pass you if there is minimal traffic and the slower truck can get in the right hand lane safely with no cars in the way.

  4. #4
    BucksEng91
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Of course you wouldn't pull over. Both apparatus are going to handle the same emergency, both are going at "emergency speed", a safe rush in other words. If EMS gets there 30 seconds before the rescue or rescue pumper, do you seriously think that there will be a substantive difference in the quality of care the patient(s) will receive or their chances of living?

    This is, no offense intended to the original poster, a silly question, a non-issue.

    ------------------
    J. Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.

  5. #5
    NCFiremedic
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I guess I'm lucky. When at the paid (Fed Fire)job we don't have to worry about the ambulance passing us. More like the new (Change over every three months) crew in the ambulance even finding the scene.
    In the Volunteer Co I'm with, both trucks roll out of the same station. Our policy is to let EMS roll out first (It's a combo Dept and Ems crew ussaully stays at the station, Rescue folks come from home to man the truck).

    ------------------
    Running a code is easy.
    The hard part starts when you bringem back and have a 30-40 min transport

  6. #6
    Engine69
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Smile

    Our department (paid-by-the-call) rolls the squad out the door first. If the truck was on the road ahead of the squad, we would likely let the squad pass if there was no traffic to deal with. That way, the squad can arrive on the scene and pull ahead of the crash and allow the truck to stop short of the crash to protect the scene. If the truck got there first, the squad may have some difficulty in getting around it.

  7. #7
    CLWFWFD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    NO WAY!! As a matter of fact in our city more than likely they don't know the territory and are following us.

  8. #8
    ALSfirefighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Unless we are on a 2 lane roadway I would say no, and from both perspectives (as my other brothers/sisters have posted. Pulling over could create a serious safety issue with another vehicle having to go around into head on traffic. There is one statement I would have to disagree with in my opinion, and isn't meant to bash the poster, but any Fire/EMS, or just EMS personnel who just "wait" for the Tools to arrive need to be yanked. There are many things that can be accomplished before the truck/engine/rescue/squad gets there, unless there is an obvious hazard (power lines). And while its 1 in a 100 there are several conditions in which 10 seconds can make a difference. But again, it all comes down to risk vs. benefit. I've always taught, and was taught that the hardest part of any emergency, is getting there.

    ============================================
    The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

  9. #9
    DWSD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    if your responding in your personal car with a "courtsey light" should you pull over if fire apparatus, ambulance or cop pulls up behind you and also responding to the same call?

  10. #10
    hink8918
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I don't know if I would let EMS pass.
    there would be some questions I would ask first.

    1) Is it safe? never pass on the right.
    2) what type of call is it?
    >multipal vehical and injury?
    >has a chief given an onscene report?
    >again is it safe? > is EMS gonna get there any faster then the engine/rescue company?
    3) is there a policy for this? if yes what is it

  11. #11
    Ten8_Ten19
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Yes, I'd let them pass. They can normally travel faster than the BRT I'm driving and if at all possible I want medics on scene when I start extrication. Since we share a frequency I can invite them to pass when road and traffic conditions allow. Properly coordinated neither of us loses speed. I could get knocked back to 35 or 40 mph in some hilly areas of town, why would I want to keep in front of them?

  12. #12
    Nick SBFD 6
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    If all three agencies (police, fire, rescue) are going to the same call, than there is no reason to pull over for each other REGARDLESS of the situation. The time the ambulance would gain by the time you got the BRT stopped would be minimal at best. Same goes for police vehicles, they go a hell of a lot faster than us, but it isn't helping those on the other end if we have to stop to let the police car or ambulance go by.

    just my opinion,
    -Nick

  13. #13
    391HD
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I assume the units are running with lights and sirens in this scenario.

    If the larger apparatus are holding up other faster responding units, then why are lights and siren used?

    Many points have been made in the responses that it doesn't make any difference if EMS doesn't get there first. Obviously, there is no need to have these vehicles equipped with lights and sirens either.

    I think common sense, rather than egos, goes along way.

  14. #14
    ALSfirefighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    DWSD,

    Yes they should. This to me is a totally differenct scenario. Courtesy lights are just that. They have no right of way privlidges, so if they come up to an intersection they have to yield anyway.

    ============================================
    The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

  15. #15
    Colin S
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    No, just keep going as long as the other vehicle is keeping a safe didstance behind you. If the other unit is riding your butt and being a safety hazard then let hime pass, rather than causing a saftey problem. But if this happened if would be on the phone after the call about the other persons unsafe drving practices.

    As for PD we are taught to always yeild to them and in fact the only time I have encountered this is going to calls where I wanted PD to get there first.

    POVs should always yeild is my feeling.

  16. #16
    OFDLUIT33
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Shouldn't need to pull over The ambulance should not be going that fast to need to pass you.

  17. #17
    OLE
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    In our fire district the EMS would already be there....since we are volunteer. We are only called upon when needed...(fire, threat of fire, jaws, etc...) BUT, if in route and an ambulance comes up behind, I probably would just keep going and not pull over. It may create more of a hazzard and we are going to the same scene. ALTHOUGH, I would pull over if they did ask over the radio.. it could be a different emergency.

  18. #18
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    Both units are going to the same call...So why would it matter who goes in front...To answer the Question...NO I'm not pulling the Pumper Over to let EMS Pass...This is how an additional accident can occur when we start jockeying for position

    ------------------
    STRATFORD FIRE CO. # 1 NEW JERSEY STATE FIREMEN'S CONVENTION
    OVER-ALL CHAMPIONS 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, and 2000 !!

    ***The Opinions expressed here are strictly my own and do not reflect those of the Department to which I am a Member ! ***

  19. #19
    cfr3504
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    In my department, we run both fire and ems, we roll engine out 1st to MVA, so no I would not let them pass, but it should not be an issue, and if the driver of the ambulance attempts to pass the engine, they would be diciplined. On the same token, if we had an extrication, and the Rescue was behind the ambulance, I would not want the ambulance to pull over for the rescue, because the saved time would not be an issue.

  20. #20
    spo0k
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Here's a better question. You are responding in the engine going eastbound on such and such street to a run, and you see a medic coming at you going westbound on the same street to a different run (this happens almost daily at my dept) what do you do?



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    FF. Mike Burnes
    Whitehall Fire Division

  21. #21
    Lewiston2Capt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    If I remember correctly New York State Law says that one emergency vehicle cannot pass/overtake another emergency vehicle responding lights and sirens. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Now to answer the question. No, I would not let the ambulance pass.



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    Shawn M. Cecula
    Captain
    Lewiston Fire Co. No. 2

  22. #22
    N2DFire
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    In answer to medtranz original question -
    'round here it would depend on where we were headed. We are in a very mountainous area and there are times when the Ambulance & Rescue can get On Scene some 3 Minutes (or more) faster than the Larger Apparatus (In parts of our territory 20 to 30 Minutes from station to scene are NOT uncommon anyway).

    Just like Ten8_Ten19 - we are all on the same radio Freq. so it would be a coordinated effort between Units and only done when safe to do so.

    All this boils down to is the same old addage - what works for you might not work for me. "Big City" or even flat land territory - I'd probably reverse my stand and agree that there is no reason to pass because you can both make relativly the same speed / time.

    To answer DWSD's question -
    Yes, Yes, and Youbetcherassiwould

    my $.02

    Take Care - Stay Safe
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic

  23. #23
    Tillerman-6
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    S.E.R.A. Title III states that the first responding unit to an MVA scene is to have fire fighting capabilities (ie. water). Any ambulances have pumps in your district?

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    "Back off man... I'm a Scientist."

  24. #24
    ALSfirefighter
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Spook,

    We'd slow down and wave to each other going by. lol

    Tillerman, it says first responding not first arriving. That's one of those loop holes in the law. If it was first arriving, then almost all of us would be in violation one time or another. Especially those FD's who do not role on MVA's at all unless it is a extrication call, and even then some depts. around me the ESU start cutting. Also can you tell me where I can find a copy of the SERA III, I'd like to read that myself, thank you for posting that, I find it very interesting.

    ============================================TThe above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.

  25. #25
    Tillerman-6
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    OK ALS you got a point with the wording, I've always hated lawyers ... The copy of SERA I read was at the NY State Fire Academy library in Montour Falls NY. I guess the point I should have made with the water thing is... How much longer does it take to roll the stretcher to the ambulance past the engine if it is closer compared to how much longer it takes to stretch a line around an ambulance if it is closer to the wreck and a fire starts?

    ------------------
    "Back off man... I'm a Scientist."

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