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  1. #21
    LT334
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    While I agree with all of you that this person should be prosicuted to the fullest extent of the law, I think we are all missing something here. Wheather the fire was set or accidental, this brother still would have been responding, and therefore the outcome would have been the same. What we need to know is WHY did the tanker truck rollover. Was the driver going too fast? Was he using a seatbelt? Was there a mechanical failure? Dont get me wrong, I am not condoning what the arsonist did, I am not blaming the fallen brother for his own death. I am simply saying that something somewhere went wrong in order for him to die. We all owe it to him to do everything we can to not allow this to happen in our own departments. Sooner or latter we are all going to have to respond to a fire, wheather set or not. It is our responsibility to get there safely.


  2. #22
    George Wendt, CFI
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    You all know my thoughtson FF Arson. I told you that something like this would happen someday.

    Random thoughts...

    Army is right on! I have advocated mandatory FF psych testing for years. Patrick, you are dreaming. The background checks conducted by most Vol. FD's are meaningless. Most of the FF that I have arrested for this stuff are first-time offenders. What is the background supposed to show then? Psych. testing is the only way to go.

    You have to understand what bail is for. Bail is not punitive. The purpose of bail is to ensure that the defendant will show up for subsequent court proceedings. You can't put a huge bail on somebody because you are mad at them. There must be an articulable reason, such as; danger to the community, not appearing for past court appearances, threat to flee the jurisdiction, etc. I assume that these arguments were made and taken into consideration by the judge when he set the bail. Let's face reality, there are some people who couldn't make $5 bail, so maybe that is the situation here.

    As far as a defense attorney, every citizen is guaranteed the right to a fair trial. If you were charged with a crime, you would want to have an aggressive defense. Remember, whether you like it or not, at this stage he is presumed to be innocent. That is what this guy is constitutionally guaranteed. If there is a confession and it was legally obtained, this will probably be a slam dunk, no problem. But he is still entitled to a vigorous defense.

    I'll also guarantee you that the fact that this death occurred as a result of a motor vehicle accident will definitely be taken into consideration. This is not a death penalty case.

  3. #23
    postal79
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    this is definetely a sickening occasion, and this b@$tard doesnt deserve the sweet air the rest of us breathe, my thoughts and prayers to the family of our fallen brother.. we are all out there doing the same thing paid or vol., trying to help someone in need, trying to keep someone from dying and this fire starting life stealing @$$, lights a fire that a true f/f died responding to.. sorry about the language but this outrages me personally!!
    Everyone stay safe

  4. #24
    JOEL KIMBALL
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    I've been away for awile, back problems again, and this is the first thing I see when I log on. I agree that the right and just punishment for these criminals, especially when they cause the death of someone, is the ultimate allowable by the law. In these cases it should be the death penalty. But another point I would like to throw out for consideration is this. We have all been around individuals that caused us to silently go Hmmmmmm! I wonder if that last grass fire, or that last out of the way abandoned house fire had some help from him or her? I'm not saying we should live in a enviroment of suspicion, but firefighter arsonists probably have very similar attitudes or habits. I don't know for certain about this because as far as I know it has never happened in our department. But there has to be something that he did in the past that caused some to silently wonder. I may be wrong, but going around setting fires, so you can get off putting them out, has to manifest itself someway. You can't have distrust in the department, but maybe we're to gullable or rationlizing. I know I always keep a little reservation about new members until they prove their trustworthiness. Especially if our runs increase. Is there a list of psychological profiles for these disturbed people? If anyone knows lets hear it.


    Tell your family you love them,(you never know when it may be your last chance).

    What happened to spell check?

  5. #25
    Firekatz04
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    My feeling is to first, lock him in a room with about 2 dozen REAL firefighters for about 5 minutes... EVERY DAY. Then, make him wear a "billboard" sign that says, "I killed firefighter Travis Brown" everywhere he goes in his local area.

  6. #26
    APG1
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I think many of us are missing the big picture here. By no means do I defend this man, if indeed he did do as he charged with. Remember, under our courts of law, he's innocent until proven guilty (I haven't read the whole case yet, but I just know what they taught me in 2nd grade. ).

    Ask yourself: Will killing him bring back the lost firefighter or make his family feel better?

  7. #27
    JOEL KIMBALL
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Arrow

    You are right APG1, he has not been convicted or found guilty. My opinions are for anyone that intentionally sets a fire and someone dies because of it. With all due respect, the argument that putting someone to death does'nt bring back those killed etc... is not the issue. The issue has and always will be, what is Just. It may or may not deter the next would be arsonist, I think it would, but the Morally right thing to do, is to hold a person accountable for his or her actions. Yes, the thought of putting someone to death should be repulsive, but the problem is when people don't see it that way, which makes it all the easier to pull the trigger, strike the match.....

  8. #28
    RADFIRE
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I started a post thread in reference to volunteer psycologicals and got a mediocre response. Probably because it was already done before I got on here. Not that it would definitely prevented his becoming a member, but it may have.
    I'm with Bucks Engine on this one.
    Zap the bastard in a microwave.

  9. #29
    George Wendt, CFI
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    This is by no means a death penalty case. The fire was an arson. The arson was committed by a fire fighter. The death occurred as an indirect result of the arson. In NJ, he would be guilty of Felony Murder, which is a death that occurs during the commission of a crime. It is a first degree crime, but certainly not a capital crime.

  10. #30
    Lewiston2Capt
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Originally posted by George Wendt, CFI:
    This is by no means a death penalty case. The fire was an arson. The arson was committed by a fire fighter. The death occurred as an indirect result of the arson. In NJ, he would be guilty of Felony Murder, which is a death that occurs during the commission of a crime. It is a first degree crime, but certainly not a capital crime.

    DAMN!


    ------------------
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Captain
    Lewiston Fire Co. No. 2

  11. #31
    Firekatz04
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Um, I believe there may be some death penalty statutes that can be used (I don't know about MO, but, in PA there are).
    As far as him not being tried... no, he hasn't been, BUT, he HAS confessed to STARTING THE FIRE. (I know, he'll say he was coerced.)
    And I stand by my earlier statements!

  12. #32
    George Wendt, CFI
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Please cite the Death Pealty Statute in PA that would apply in this case.

  13. #33
    BonCreChief@Yahoo.com
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    Simply put punishment to the fullest extent of the law. I do not know what that will be but our anger or our opinions will not determine that. What we can do is make every attempt to prevent this in the future. If it takes psychological testing then we need it. If it takes watching probies then watch them. If we need better driving training or equipment then we need it.
    Sadly,it does not matter what we do for this will happen again. This may sound hard hearted but I promise you it is not. My feeling and prayers are for the family and the Department, I just know that this is a bigger problem than many people are willing to admit.

  14. #34
    toneloc177
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    disturbing to say the least.

    where can we read up on this tradgic situation? is there some local paper or website that has written articles on it?

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