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  1. #1
    jrfirefighter43
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb A No No on the May Cover

    Just to see if any body saw the first man in on the house fire had no helment on his head!!!!! last time I checked you need one!!!!

  2. #2
    Ford45
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Exclamation

    no, he didn't. If you read the insert explaining the cover pic you would know why....

    ------------------
    Matt
    Newtown Fire Association
    Station 45

  3. #3
    jrfirefighter43
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by Ford45:
    no, he didn't. If you read the insert explaining the cover pic you would know why....

    yes but if you look at the picture and compare it with the caption. there is no helmet any where and the fire is already coming out the windows and doors.

  4. #4
    FFShooty
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    Here's what it said:

    On This Month's Cover:


    First-due firefighters from Cincinnati Engine 31 operate a handline into a well-involved vacant 2.5-story house. Firefighters were preparing to enter the structure and were donning hoods, facemasks and helmets when the fire suddenly blew out the front door and windows. One firefighter opened the hoseline to knock down the fire. A second alarm was requested upon arrival. Fifty firefighters extinguished the fire in about 45 minutes. The fire occurred on Nov. 12, 2000.


    Poop does occur from time to time.

    FTM-PTB-EGH

  5. #5
    firefighter26
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    As much as I like going in, it looks too far gone to pull any viable patient out.

    As for the helmet, it is a tough call. It could be the position of the firefighter's head as he is going in that makes it look like he isn't wearing one. I certainly hope he has it on.

  6. #6
    Dalmatian90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Looks to me like he's about to give up the nob.

    The bail is pushed forward (closed).
    No one is holding the hose behind him.

    Definitely not the actions you'd see if he was gonna be the "first one in."

    How long does it take you to don a mask, up a hood, and put on your helmet? 10 seconds if your slow? 7 seconds with a bit of practice? So we're looking at a shot that showed the tail end of 5 or 10 seconds of action when he instinctevly grabbed the nob and hit the fire while his teammates finished packing up.
    --------------
    As for not going in, I think a key is the "fire suddenly blew out." If indeed the fire just flashed over, the structure is probably still in good shape behind the drywall/plaster. If you can knock it down, great. If it doesn't start to retreat real quick, re-evaluate. At least you know two things -- it flashed over, and it just flashed over. That's probably a better feeling than pulling up on a fire thinking "When is she gonna flash?" or pulling up and thinking "Ok, how long has this thing been fully involved?"

  7. #7
    51Truck_K
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Unless you are one of the brothers on the porch, Don't criticize their actions, like someone said, Poop Happens. I have been at many a front door, donning helmet and mask, the same thing could happen, and may happen. He is lucky to have the "Nob with him! As for where is his helmet? You should have been taught in Probie School/E.F. that when you remove your helmet to don a mask, (or Hood)to put your lid between your knees. That way you always know ewhere it is and can find it in zero visibility! Like I said, unless you were there, give 'em a break!

    ------------------
    FTM - PTB

  8. #8
    cfr3504
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it can also deceive you with out an expliantion! I wasn't there, so I'm not even going to begin to say what was or was not going on. I'm only going to say that it made for a pretty cool looking picture!!

    [This message has been edited by cfr3504 (edited 05-28-2001).]

  9. #9
    mongofire_99
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it can also be deceive you with out a expliantion!

    Yep, and remember, a picture only captures a fraction of a second of the whole situation, not the whole situation.

  10. #10
    lvfireman
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    If your that close, you should already be on air. If we see smoke enroute and are going to be first in, we are on air by the time we are off the engine

  11. #11
    hot DAMN
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    What does having a patient inside have anything to do with making an aggressive attack?
    If you can do it, then WHY THE HELL NOT???
    Dont be scared of the red stuff, just put the blue stuff on it and it'll go away....

    Originally posted by firefighter26:
    As much as I like going in, it looks too far gone to pull any viable patient out.

    As for the helmet, it is a tough call. It could be the position of the firefighter's head as he is going in that makes it look like he isn't wearing one. I certainly hope he has it on.

  12. #12
    Dalmatian90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Dont be scared of the red stuff, just put the blue stuff on it and it'll go away....

    And once you run out of the cops, use some water!

  13. #13
    Grit
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    On air before you arrive? Was that a serious post? Hope you never need that last few seconds of air you sucked while in the engine. Is that common practive in Vegas? in NV?


  14. #14
    firefighter26
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Me again,

    I agree with the agressive attack, but why not turn that line on it for 30 seconds, then have the attack team go in?

    The caption said that the windows blew out as they where going in. As some said earlier, back away, re-evaluate. Knock it back from the front pourch and follow it in.

    Mongofire is right, a picture only captures a fracture of a second. I agree with also Dalmation, it looks like the bail is going forward and he is getting ready to back away. Maybe that is what they where doing. None of us were there, so we will can only play armchair firefighter.

    That's my play, what's yours?

  15. #15
    Mike DeVuono
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    No comment on the cover...except for it gets my vote for cover of the year. Kudos to the photographer..EXCELLENT SHOT!!

    I have to agree with Grit...why be on air before you get off the truck? (Does the LVFD use 60 min bottles?) I'll do it for a car fire or something that's not going to require a full bottle...but a dwelling??

    Nah...on air when the smoke gets too thick...whether it be the front porch, living room, or upstairs hallway. You never know when you'll need the air.

    Stay safe

    ------------------
    Mike DeVuono

    "There are few atheists inside a burning building."

    These are my opinions and not those of my department.

  16. #16
    PBFTRK33
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    I usually just read the posts on here and refrain from answering but I could't hold back on this one. Come on guys. I can't beleive some of the things I read on here that go on out there. Going on air while your still enroute??? As was mentioned, what if you really need that 2 or 3 minutes you sucked down after becoming lost/disoriented within that structure? The facepiece will also limit your visibility while pulling the line and getting to your entry point increasing your trip/fall hazard. As Dal90 mentioned, how long does it take to don your respiratory protection before entering? 10 seconds? We all need to remember the BIG picture on the fireground and not just the moment at hand....

    As for the cover pic, good job on the Engine work guys. Excellent pic and great aggressive firefighting in my opinion. I can't tell you how many times the fire has lit up on us during entry. It happens.......

    Jim Crawford
    Pittsburgh Bureau of Fire
    Truck Co. #33

    [This message has been edited by PBFTRK33 (edited 05-30-2001).]

  17. #17
    FD111
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I have always been taught to have everything on before you step off of the apparatus. That includes donning a face piece and having your hood and helmet on.
    PBFTRK33 metioned that having your face piece on can limit your visibility, this may be true, but what if you needed to make entry right away for a rescue? Now you have to take those extra seconds to don your equipment, when you could have already made entry, making your way to the victim.

    Just my 2 cents worth....

  18. #18
    Captain Gonzo
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Lightbulb

    As Mongo and others have stated previously...one cannot judge the operations at a fire by looking at just one photograph. What you are looking at is a fraction of a second of time, depending on the shutter speed on the camera, speed of the film, lens aperture, type of lens used, camera angle and a host of other factors.

    FD111: sometimes taking a few extra seconds to put on the facepiece before going in can make a differendce in the outcome of a fire attack. We tend to "tunnelvision" on getting in right away. Sometimes we have to take a second to look at the big picture...get orders from the IC and company officer and ensure our safety.

    ------------------
    Firefighters: Today's heroes protecting everyone's tomorrows!
    Captain Gonzo

  19. #19
    51Truck_K
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Yeah, that's right. An air mask does obscure some vision. That is a fact. and untill they make a mask that doesn't, we have to deal with it! Besides vision, how about the other senses you need to do your personal size-up upon arrival? How about the nose? You can't smell what is burning with a mask on, right? How important is it to get a few good snootfuls of the smoke? (Not full smoke, burn your lungs, die in the burn ward, snootfuls, but a good sniff of the air!)Tells you what is burning, doesn't it? I find it hard to believe the Vegas Brothers would be on air in the rig.(you sure he didnt mean mask on only, no air?) Anyway, back to the picture....does the guy in front look like he is about to light up or what? It appears he is smoking pretty good! Now there is an ad for a turnout gear company!!!!!Good Job to the Photog!!!

    ------------------
    FTM - PTB

  20. #20
    PBFTRK33
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    FD111
    As Captain Gonzo mentions, you have to take those extra seconds and take a look at the big picture before commiting yourself into the structure. A sizeup by ALL firefighters and officers is essential in maintaining individual and crew safety. You MUST look at as much of the burning structure as you can possibly see BEFORE commiting yourself into the building. You absolutely will not get a second chance if you become lost/disoriented in the structure. You will wish you did when your facepiece starts to collapse onto your face with your last breaths. Gentlemen, brothers, and sisters, believe me when I say that you do not ever want to experience a firefighter fatality fire. I've walked the walk. The 1995 Pittsburgh Bricelyn Street fire is a place I will never want to walk again. We all need to SLOW down and evaluate the entire situation. You can't do that with a fogged up mask on your face that already limits your visibility. If you are rushing off your rig and tunnel visioning straight into the structure you are on a collision course for a firefighter funeral. Remember guys, WE COME FIRST... TAKE AN EXTRA FEW SECONDS AND REALLY LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE GETTING YOURSELF INTO. Conserve your air supply as much as possible and connect up immediately prior to entering the IDLH atmosphere. Trust me guys, it will make for a much better day....

    Jim Crawford
    Pittsburgh Bureau of Fire
    Truck Co. #33

  21. #21
    Engine58
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Cool

    From what it looks like in the picture its just the way all the lighting from the fire is making it look like he just has a good on..its hard to tell but it pretty much looks like he has his helmet but that is just my opinion...its hard to tell do to them wearing turtle shell helmets..

    ------------------
    Andrew
    South Amboy, New Jersey
    Explorer Engine 6 So. Amboy Fire Dept & Cadet Morgan FAS
    "EMTS DON'T DIE THEY JUST STABILIZE"
    http://engine058.boltpages.com/southamboyfiredepartmentexplorerpost6/

  22. #22
    mongofire_99
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Just wondering, why didn't we shoot down the April cover?

    Seven guys on the roof with fire showing

    No roof ladder

    Three guys standing at the cut

    No hose line

    No hoods

    Two for sure not masked - one by the saw w/o eye protection

    Two without gloves - one is operating the saw

    Two saws making the same hole

    One without the waist of the SCBA buckled

    And those salad bowl helmets all around


  23. #23
    Staylow
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I can only agree with ONE point on your last post, Mongo, about the April cover. The salad bowls have to go!

    As far as the most recent issue, those who commented that it is only one frame that captures a fraction of a second were correct. It is very difficult to judge anything from such a narrow view. Take what you can from the pic, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt.

    Stay Safe!

  24. #24
    OFDLUIT33
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I can't tell if he has a helmet on or not. Let's change the argument we beat the helmet thing to death. I might have had to pull a 2&1/2 for that one.

  25. #25
    mongofire_99
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    The salad bowls have to go!

    Man, I love the guys (uh, not in that way) and gals that wear those things, but where in the world do they get them lids?

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