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  1. #221
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    hctrouble25:

    #1. I disagree with your views on firefighting testing:

    It's my own personal experience that EVERY test now given; from drivers licensing to military induction to trade union apprenticeships and to firefighter exams, has been dumbed down - and nearly all common sense physical requirements have been eliminated.

    I've come to this conclusion by comparing the firefighter civil service tests that I took back in the 70s to those that my grown children are now taking.

    The differences between tests are as clear as night and day - and it seems that any slug can pass the 'tests' being given today.

    #2. What's true down there off I-78 in "Sleepy Hollow, New Jersey" ain't gonna be true everywhere else.

    I honestly do not believe that your fire department sees an amount of action that would allow you to speak with such expertise on so many topics, and do not believe that you really have much hands on experience.


  2. #222
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    trouble:
    Let's take a look at how this all started, shall we? You initiated this thread with the following question:
    "I am the only female on a fire dept. (Engineer on the first out pumper as well) of about 40 active members. The guys treat me with respect, I do my job, and there are no problems. What experiences have you had with female fire fighters? Do you think your firehouse would accept a woman as an equal? Are women capable of doing the job? Please share your thoughts."

    This brings to mind a couple of things:
    1.) You were obviously seeking approval and validation from a larger audience than your hometown company where you say there are supposedly "no problems." If you are so comfortable in your position why the need for recognition and approval from outside?
    2.) Based on the 15 pages of posts, it would seem the questions you posed were a significant issue to many readers of this forum. Unfortunately you failed to mention that you wanted only supportive, positive, warm and fuzzy replies. Sorry 'bout your luck.

    Now, about your latest post:

    Where the hell do you fight fire?
    I work in an economically depressed neighborhood of a major city on the East Coast. How 'bout you?

    I don't think these women would take kindly to you telling them that the tests were "dumbed down" for them.
    Frankly, I don't give a rat's @ss what they would take kindly to. I don't take kindly to having to work with a physically less capable co-worker in a profession where life and death often depends on that physical ability.

    Most larger cities now employ a number of women in their ranks.
    1.) Merely getting the paycheck or having the position, unfortunately, does not guarantee any degree of competence or ability these days.
    2.) Most fire departments have been, and continue to be subjected to varying degrees of pressure from outside the organization to recruit, hire, and promote females. Unfortunately, merit and ability are not the most important consideration, it's all about being able to point to a "diverse" work force. Virtually all departments who hire women make a public spectacle of parading them in front of the media, making photo ops readily available and generally advertising their "political awareness" and willingness to concede to the diversity issue. This is usually complemented by some spineless training officer who wants his next promotion spouting some lie like "These women are great, I'd work with them anytime!" There are hugs and smiles all around and everyone's happy.
    3.) Again, I ask how many women have done 20 or more years humping hose in active firefighting companies?

    I would love for you to go to Florida, Worcester, NY, Boston, and Chicago with me and tell the women on those departments that they were given a break on the tests and that is the only reason they have the job.
    So would I. Unfortunately, most of us who like our jobs and have bills to pay want to stay employed. "Protected classes," departmental charges, sexual harassment lawsuits and EEOC have made dealing with this problem strictly a "defensive operation." In other words, don't bother asking how most of us feel. We can't really tell you and you probably don't really want to know.

    CaptStan:

    Don't know how I made that spelling misteak. What was I thinking?

    [ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: NozzleHog ]

  3. #223
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    I see from reading hctrouble's experiences in the wild untamed western frontier of New Jersey that there is shock and amazement whenever the townfolk sees a woman fireman, the saloon across the street has rowdies parking in the firehouse lot, they got rekindles since the railroad come through town, that dang mud makes for some mighty funny faux pas, and even though she just a woman she's known for kickin butt round them parts; in fact she even sent telegrams to Warshington fer grant money.

    I'm telling y'all ... listening to hctrouble it seem like this here firehouse.com is a dang time machine too.

    Get a calendar hctrouble ... it's a new century.

  4. #224
    MembersZone Subscriber Diane E's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting thought...Why test in the first place? Why not start "everyone" off at the same level like the military? Those that last through "boot camp" are hired, those that don't, there's next time. It's probably a money reason....But with all the money wasted on tests and law suits..........

    PS there's no need to criticize ME personally on this....Just criticize the ideas.

  5. #225
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    So firemaster what you are saying is that any idiot can do this job, as long as they are strong? then explian to me how strong a pump operator has to be to figure out a friction loss formula.

  6. #226
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    Hey, this is starting to get good again!

    redmedusa41

    Thanks for the lesson on discrimination/harrassment.

    Always happy to help.

    I have not had to really deal with this where I am now.

    Good for you.

    Diane

    Blah, blah, blah.
    There are men who fail, too, so what's your point exactly??


    They shouldn't be and generally aren't there.

    What's your point, that the men who fail should be given the same opportunity as the females that do?

    NozzleHog

    Why don't we just do away with age limits and have validated annual fitness testing?

    Because then the hiring pool would be too big and the weaker would be lower on the list and therefore harder to justify in hiring.

    BucksEng91

    the males that fail are NOT hired...and they SHOULDN'T BE!

    RIGHT ON!

    captstanm1

    And all of these are PASS/FAIL tests. If you fail....YOU ARE NO LONGER IN THE PROCESS....regardless of your gender.....

    Outcome based tests for firefighting?

    "Well, Johnny, congratulations, you passed with a perfect score. And guess what? Suzy got a 70 and passed too. You two are equal!

    "So, Johnny, you ain't got to go home, but you can't stay here - buh by."

    Same type of BS has us stongly considering home schooling.

    I spent 21 years in career departments and 28 as a volunteer. I have administered a lot of promotional exams and never seen anyone male or female score a 100%. So what is that supposed to mean.

    And you know what? I've never seen the best chick outperform the average dude. Guess who got hired...

    For your information...the agility test to pass the academy is equivalant to the Combat Challenge. PASS/FAIL...not dumbed up!

    So a firefighter that comes in right as the bell rings and sucking wind like a new hoover is as physically qualified for the job as on that comes in 1/3 the time that is breathing like Micheal Johnson?

    hctrouble25

    I don't think these women would take kindly to you telling them that the tests were "dumbed down" for them.

    Take it kindly?!

    Who cares how they take it?!

    Some of them have fought to have the tests made easier.

    Maybe the reason these departments with "real-world, physically demanding but validated agility tests" have a low number of women is because of attitudes like yours.

    Yeah, it couldn't be because they can't keep up could it...

    I certainly wouldn't want to work and put my life on the line with a bunch of guys that didn't think I was capable, that didn't trust me...

    I wouldn't go in with anyone I didn't think was capable or that I didn't trust.

    I would love for you to go to Florida, Worcester, NY, Boston, and Chicago with me and tell the women on those departments (many of whom are officers nowadays too, imagine that :eek : ) that they were given a break on the tests and that is the only reason they have the job.

    You don't think down in the places of their mind they never want to hear from they know this?

    It has nothing to do with being politically correct it has to do with accepting that someone different than you can do the same job as you.

    Same job?

    Do you mean an equal job or just the same job that the minimum standards call for?

    Firemt47

    You have to pull your weight and do the job.

    Yep

    wrongWAY

    I honestly do not believe that your fire department sees an amount of action that would allow you to speak with such expertise on so many topics, and do not believe that you really have much hands on experience.

    But she's the "Engineer on the first out pumper.' If what you say is true, what does that say about the rest of the department?

    NozzleHog

    1.) Merely getting the paycheck or having the position, unfortunately, does not guarantee any degree of competence or ability these days.

    Ain't that the truth!

    Don't know how I made that spelling misteak. What was I thinking?

    Can you believe it?!. He made three spelling errors in the paragraph he hit you in!

    Diane

    Why test in the first place? Why not start "everyone" off at the same level like the military? Those that last through "boot camp" are hired, those that don't, there's next time. It's probably a money reason....But with all the money wasted on tests and law suits..........
    PS there's no need to criticize ME personally on this....Just criticize the ideas.


    OK, then don't take it personally, but what a stupid idea!

    Lets put all 3,000 applicants in rookie school for six months and pay them their due and earned wages. (Let's see... one years salary is 32K, divided by 2, carry the 1... = 16K. Now, 16K times 3,000 = $48,000,000, not including benefits that they are owed like insurance for rookie school)

    What taxpayer with any compassion and common sense is going to care that $46,400,000 of their tax dollars were wasted on 2,900 people that couldn't do the job. Hell, they were just going to draw that money from welfare anyway...

    Anyway, we'd get a bigger and better training facility, maybe we could get Reunion Arena now that the American Airlines Center is open...

    ggtruckie

    then explian to me how strong a pump operator has to be to figure out a friction loss formula.

    Then you're OK with hiring weaklings as engineers and other non-physical stuff?

    How strong do they have to be to hand-jack a line back 200' to a hydrant?

    DOH! Stupid me.

    Missing the hydrant was someone elses fault so the weak engineer shouldn't be held responsible for not being able to do it.

    [ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: mongofire_99 ]
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

  7. #227
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    Mongo fire_99.....What zoo are you from?????

    I have seen the "best chick" outperform the average dude.....who gets hired??? The female....as it should be...

    Pass fail does not mean you get a 70% or a 100%....you PASS or you FAIL!!!!! Pass and continue the process and FAIL...go home...male or female. What are you saying...??? If the agility test is timed and is a pass fail and a female finishes 2 minutes before the cut-off time and no bell ringing...and...male finishes with only 1 minute left and is almost out of air.....Who should we hire based on a test that is conducted under identical requirements. From your post it seems you are saying since the man is out of air we should not hire him and hire the female. But...yet...you bash women and say they cant do the job.. Which is it...make up your mind.

    Jump on the ship or you are gonna have to swim. It is the 21st century and you are still feeding the horses that pull the first out apparatus!

    Females outperforming males in promotional exams and assessment centers should be promoted... After all...assessment centers are done using outside assessors... No biases there.

    Bottom LINE: Male or female...if you can do the job you should get the opportunity wihtout harassment and interference from morons. If you cant...find another job!

    GGTRUCKIE....nice job....you learned well!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  8. #228
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    I have read many Pro’s and Con’s about this subject. There has been a lot of negativity against female firefighter on their abilities on the fire ground, but until we (males) start policing are on. We have no right to pass judgment. How many are out there (males) that are over weight and could not bench 75 lbs.

    There are good firefighters and there are bad firefighters. Nothing more, nothing less!!

  9. #229
    Forum Member BucksEng91's Avatar
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    I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over...

    If the chick can pass the test with a score that competes favorably with her male candidate counterparts, if she can get through the academy with scores that compare favorably with her male trainee counterparts, and if she demonstrates a similar physical and mental ability to do the job well and competently on the fireground, then yes...she can be a firefighter.

    ANY OTHER CRITERIA, including pass/fail type tests, dumbing down entrance requirements, creating new jobs on the apparatus for less physically able people, or any of the other bullsh*t that's been thrown around here...are inherently DANGEROUS and morally WRONG. No two ways about it. This is not an accounting firm. This is not the Deb shop down at the mall. This is a life and death business. If you, as a firefighter and/or officer, are willing to accept people who PHYSICALLY CANNOT DO THE THINGS REQUIRED OF THEM for the sake of making you feel good about what an enlightened fellow you are, then you're in the wrong business. I hear that accounting firm is hiring.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

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  10. #230
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    Excellent post mongo fire.

    I now realize why Captstan is so pro affirmitive action. Look at his profile. He is the proud father of a token female fire fem.

    Pass fail exams are a sham. Outside consultants have been used in major cities a zillion times. Every time, woman failed or scored so low that the results were thrown out in a federal court again and again and again. By adjusting the passing threshold, one can now lump inferior performers with top performers. That is exactly what they did in most major cities.
    They either made the exam pass fail with an idiot and whimp threshold, or used a band scoring system were everyone was equal regardless of the score. Nice standard huh? Again, why cant't they just simply use a competitive test and list. A competetive test does not ask your sex or skin color. Wanna talk about the cadet program in some major cities? How' bout your son works out and studies for two years and comes up on the top of the list. Hard work pays off huh? Well not really because little susy or judy or leroy who are in the cadet program go to the top of the list. Do you know what cadets do? They take tibetan art in college and wear a cute uniform for a year and go to the top of the list ahead of everyone and they got paid for coming in the back door. If 30,000 people applied for the test and there are 2,000 openings, why do you need a cadet program? There is absolutely no problem filling the job with top scorers. Could it be that little susy or judy suddenly appear in the paper as proud firfighters that "EARNED IT"? What a SHAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! Please dont repond with an explaination of how great your cadet program is. The only reason they were ever created was to hire low scoring woman and minorities. In New York the cadet program was just stopped by a judge who said it was bogus. I'm shocked, he actually had some balls to tell the truth. Anyway guess what, the prior cadet promotions were already done. A cadet with a score of 70 was appointed FF ahead of a candidate on the competitive list with a score in the high nineties.

    What real fire dept did you work in? Why dont you tell us in very simple terms why you think pass fail is in any way shape or form more desirable over a pure competitive exam. I can't think of one. Who on earth would not want to be rescued by a bigger and stronger firefighter? I can't think of anyone. Do you honestly think its fair that a candidate who took a different physical is now a strong supporter of the merit system because they can now do well on just a written exam for promotion? Suddenly the tune has changed! Hey"she earned it" What a freakin joke. How about I skip the captains exam and earn the chiefs rank? Hey I earned it! I dont get to fail an entrance exam and take the next promotion.

    Stan these are not attacks on you personally. I just feel that what is happening in this country is very unfair and dangerous. You are just a good example of selective blindness you never respond to any of the valid arguments made in support of the merit system. Instead of a fact based debate , you simply make blanket statements like"she can do the job" or "I have seen weak men too" Get real stan or better yet, get on a real fire dept .

  11. #231
    Forum Member SFD13's Avatar
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    16 pages of trashing women. 30 years ago it was minorities in the fire service. I have no problem as long as they can do the job Now its women and gays. Well get USED to it as they are not going away. So rant all you want.

    Just call me a commie-pinko liberal.
    "My friends, watch out for the little fellow with an idea." - Tommy Douglas 1961.

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    Originally posted by WTowner:
    ...There has been a lot of negativity against female firefighter on their abilities on the fire ground, but until we (males) start policing are on. We have no right to pass judgment. How many are out there (males) that are over weight and could not bench 75 lbs.
    Sorry Bill,
    You too have fallen into the same unfortunate trap of confusing the issue. You defend having weak women on the job by saying "Well, some guys are out of shape slobs too."

    Two wrongs don't make a right. Any guy who can't bench 75 lbs should be getting physical therapy, not riding fire trucks.
    That is another issue that needs to be addressed wherever the situation exists.

    Like Bucks, I feel like I'm repeating myself too so I'll just cut and paste:
    Yes, it's sad that people in whom so much public trust is placed let themselves get like that, isn't it? This is a problem that should be addressed in those departments... it doesn't mean we should lower our standards to accomodate people who will be even less capable a few years down the road.

  13. #233
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    Fire Line:

    Yet another confused reader who can't stay on topic. This thread is not about minorities or gays, OK?

    >get USED to it as they are not going away. So rant all you want.
    In other words, we should all just learn to accept, even embrace, mediocrity or worse since you can't change the system, right?

    You're a (confused) commie-pinko liberal, there happy now?

    [ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: NozzleHog ]

  14. #234
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    captstanm1

    What zoo are you from?????

    It's here in the metroplex and elsewhere, some call it life, some call it the real world...

    I have seen the "best chick" outperform the average dude.....who gets hired??? The female....as it should be...

    Go back and read all of my posts and you will see that I and nearly every other person posting to what you would consider the negative side of this arguement has maintained the "best person for the job" position.

    Pass fail does not mean you get a 70% or a 100%....you PASS or you FAIL!!!!!

    Now think real hard, you're probably a smart guy so you should be able to understand it.

    Why did they go to a PASS/FAIL test?

    Think about it...

    What are you saying...???

    Are you hard-a-reading or what?

    I'm saying performance counts, not just pass or fail. All other things being equal (trustworthyness, loyalty, thriftyness, cleanliness, bravery, reverence, crap like that), who do you want backing up up, the one that just got by or the one that excels?

    Well?

    Is a person that barely completes a physical PASS/FAIL test equally physically qualified as the person that excels at it?

    Well?

    Simple question, requires a one word answer - YES or NO.

    Who should we hire based on a test that is conducted under identical requirements.

    The candidate that excelled under those identical requirements.

    From your post it seems you are saying since the man is out of air we should not hire him and hire the female. But...yet...you bash women and say they cant do the job..

    Where?

    Which is it...make up your mind.

    It is made up, show me where I contradict myself.

    Females outperforming males in promotional exams and assessment centers should be promoted... After all...assessment centers are done using outside assessors... No biases there.

    Yeah, no bias there...

    We need to an outside firm to do our hiring so we can get a work force more "representative of the community."

    Nope, no bias there...

    Bottom LINE: Male or female...if you can do the job you should get the opportunity wihtout harassment and interference from morons.

    Yeah, I agree.

    And for somebody that pointed out a spelling error of one of those on the other side here, you sure make a lot of spelling errors...

    BucksEng91

    I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over...

    Yeah, that is too hard for some people to understand.

    firemaster

    Excellent post mongo fire.

    Thanks, you too.

    Nice explanation of PASS/FAILS. It's probably to simple for the liberals to understand though.

    NozzleHog

    Sorry Bill,
    You too have fallen into the same unfortunate trap of confusing the issue. You defend having weak women on the job by saying "Well, some guys are out of shape slobs too."


    You know, it's amazing how many times that has been pointed out, yet almost none of those on the politically correct side ever remember that, they just think we said women are too weak.

    Any guy who can't bench 75 lbs should be getting physical therapy, not riding fire trucks.

    Amen!

    Now that 20 years are going by (for me at least), it seems some of can't remember that PA tests were designed to keep physically limited/incapable MEN out, not as a test to keep out women.
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

  15. #235
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    Buckseng91......and Wtowner....you are on target..i agree...

    Bucks????? I said i was not..but got to reply to firemaster.....

    Read my profile again firemaster...I revised it and made it a bit clearer.

    I dont have a daughter..I have a sone who is a firefighter...and a good one and he will compete with women for a job some day. And if he wants one..he will work hard to pass the test. Cindy is my girlfriend and she is a darned fine paramedic and firefighter and is as qualified as anyone to do the job. NO ONE HANDED HER NOTHING. She should be an officer..but will not test because of the attitudes of people like YOU! You can assail me and my opinions.....but DO NOT ASSAIL my family and loved ones...DEAL?

    Is this a female related issue or are you now trying to turn it into racial also? What female does anyojne know named "leroy"

    I can not comment to you on Cadet programs and the justification. I am not from an area that has them.

    Pass fail is acceptable to me because it is equal across the board. Most places who have scoring tests have different standards for different genders (WHICH I AGREE IS WRONG). If you administer the same test with the same pass fail to everyone....then there is no "different physical" What department do you know (for a fact) that has hired someone who failed the entrance test and then promoted them because they failed that test too? Come on.....Get out of your own little world. I still believe if truth were known you were beat out for a promotion or something by a female and have a burr in your saddle over it! She out performed you on a pass fail exam.

    You ask about a stronger firefighter vs a female rescuing someone. What the #$ll difference does it make how strong you are. I bet for the most part, people dont care who rescues them as long as they get rescued. Ever heard of anyone turning down a rescue from a male to "wait for a stronger man?"

    I was in a real fire department. The one i worked for had 16 stations and was a combination dept. The Engine i was on averaged 8-10 calls in a 12 hour shift and we caught a decent amount of fire and I had some females work for me that were damned good firefighters and drivers and some that were not and washed out... However...the same was true for the males....hmmmmmmm. The volunteer department I was with for 28 years avearaged about 100 runs/month and we were not an EMS agency..just did some first responder stuff on the rescue companies 2nd calls and of course auto accidents...

    What "REAL" department you from? I think you are also still out in the barn putting down hay for the horses to bed on.. you know..the ones that pull the engines...
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  16. #236
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    FIRELINE is another fine example of the brain washed liberals

    You have some pair of balls(no pun intended) saying that anyone on this forum trashed woman.

    When you speak its progressive but when I speak "thats different"

    I have seen many posts debating the pitfalls and merits of different testing mechanisms that were designed to admit woman into the fire service. None of them trashed woman. They were simply fact based opinions on the changes made in the entrance exams of the fire service. For you to make a blanket statement that casts all proponents of the merit system as anti woman or minority is absolutely disgusting. Were the hell do you get off labling anyone with an opinion as discriminatory. What if suddenly your opinions were labled as antiwoman or anti minority. Oh I forgot, your another one who's views are "special" oops I mean "progressive" oops I mean "diverse". .

    "Thirty years ago it was minorities now it's woman and gays"

    Hey nitwitt, thirty years ago it was the federal government forcing municipalities to hand out jobs regardless of ones performance and these same arguments were debated. Well guess what, All of these race or sex based appointments or promotions were considered a failure.

    Well you guess what, more and more people every day in america are starting to agree with my views and not yours so you get used to it. We are here to stay.
    Proponents of the merit system were and are not antiwoman or antiminority or antigay. We simply believe in hiring the best, not just the qualified.

  17. #237
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    Sure, strength is an issue the way i read firemasters post he stated that firefighter testing should only be based on strength. But one more point i am no muscle builder and i have thrown 35' ladders by myself, i can do that because i have learned how. so again i support that we hire SMART firefighters. I would not want some moron backing me on the line no matter how strong he/she is. But than again i'd rather be on the truck.

    [ 08-12-2001: Message edited by: ggtruckie ]

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    Just read your last response capt stan and I must respond. IN NYC FEMALES WHO FAILED THE ENTRANCE EXAM WERE ORDERED ON THE JOB BY A FEDERAL JUDGE THEY LATER PASSED THE LTs EXAM AND WERE PROMOTED. YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE OFFICERS?

    You don't feel someone stronger can put up a thirty five foot ladder and rip out window guards from a third story housing project window faster. Your a freakin idiot stan to even say something like that. I now really doubt that you are a capt in a real city paid dept

    Regardless of a title seven challenge to the Captains test I manged to get promoted before the consent decree took affect so I was not bumped from the list because I was white, but others were and it is very unfair. The ratio was 1:14. One black to 14 whites. whites in competitive order with each 14th black regardless if the black passed or not it got so bad that blacks with a written score of less than 50 were promoted.

    The pass fail issue was already explained in my previous post you still haven't addressed the issue of a municipality using a pass fail to specifically get woman who would not make it on a competitive exam. Because YOU CAN'T.


    A female never beat any man in this dept on a physical because males always took a competitive test and the females took a different qualiying test oops I mean pass fail.

    I never attacked you or your family so stop saying that. I have attacked the assualt on the merit system, you just dont like it

  19. #239
    Senior Member
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    captstanm1

    Pass fail is acceptable to me because it is equal across the board.

    Blah blah blah, I knew I shoulda bet Bubba $10 you wouldn't answer, she never picks 'em.

    I still believe if truth were known you were beat out for a promotion or something by a female and have a burr in your saddle over it! She out performed you on a pass fail exam.

    There are no females on the department holding a higher rank than FF.

    Try again...

    You ask about a stronger firefighter vs a female rescuing someone.

    Nope, you spun it into that because you think it makes your weak arguement stronger.

    I asked about more or less physically capable firefighters.

    What the #$ll difference does it make how strong you are.

    It makes a big difference.

    I bet for the most part, people dont care who rescues them as long as they get rescued.

    No kidding.

    But I asked you who you would rather have watching your back, the one that just got by or the one that excels?

    Here's your chance to get Bubba ten of my hard earned dollars, maybe she'll send you half...

    Ever heard of anyone turning down a rescue from a male to "wait for a stronger man?"

    Nope, but I've been called over to do something someone weaker couldn't do a whole bunch of times.

    I was in a real fire department.

    Stick your neck out and define real fire department.

    The one i worked for had 16 stations and was a combination dept. The Engine i was on averaged 8-10 calls in a 12 hour shift

    WOW, you're some kinda firefighter, no wonder you're a captain!

    Were your fires hotter than ours?

    Did you just show up and they go out or did you have to put water on them like we do?
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

  20. #240
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    mongo....as in mongoloid???

    Look....no matter what I say you will challenge and vice-versa...so....

    We agree that opinions are just like.,.....hmmmmm..lets see....oh...ok..Fire Trucks....every department has more than one and some are better than others...(better than the other analogy I think)

    So lets agree to disagree and move on. You and I or no one else that posts here will resolve the issue.

    You or one of your firemaster asked about the department and I was just saying. To ask if "the fires are hotter" is absurd....just a point to start an argument. So no the fires didn't go out when we showed up. I am sure we put water on them just like you do....or do you use the scare tactic since you are so manly?

    You said you have had to do something that a weaker firefighter could not...hmmmmm..was that restricted to females...or both gender?

    I am simply saying that I feel as long as the person can do the job equally as good then give them a chance. Just because you can finish something faster does not make you better. I think the way you do it and the final outcome has a bearing. Sure a stronger person can raise a 35' ladder quicker....but stronger does not necessarily mean male does it? And for the record..I have seen promotional lists where a female was in the top 10 and was not promoted over someone else. The list was presented to the Chief and it said....listed in alphabetical order are the top 10 qualified candidates for the position of .......no reference made to the "score" 6 males were promoted in first round and then just before list expired the remaining 4 from the first list were promoted...

    NEXT SUBJECT PLEASE?
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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