Thread: A No No on the May Cover
05-30-2001, 07:10 AM #26Scene25Firehouse.com Guest
On air coming off the truck?
My safety comes first, as I have a family to feed just like most of you do.
So, the situation is:
You pull in on the Engine, mask on, breathing air, jump off the truck, grab the line and straight into the building?
Those days are gone for me. Yes, there was a time when I did that, and I have a pair of underwear to prove it. I have went through a floor, not completely, but too the point that I was wedged between the floor joists of a burned out floor, and the feeling of the room temperature rapidly changing in a exposure that I nor the 2 firefighters with me realized the fire had gotten too. Thanks to my fellow firefighters, I was not injured, was pulled out of the floor, and where did we go? Right back out of the building, sized the place up, while talking to command, and then went ahead with our duties. If I "We" would have taken the extra time to sizeup the fire building, I "we" would have known the exposure we were going in had the potential to be on fire. No-one, and I mean no-one knew this until that happend to me. The fire just didnt seem that bad to us. There was no smoke in the exposure, and no signs of fire, with the exception of a little heat, because it was attached to the fire building "Commercial 3 story business district" and when I realized that most of the livingroom (Lamps, TV, Thermostat) etc were melted, then I realized what could have been, but wasnt.
The fire was so intense in the main fire building, that it twisted the steel beams that supported the upper floors like a pretzel. The beams were 1" thick. The fire was estimated at burning near 2200+ degrees. We figured out that a back porch "Cement" that connected to the exposure we had entered had gotten so hot, that it burned out the floor on the inside, thus being the reason I dropped 2 1/2' in about 1 second. I never checked the floor, as I didnt feel a need to. I learned my lessons of tunnel vision, and everytime I jump of the Engine/Truck/Rescue, whatever I am on, I get as much information as possible and then go about my duties as a firefighter. A injured/trapped/missing firefighter will not do the scene any good.
And dont forget to have the RIT Team on the scene. : )
Awesome cover pic. Looks familiar I must say.
Before any comments are made, let me say that yes, being attached to the fire building is enough evidence to say, yea, the possibility is there for the exposure to be in danger. But, to be on this scene, hardly -0- and I mean -0- fire visible, I over looked this, and it could have cost me or any one else in the situation a life(s).
The fire was a complete loss, and was a Multi Million Dollar Loss. Allegheny County/ATF has not given a cause of the fire, as it has been ruled undetermined and/or suspicious. This fire was I believe summer of 94 give or take a year. hehe
05-30-2001, 10:20 AM #27jrfirefighter43Firehouse.com Guest
Yes i did see that on the April Cover but there is a forum for that topic. This topic is for the May cover!!
05-30-2001, 06:17 PM #28Althea ForhanFirehouse.com Guest
I looked at it last night and,well, does it look like his hood is on fire to anybody else? Might just be an illusion.
05-30-2001, 06:21 PM #29Althea ForhanFirehouse.com GuestOriginally posted by mongofire_99:
The salad bowls have to go!
Man, I love the guys (uh, not in that way) and gals that wear those things, but where in the world do they get them lids?
05-30-2001, 07:17 PM #30DSmitsFirehouse.com Guest
First of all, I agree that one pix does not tell it all but think of this. Why do f/fs consistently put on their gear right at the door or entrance to the building? I dont agree with putting the mask before stepping off but I do think this happens many times because we do not want someone else grabbing the line from us. Right? Shouldn't we learn something from divers? Step a couple of feet away from the door and check each others gear. Example: Air on? Check! Hood on? Check! Radio on the right frequency? Check! Lets go team. The days of running in without thinking are over. Rooms flashover quicker, ceilings collapse quicker, and explosions can occur easier.
05-30-2001, 08:45 PM #31Dalmatian90Firehouse.com Guest
Since the hood should be an Aramid of some sort (Nomex, PBI, etc)...
And Aramids don't flame...
It's probably just an illusion.
It is kinda neat to see Nomex disintergrate exposed to direct flame for a couple minutes though, but that's another story!
05-31-2001, 12:31 AM #32lvfiremanFirehouse.com Guest
I don't know why everyone is making a big deal about going on air before you leave the rig. I am not talking about 2-3 minutes prior to our arrival. I am saying 30 seconds out, with smoke showing, we put our mask on and are ready to pull lines and fight fire when we arrive. This doesn't mean we rush in to the structure with tunnel vision. We can still do a size up of the building with our masks on. Obviously the type of community you work in dictates your tactics. The majority of our fires are single family dwellings. We have lightweight construction in our homes, so every second counts in compromising the structural integrity of the building. We have 45 minute bottles. I can understand wanting every second in a 30 minute bottle because your only going to get 10-15 minutes of air if you working hard. I can easily get 25+ with my bottle. If you in longer than that, command need to reevaluate things. Before putting down departments on this post, consider that what works for your dept isn't necessarily what works for others.
[This message has been edited by lvfireman (edited 05-30-2001).]
05-31-2001, 01:56 AM #33ryanlori128Firehouse.com Guest
I would have to agree with lv. Not everything works for all departments. Having worked in both warm and cold enviroments which has alot to do with this. Masking up before arrival can cause tunnel vision so I am not a big fan of that. But if you do mask up just make sure everyone is seeing the whole picture. Train the same way. Cold enviroments can cause your mask to fog which can limit your vis on size up etc. this may be another reason not to mask up till after your arrival.
If the job gets done something must have been done right.
05-31-2001, 01:56 AM #34KBHFD11Firehouse.com Guest
Donning your facepeice before you get off the truck is a safety hazard don't ya think. Tunnel vision, limited visiblity, and hard to understand verbal stuff as far as sizeup goes. Come on, how long does it take someone to get there mask on?
Just a thought...
Kevin Louisville Ky
05-31-2001, 10:46 AM #35jrfirefighter43Firehouse.com Guest
I would have to agree wiht KBHFD. How long dose it take to put a mask on? Or even conneting to air? With the new air mask it should only take seconds. Even if you don't have a new mack. Yes the old mask do take a little bit more time conneting, but not a whole alot. With the newer mask you can see alot better. Tunnel Vision is not realy a facter. It dose not steam up like the older ones do.
[This message has been edited by jrfirefighter43 (edited 05-31-2001).]
05-31-2001, 11:37 AM #36jizumper-5Firehouse.com Guest
Strictly speaking on structure fires, how is the so called "tunnel vision" with a mask on any more dangerous outside of a structure than while you are inside? (I agree with fogging to a point, but that depends.)
I usually wait to dawn a mask right before entry. I can also remember once exiting the wagon with the mask on but not on air then hooking up upon entry of a trailer fire.
Coming from using Scott MMR's I can see pretty well with them on. I do see how some other masks may hinder vision a bit. But this seems to be a really insignificant discussion. I have never heard of any trouble with either side of the story.
On a lighter note how about all of those outstanding fire fighters. We all have see them. Out standing in the lawn (sucking air). Now that is something to complain about.
05-31-2001, 11:49 AM #37rrtFirehouse.com Guest
Looking at the picture and reading the caption, It looks like they where standing on the porch gearing up when the fire blew out. I'm sure this happened in a matter of seconds, and the guy on the nozzle was only thinking about flowing water to protect himself and his team members. If I was standing there with a hose in my hands and my helmet happened to fall off, I don"t think I would stop what I was doing just to pick it up.
06-02-2001, 08:59 AM #38kelley41Firehouse.com Guest
I have to agree with rrt. And besides, YOUR helmet has never fallen off, right jrfirefighter43? LOL
06-03-2001, 12:03 AM #39jrfirefighter43Firehouse.com Guest
[This message has been edited by jrfirefighter43 (edited 06-09-2001).]
06-03-2001, 04:36 AM #40FF.1205Firehouse.com Guest
Two thoughts ..I mask up at the door and as I mask up and I do a secondary size again looking over the structural integrety of the building and confirm my team is ready just prior to going in. Another is I don't fight any fires I wasn't at.
Fight like you Train and Train like you Fight.
06-03-2001, 07:12 PM #41ffnbsFirehouse.com Guest
Until we can 'tape delay' real life like thay do on television by 7-10 seconds this kind of stuff is going to happen everyday in our job. I can't tell you how many times we said "coulda, shoulda, woulda" while doing our incident critique. When you are dealing with 'unplanned events' such as a structure fire we hope and try to do everything safely but it's impossible to know everything before we enter.
06-07-2001, 06:05 PM #42PFDE4Firehouse.com Guest
Maybe donning the mask on the truck works in warm climates, but up here in the cold, you wouldnt see anything by time you got off the truck. If you have a room fire on the third floor of a 3 decker, I dont see the need to scott-up until you actually get near the fire and or smoke. It's awful watching someone with a fogged mask stumbling up 2 flights of stairs, stretching a line,unable to see what its hanging up on without even a wiff of smoke.
Now in regards to the picture on the cover, being firefighters, watched by other firefighters, all of us living in glass houses,watch where you throw your rocks
06-07-2001, 06:29 PM #43
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
Please refer to the editorial in this month's Firehouse Magazine related to this photo.
06-08-2001, 02:37 PM #44hctrouble25Firehouse.com Guest
The fire fighters at the door should have been packed up with nomex, helmet, and mask on before they ever got that close to the fire or building before the fire blew out the door and window. Our safety officer would have had us skinned if we pulled something like this. We pack up for all calls (except brush fires) the second we climb on the truck. That is our policy and it works!
06-08-2001, 06:19 PM #45hot DAMNFirehouse.com Guest
You are correct, it works for YOUR department!! Don't try to second guess an incident you were not at! I don't attempt to challange New Jersey's Blue Light Laws or Home response, because, apparently that works for you. Not to lecture, but try to keep that in mind when you are criticising other departments.
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