Well, since they shut the other one down before I could reply....
...but if I disagree I bring more honor and respect upon myself by proving him wrong than I do calling him a "sh*t head" or whatever.
As always, well said...
As for the facts to prove someone wrong, how do I begin to defend my fallen brothers...
You defend it with the facts of the cases. For example, did guys die in seperate incidents under essentially the same circumstances? If no, defend it with the facts. But if the answer is yes, you really need to find out why.
...who have been defamed by this poster?
What did he say that defamed these guys?
What was said needs to be taken in context with the entire discussion, not just certain segments of his (or anyone elses) post. I doubt any of us would like our posts sifted through and taken out of context like his gets. But if any of us are inclined to see how theirs would do, let me know, I'd be happy to help you out.
Anyway, to paraphrase, it seems to me he was simply asking "should we do something just because FDNY does it?" And, if that's the case "then we need to consider all the other things that FDNY does as well."
Are you ****ed because he said "knocked-off" instead of putting it in more kinder and gentler terms?
I agree that "knocked-off" may not be the best way to put it, but only because it seems I come from a different position on the issue than LHS*.
(First, let me say that I accept the fact that I may give my life for my compadries or a citizen from some unforseen circumstance, but how often are they really that unforseen? Not very often.)
In this particular instance, this whole arguement against LHS* is pure BS. We need to get over this touchy feely crap and start taking responsibility for our brothers and sisters getting killed. Read the reports. There is a common link between all of them (refering to traumatic LODDs, not medical):
Every single time one of us dies, something stupid was done to precipitate it.
Not one of us died as a result of an incident that was not preventable. Not a single one. In fact, many were a result of violations of recognized written and unwritten (but understood) standards and ways of doing things.
We'll go into an area that is barely tenable in turnouts and an SCBA, without the protection of a properly operating and adequate sized hose line, in an attempt to save a citizen in their 'jammies.
We'll bust into the second floor windows before a line ever gets in service, much less to the stairs.
We'll make entry with fire showing with the booster line.
We teach firefighters (some do anyway) not to worry about flashover, just don't put water on the fire until the search is done because it will steam any potential victims to death.
And (to steal LHS*'s example) we'll watch Bubba kill herself one fork at a time. And not say a damned thing except tell fat jokes.
I DO NOT accept that it is the cost of doing business to injure or kill a single firefighter.
I maintain that it is the cost of carelessness and stupidity.
He posted a lot of facts that have yet to be countered by anything other than emotion because he hurt someones feelings. We need to get over our emotional issues BS and get on with it.
He made the statement that there are more LODDs annually in FDNY than in LA for the last 15 years. If this is not true, you should have jumped all over it.
The fact is is that it is true and instead of us directing our anger at LHS* (and showing just how bright and clueless we are by calling names and taking the if I shout louder I'm right or the I wish he would say that to my face approach), we should be directing it at a departments administration and all others involved that allow it to continue. Right down to the line firefighters and including our beloved IAFF.
Just back up what you say with experience or shut the hell up because some FF might just be listening to you and what you have to say and make a bad mistake from something you said. Live with that one? A FF's life may depend on what is said here!!!
This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. If the thread hadn't been closed, I'm sure that you would have corrected your statement once you cooled down and realized what you said.
If any of us put our life on the line based on what an anonymous, nameless and faceless person posted here without research and training on it, we take the entire blame for the results. Nobody that posts here shares it with us.
I refer you back to what I said above about every single time one of us dies, something stupid was done to precipitate it.
To take anything posted here as gospel and put it to use without training or evaluation is STUPID. I don't care if I hurt anyones feelings by saying this.
While we're at it and outside of this issue, thank you for your service to our nation.
Whenever someone presents Larry with the facts and gives evidence to back up thier argument, his story/argument/delerium changes instantaneoulsy in order to make himself look correct and to berate the subject poster and make him/her look like a dweeb!!!!
An example please...
Just heard an interesting rumor....Seems that ole' Larry was asked to leave a certain publication recently because of his attitudes...thats why he went and started his own magazine.....hmmmmmm....Note: Only a rumor!!! But certainly a believable one!!!
Nice one. Why even bother to say this without the facts to back it up except to further antagonize? It can't be that hard to find out the truth if you cared too.
But it is so much easier and it sheds a more negative light on those involved when we just say "I heard..." doesn't it?
Glad to see you're still with us, I was wondering if you were knocked-off in the last thread shut down we were involved in.
Just to be fair, I think saying that LHS "defamed fallen firefighters" goes a bit too far. He said nothing questioning the honor, bravery, or professionalism of the FDNY brothers we've lost this year.
Come on Bucks we're not interested in fairness are we? We don't care that he NEVER questioned all that good stuff that most firefighters are made of.
Quit wasting time with all this name calling. But when you call names and you get slapped back, don't go off somewhere else with your tail between your legs crying "so and so called me this and I didn't do anything to deserve it" when the facts show different.
Don't use emotion to try to persuade your argument, FACTS is what it takes.
Those of us that maintain positions or switch them based on emotion or "because it has always been that way" are just little followers that will fall at the feet of anyone that we percieve to be smarter than we are - sheeple if you will.
And in doing so, we deserve the results of our actions.
It happens everyday in all walks of life.
Don't settle for the status-quo. Find out why things are the way they are.
Get the facts, logic and solid verifiable evidence to support your positions and beliefs. If they will not stand up to that, consider revising your positions for your own good.
If you disagree with what gets posted, post to the contrary. But be able to support your position. And force those you disagree with to support their position. If they don't, they look like the loser, not you.
[This message has been edited by mongofire_99 (edited 05-28-2001).]
[This message has been edited by mongofire_99 (edited 05-28-2001).]
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Thread: The LHS* thread - Part Deaux
05-28-2001, 10:57 PM #1mongofire_99Firehouse.com Guest
The LHS* thread - Part Deaux
05-29-2001, 12:42 PM #2E229LtFirehouse.com Guest
The above link says enough. I knew there couldn't be another Brother out there that could agree or support your views, so you created one.
That's sad Larry
05-29-2001, 01:24 PM #3pfr172Firehouse.com Guest
So mongofire 99 is really LHS*? I got suspicious when reading his post because it sounded so much like him. I agree e229lt, that is pretty sad.
05-29-2001, 01:27 PM #4E229LtFirehouse.com Guest
05-29-2001, 02:30 PM #5mongofire_99Firehouse.com Guest
I knew there couldn't be another Brother out there that could agree or support your views, so you created one.
What views can't anyone else support or agree with?
- That we do do stupid stuff that gets us killed?
- That we die in preventable incidents?
- That losing a firefighter is not cost of busniness?
- That taking a post here and putting it to use before training and research on it is stupid?
- That ArmyTruckCompany should be thanked for his years of service to the US, especially under the Clinton Administration?
- That fact is the better way to support an arguement than emotion?
- That we shouldn't settle for the status-quo?
You can't agree with or support any of that?
Why can't you support your veiws?
I hate to bust your bubble guys but I ain't him.
In fact I'm not too far from you pfr172.
05-29-2001, 02:36 PM #6BucksEng91Firehouse.com Guest
I don't buy it, guys. Even if I did believe that LHS* created mongo or vice versa (which I don't - I've corresponded with mongo and he would *NEVER* write something as blatantly stupid as LHS* did), a quick reading of their individual posts would disprove it, in my mind. The writing style is different, the spelling errors are different, even the method of quoting others is different. It's obvious that it's two different people.
Nope, sorry. I don't buy it. I'll say it again - instead of pointing fingers and saying "nyah nyah", whaddya say we instead prove LHS* wrong? Or failing that, at least acknowledge that the source of our resentment comes not so much from what the guy says, but from the condescending, "holier than thou" way he sometimes says it. There's a big difference there, and I think that's what mongo has been trying to say, in so many words.
And, as mongo wrote, what is it that he wrote that a brother firefighter couldn't agree with?
The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.
[This message has been edited by BucksEng91 (edited 05-29-2001).]
05-29-2001, 02:43 PM #7pfr172Firehouse.com Guest
Mongo, where are you from? I'm sorry about accusing you, the way you quoted people sounded much like LHS*. Also you dont talk about "knocking off" firefighters the way LHS* does. So anyways, where are you from?
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