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  1. #1
    Plug-Ugly
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down FF kills comrade!!!

    It appears that a firefighter (?) is responsible for setting the fire that resulted in the death of a fellow firefighter while responding. Many on these forums have expressed their desire to see the two homeless people from Worcester crucified for setting an accidental fire.
    What do you think this ********* should be charged with?

    [This message has been edited by Plug-Ugly (edited 06-04-2001).]

  2. #2
    Truckee516B
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    I am not a lawyer so I don't know what the severest charge could be but I would hope it would be severe enough to impose the death penalty. Anyone convicted of arson should face the death penalty if it causes a fatality, especially in the case of a firefighter fatality. And considering the scumbag charged with setting the fire was a firefighter that should make the charges that much MORE severe. This seems to be a sad story which keeps repeating itself and I for one am not sure how we as a group can stem this trend short of more stringent background and psychological testing of applicants both career and volunteer.
    Stay Safe and Be Careful Out There!
    Truckee516B

    ------------------
    The opinions express here are soley my own and are in no way shape or form the views of my employer.

  3. #3
    CFD14
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    This is so disgusting I don't even know what to post. I knew it would only be a matter of time before a fire set by a firefighter would take the life of a comrade. The sick feeling I get just thinking about this news, and what it will do to the families and especially the five children left without a father. The bail should have been set a lot higher so he doesn't have the chance of getting out for awhile.

  4. #4
    nsfdjr
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    These situations are just horrible. I feel sorry for the wife and 5 children left without their husband/father. I believe strongly this guy should get the worst penalty out there.

    ------------------
    -Be Safe
    (The above comments do not reflect those of my department or other members)

  5. #5
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    One man dedicated to being a Volunteer with a wife and children at home dies as a result of some *********{ who calls him-self a firefighter } setting a fire just so he can respond to extinguish it. This is a down right disgrace to the service. It would be against the law for me to say what I'd like to see happen to him -- He dosen't deserve to even breathe. Unfortunately I'm not versed in the law so I don't know what will be involved. But the biggest punishment of all is to the little children and the wife of the firefighter that was killed -- they no longer have a daddy or a husband --- what will the arsonist get ? 3 hots and a cot...probably exercise facilities and a work program. Will he live with guilt for what he's done ?...I doubt it but all the while he'll proclaim his innocence and that he was disturbed. This whole thing disgusts me to no end --- Not only did he commit arson but now a death results from his act and in my mind he is a murderer and should be fried .... not given the needle { that's too easy and painless } I say Cook his ***** -- --- My thoughts and Prayers are with the Family and Station that the deceased firefighter served

  6. #6
    Ford45
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    This is incredible. I am severly disheartened to hear of such a travesty. All we can do is pray for the family of our fallen brother and hope that this degenerate gets the most severe punishment that the law provides. To anyone that would concider starting a fire to fight it, please remember this, and think of the wife and the five kids that no longer have a father to look up to, but now a hero they will never forget. Peace and stay safe.

    ------------------
    Matt
    Newtown Fire Association
    Station 45

  7. #7
    NY Smokey
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    First, my thoughts and prayers go the family of the fallen brother and members of his department. It is hard enough to lose a family member or friend but this just makes it hurt so much more. Well, this guy was no fireman. He was a CRIMINAL in fireman's clothing. Plain and simple.

    I'm not sure what the background check process is in Missouri. Here in NY each new member must undergo a check for PRIOR arson related offenses. It only works if the person has been caught before.

    What do I think they should do with this guy? First, lock him up until his day in court. Deny him the freedoms that we enjoy daily. Next, charge him with manslaughter to say the least. He willingly put others in harm's way by setting the fire. The end result was a death of a firefigher in the performance of his duties. If they can make the argument for murder, then they should. Having posed as a firefighter (I can't call him one)he was fully aware of the inherent risks of responding in an emergency vehicle.

    As far as the penalty phase, give him the maximum penalty allowed by law. Hopefully they will be able to try him for a type of homicide or manslaughter. If he qualifies for a capital offense, I say give him the electric chair. A needle is too gentle. Unfortunately, he may get away with just prison time. We can only hope he will never be able to do this again whatever the court decides. Stay safe out there everyone.

  8. #8
    Grit
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    This is serious, not sarcastic:

    Let him have Brewster Fire Chief gear and let him knock on crack house doors for the cops.

    Then, if he lives, we can tie him to a pumper & drag him.

    Nice and slow for a while.

  9. #9
    BucksEng91
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Kill the scumbag motherf*cker.

    ------------------
    J. Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated.

  10. #10
    larry cook
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    let him go everyday and look every citizen and the family of the fallen firefighters in the eyes and tell them what he did and why he did it. Then put him back in his cell and show him the pictures of what his victims looked like before and after. and one other thing let him have no contact with his family or friends. he will slowly go insane. But, this will be impossible to do as this would be called cruel and unjust punishment. thanks for letting me have a say LC

  11. #11
    GreenCap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    As I sit here pondering this situation, trying to think of a well thought out response to this thread. As I weigh the facts as I know them, Consider the law from a layman's point of view, reflect upon the experiences I have had in my seventeen years in the fire service, and review my own personal feelings and emotions, I can't think of a better way to respond than "BucksEng91."

    Well said brother

  12. #12
    DSmits
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    We now have a permanent maintenance person for the flowers and grounds at the Fallen Firefighters Memorial in Emmitsburg but please dont let him be present for the annual ceremony. He may get the death penalty another way from those that do care. At the very least maybe we ought to start a letter writing campaign to him in jail. Lets get his address and send him some of our feelings starting with the feelings of the fallen firefighter's family.

  13. #13
    Brian Dunlap
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    I see today that he pleads guilty to setting the fire...goes into court and says he's innocent meaning he wants to get off for being a killer. $20,000 Bail ? What kind of BullSh** is that ? He'll be gone faster than any of us can blink....His actions resulted in the death of another human being and he is allowed to walk free after paying a percentage of the bail ?...Like I said yesterday I'm no law educated individual but I seriously don't think that is the right way to handle the situation. The Police have a confession what more do they need ? Some Hot-Shot Lawyer is going to defend this monster and swing some shifty deal with the prosecution to get him a lesser sentance. Did anyone ever wonder why the woman holding the scales of justice is crying ? ...Because she can't stand to see lawyers make deals...He's guilty...He admitted it and should pay for it with his own life. PLAIN, PURE, AND SIMPLE !!!!

  14. #14
    ArmyTruckCompany
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    F0R ALL THE SUPER-VOLLIES OUT THERE THAT DONT THINK VOLUNTEERS SHOULD HAVE TO UNDERGO PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING FOR ADMITTANCE TO A VOLUNTEER DEPARTMENT: (Or any Dept. for that matter!!!!)

    I submit, for your review, this topic. These posts. This mentally deranged gentleman. All these mentally deranged individuals who have set fires, only to then respond to the fire to put it out. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!! Someone should lobby our lawmakers and make psychological screening mandatory for all firefighters!!!

    ------------------
    "Loyalty above all else, except honor."

  15. #15
    ArmyTruckCompany
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    F0R ALL THE SUPER-VOLLIES OUT THERE THAT DONT THINK VOLUNTEERS SHOULD HAVE TO UNDERGO PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING FOR ADMITTANCE TO A VOLUNTEER DEPARTMENT: (Or any Dept. for that matter!!!!)

    I submit, for your review, this topic. These posts. This mentally deranged gentleman. All these mentally deranged individuals who have set fires, only to then respond to the fire to put it out. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!! Someone should lobby our lawmakers and make psychological screening mandatory for all firefighters!!!

    Oh, and by the way......I like the suggestion toissues him Brewster FF's gear and let him knock on some drug house doors!! Then we can use what happens to him; as an exapmle of why we dont send FF's (or cops disguised as FF's) to do cop work!!!!

    ------------------
    "Loyalty above all else, except honor."

  16. #16
    patrick a. hollister
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    by no means do i defend this jerk, but some of you are not facing the facts. most all depts. have some kind of background and/or phyic. checks done on all new members. but some people get caught up in the hero-zone, and after going though all the training and testing they just cant wait to put out a fire. also alot of rural volunter depts. just dont have that many alarms to answser and their members are bitting the bit to get to ride the big red trucks. check them out yes,but also train them, and talk to them, and let them know dangers before they do something as horrible as this jerk did.

  17. #17
    FireDoggy1404
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    Now Now people Lets all Act Like fireman and Behave ourselves. Not too long ago We had a Paid Fireman in This area Setting fires he was caught and Convicted. Personally I think that This guy we are all talking about should get the Maximum Penalty allowed by Law. But the Real punshment will Be given when he goes in front of the lord. Then he will be Punished.

    ------------------
    Firefighter C.M. Baker

  18. #18
    capt 49-4
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    May You Burn In Hell, You S.O.B.

  19. #19
    Bob Snyder
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry


    Rope + Tree = Solution


  20. #20
    lambo90
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    It's bad enough for a firefighter to perish because of an arson blaze, but to have the arsonist be a fellow firefighter, that is an outrage. This individual knew what could happen, and the worst possible outcome did happen, so he should receive the worst possible punishment.

    I would suggest a public hanging from the hose tower of the firehouse, or how 'bout burning him at the stake.

    Actually I would suggest the same punishment one would receive for the killing of a police officer. That would be a fair punishment for the unnecessary death of a firefighter.

    ------------------
    Joseph A. Lamb
    Lieutenant 91
    Warminster Fire Department

    The opinions expressed herein may or may not represent the opinions of any group or organization, with which I am associated.

  21. #21
    LT334
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    While I agree with all of you that this person should be prosicuted to the fullest extent of the law, I think we are all missing something here. Wheather the fire was set or accidental, this brother still would have been responding, and therefore the outcome would have been the same. What we need to know is WHY did the tanker truck rollover. Was the driver going too fast? Was he using a seatbelt? Was there a mechanical failure? Dont get me wrong, I am not condoning what the arsonist did, I am not blaming the fallen brother for his own death. I am simply saying that something somewhere went wrong in order for him to die. We all owe it to him to do everything we can to not allow this to happen in our own departments. Sooner or latter we are all going to have to respond to a fire, wheather set or not. It is our responsibility to get there safely.

  22. #22
    George Wendt, CFI
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    You all know my thoughtson FF Arson. I told you that something like this would happen someday.

    Random thoughts...

    Army is right on! I have advocated mandatory FF psych testing for years. Patrick, you are dreaming. The background checks conducted by most Vol. FD's are meaningless. Most of the FF that I have arrested for this stuff are first-time offenders. What is the background supposed to show then? Psych. testing is the only way to go.

    You have to understand what bail is for. Bail is not punitive. The purpose of bail is to ensure that the defendant will show up for subsequent court proceedings. You can't put a huge bail on somebody because you are mad at them. There must be an articulable reason, such as; danger to the community, not appearing for past court appearances, threat to flee the jurisdiction, etc. I assume that these arguments were made and taken into consideration by the judge when he set the bail. Let's face reality, there are some people who couldn't make $5 bail, so maybe that is the situation here.

    As far as a defense attorney, every citizen is guaranteed the right to a fair trial. If you were charged with a crime, you would want to have an aggressive defense. Remember, whether you like it or not, at this stage he is presumed to be innocent. That is what this guy is constitutionally guaranteed. If there is a confession and it was legally obtained, this will probably be a slam dunk, no problem. But he is still entitled to a vigorous defense.

    I'll also guarantee you that the fact that this death occurred as a result of a motor vehicle accident will definitely be taken into consideration. This is not a death penalty case.

  23. #23
    postal79
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    this is definetely a sickening occasion, and this b@$tard doesnt deserve the sweet air the rest of us breathe, my thoughts and prayers to the family of our fallen brother.. we are all out there doing the same thing paid or vol., trying to help someone in need, trying to keep someone from dying and this fire starting life stealing @$$, lights a fire that a true f/f died responding to.. sorry about the language but this outrages me personally!!
    Everyone stay safe

  24. #24
    JOEL KIMBALL
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    I've been away for awile, back problems again, and this is the first thing I see when I log on. I agree that the right and just punishment for these criminals, especially when they cause the death of someone, is the ultimate allowable by the law. In these cases it should be the death penalty. But another point I would like to throw out for consideration is this. We have all been around individuals that caused us to silently go Hmmmmmm! I wonder if that last grass fire, or that last out of the way abandoned house fire had some help from him or her? I'm not saying we should live in a enviroment of suspicion, but firefighter arsonists probably have very similar attitudes or habits. I don't know for certain about this because as far as I know it has never happened in our department. But there has to be something that he did in the past that caused some to silently wonder. I may be wrong, but going around setting fires, so you can get off putting them out, has to manifest itself someway. You can't have distrust in the department, but maybe we're to gullable or rationlizing. I know I always keep a little reservation about new members until they prove their trustworthiness. Especially if our runs increase. Is there a list of psychological profiles for these disturbed people? If anyone knows lets hear it.


    Tell your family you love them,(you never know when it may be your last chance).

    What happened to spell check?

  25. #25
    Firekatz04
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry

    My feeling is to first, lock him in a room with about 2 dozen REAL firefighters for about 5 minutes... EVERY DAY. Then, make him wear a "billboard" sign that says, "I killed firefighter Travis Brown" everywhere he goes in his local area.

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