Thread: Women in the Firehouse
06-13-2001, 08:27 PM #26daysleeper47Firehouse.com Guest
Wow...I see another Webteam shut-down waiting here...
06-14-2001, 10:46 AM #27NCRSQ751Firehouse.com Guest
If everyone would just ignore people like that and not bother to answer that kind of post they wouldn't have much reason to be here.
Lets stick to business and realize that there will always be people (some with false identities) throwing around extreme positions solely with the intention of inciting verbal riots.
Ignoring them is truly the best way to handle it.
Forsyth Rescue Squad (Chief)
Griffith Volunteer FD
06-14-2001, 10:56 AM #28LtStevieB82Firehouse.com Guest
Chief is right. No one is perfect, but to just be an out-and-out .... well, you know what I mean.
My vol. company has had several female members through the years, although only one on the line currently. It takes a special breed of person to join the fire service, and I think that goes double for women because of the resistance they may face (see page 1) and the overall locker-room environment and talk. Fortunately, the latter has never been an issue with us - the women dish it out as well as, if not better than many guys.
On the line, the women I've known in the service - at my co. and others - work harder than many men I've seen. When anyone - male or female - can apply themselves and do the job, hell, I say "Welcome!"
06-14-2001, 02:51 PM #29eCappyFirehouse.com Guest
Another "I am the only 'female' firefighter" thread.
I guess that I really don't have a problem with you or any other firefighter that finds it absolutley positively necessary to put their own little self indulgent "I'm special" defining prefix in front of the word firefighter.
If it makes you feel good, well go ahead and knock yourself out - but do I do have a problem with you insulting and demeaning other firefighters with statements that you're respected, accepted, blah, blah, blah ...!
Why wouldn't you be?
Just because you happen to be a female?
Your statements clearly suggest that you did not expect to be treated properly because of your gender, and they indicate that you yourself had preconceived opinions. I'm happy you were proved wrong.
If you're accepted and respected it's because you're doing the job - PERIOD.
Drop the 'female' prefix. The fire service ain't got females - just firefighters, just plain old stinking hard working firefighters.
06-14-2001, 03:29 PM #30Break-N-EntryFirehouse.com Guest
I'm the only rich, tanned, handsome, and articulate firefighter in my department, but the other firefighters still accept and respect me. Does anyone else have experiences with rich, tanned, handsome, and articulate firefighters? Do they belong in the firehouse? Can they do the job? Let's hear your experiences!
Yeah, eCap is right. These prefixes have got to go!
06-14-2001, 04:08 PM #31hctrouble25Firehouse.com Guest
Are either of you two females? Have you ever been discriminated against at your firehouse because you are a male? I think not. Before you judge me or any other "female prefix" fire fighter on here maybe you should try to get and know us. Am I proud of myself because I am fire fighter? Absolutely. Do I expect to be treated differently by most people because I am a woman? Yes. Why, because that is what happens in most departments and in the public. Just as most "female prefix" police officers are treated differently because they are female. I think you both unfairly judged me without asking me what this forum was really about. You jumped to your own conclusions. I wanted experiences good and bad from other fire fighters both male and female about what it is like having females on their departments. Do you know how many times a week I hear the term "fireMAN" used in my presence? A lot more than I hear policeman or fire fighter that is for sure. There are still a lot of people out there who assume that all firemen are just that, MEN. But most people refer to police officers as police officers and not as policeMEN. I don't want special treatment at my firehouse...like I said, I do my job and am respected for it just like I respect the guys who do their jobs. Do I want or expect "special" treatment? No. Just to be treated the same as any other member of a fire department who does their part to make the community safer. In the future please try to have a fair conversation with me before you just go ahead and bash me for no reason at all. I did nothing to disrespect you and don't appreciate the attitude I got from you. Have a nice day.
06-14-2001, 06:40 PM #32Sonny SampsonFirehouse.com Guest
htcBigTrouble.....If you are asking to be treated the same as men.....that is special treatment. Get over yourself girl.
I noticed how you put a when you posted. I'm taking a guess, but I'm gonna say you are quite the flirt around the station.
Well, contrary to many beliefs we a humans have not evolved out of our subconscious animalistic mating rituals. So when you come into the testosterone filled fire station wearing perfume, tossing your hair, and bending over to roll fire hose don't expect to be treated different unless you can somehow control nature.
Remember...not too many women were lined up to to be firemen when companies were doing 3-4 fires a shift. And I don't see many hangin' tough in the active fire companies of today when its so easy to hide out at a slow house and live off the reputation and tradition that real firemen created.
06-14-2001, 07:12 PM #33eCappyFirehouse.com Guest
Just a quick follow-up to my above post; I'm sorry but MY stomach turns each and every time I hear: "I am the only (fill in the blank) firefighter" and I quite frankly am VERY sick and tired of hearing those blanks filled in with "Female, Male, Gay, Straight, Lesbian, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Baptist, White, Black, Hispanic, Polish, Irish, Italian, Democrat, Republican, Impaired, War Veteran, Draft Dodging, and/or What-Ever-Else-You-Wanna-Name-It" because absolutley positively none of that crap, CRAP, C-R-A-P matters or means anything!
06-14-2001, 08:28 PM #34wrongWAYFirehouse.com Guest
I don't see anything wrong with a firefighter's decision to qualify his or herself with some sort of prefix, but this female firefighter issue is old hat, and it's really boring seeing that dead horse kicked around so much.
Women are not new to fire departments; quite the contrary, they've been serving for years and years, and I've seen fire department records from Civil War times that listed women as active members.
I really can't buy into any arguement that there are still some people out there that still think all firefighters, police officers, and mail carriers are men. That's nonsense and totally unbelievable.
Some of the firefighters and line officers on my department also just happen to be women but it's far from being newsworthy anymore.
06-14-2001, 09:00 PM #35Ford45Firehouse.com Guest
Sonny, LHS*, ***, sonny, LHS*, ***, anyone see a comparison??
ya know, the comment made about women joinin fire depts b/c they wanna meet guys is a load of ****. Althea, sonny cannot lose his testicals to cancer b/c that would require having them in the first place. if the "man" would rather die than be pulled out of a building, "he" obviously has an overly massive ego. by the way, BOTH my parents were firefighters, my mom wasn't the only VERY good female firefighter i know. if you "guys" can't stick with the times and adapt, then i think its time to get the hell out. Because i don't give a **** if someone is male, female, black, white, blue-who gives a **** if they can do it and do it right?? i sure as hell don't. seems to me the females are bein a little more mature than everyone else on this one.
06-14-2001, 10:22 PM #36Sonny SampsonFirehouse.com Guest
Ford 45, ease up on the profanity bro....Signal 99 Female in the house
Comparing me to LHS...I'm touched
Don't hate me because I'm not an easily persuaded, conformist like yourself. Just because we have different views doesn't mean I can't speak mine. In a way that is somewhat hypacritical(sp?)of you.
I'm sure you race to the computer to see what I say next. Your welcome for keeping you entertained. And I'm sure you gained some points with the ladies for sticking up for them.
PS...I'm sure your Mom was in that 2% that didn't join the FD because of her X-boyfriend.
06-14-2001, 10:30 PM #37Mr.MeanerFirehouse.com Guest
I joined in 1968, so I'm new at this firefighting stuff and still learning. I only know of two kinds of firefighters: good and bad. Can someone please tell me when all these other "labels" became important?
06-15-2001, 01:07 AM #38eCappyFirehouse.com Guest
A Post Script just for hctrouble25:
FYI yours truly joined back in the 60s when the law in our State required all firefighters to be male, 21 to 35 years of age, a minimum of 5'6" tall, and within his specific height/weight ratio.
It was guys like me that drove all over New Jersey visiting firehouses and asking crusty oldtimers to sign petitions demanding that the Assembly and Senate change the statutes and lower the minimum age and allow females.
It took years but the laws got changed, and females JUST LIKE YOU were finally officially allowed to join up and even get membership in the State Association.
A thank you is not necessary. I was just being a firefighter.
06-15-2001, 11:47 AM #39hctrouble25Firehouse.com Guest
Ecappy..don't worry I wasn't going to thank you. Do you want to be treated special because you went out and petitioned to have this done all those years ago? You are assuming that you should be treated differently because you did something to make a difference and were part of the minority trying to accomplish this? Boy we aren't so different now are we Ecappy? At least not according to you, since you seem to think that I want to be treated differently by people. When in reality I have said several times that I don't, but that yes it does happens in the public and in many fire departments. The fact is not that I am adding the label female to the words fire fighter..the fact is that I am a female..and therefore entitled to use that terminology if I so choose to. Now for Sonny, my favorite mentally crippled, egomaniac, sexist, underachiever. I flirt with the boys about as much as they flirt with me...which is very little - but yes we do, I have been friends with these guys for about 6 years now and it is just part of the whole firehouse banter. I don't date fire fighters, I don't bend over to show my boobs, I don't toss my hair, and if I drag a hoseline to the front door of the building, you better damn well believe that I am going in with the nozzle. And if you get in MY way you will be both very wet and very sorry. I wear makeup, perfume, and skirts...and yes I have even had a skirt on under my gear at a call, but I don't fuss when I break a nail, and I don't worry if my makeup is smeared, or if I am sweaty and stink during, or after a call. I am a "female prefix" fire fighter. With that said, as I previously posted this forum was just to get people's stories and experiences on working with women fire fighters...it is still not all that common - at least not around where I live, and I didn't say that everyone thinks that all police officers are men..I said that they don't use the words police man as often as they use the word fire man. If you had read what I had written instead of only seeing what you wanted to, this conversation would already be over. Have a wonderful day.
06-15-2001, 12:23 PM #40SlowPokeFirehouse.com Guest
Here's my experiences hctrouble25;
There are two types of firefighting females (Oops ... sorry about the suffix!) in my fire department.
The first type shows up for everything, gives 100 percent, has a beer or a soda and goes home.
The second type shows up for everything, gives 100 percent, has a beer or a soda, and whines that they're special, mistreated, or a work in progress.
But ALL of the above applies to the firefighting males in my fire department too!
06-15-2001, 12:37 PM #41hctrouble25Firehouse.com Guest
So sorry that calling a male fire fighter a male fire fighter, and a female fire fighter a female fire fighter - which is what we are and there are differences between the two - is such a problem. I simply wanted stories about what people thought. I don't care if you think a woman, or a guy with one leg, or a dwarf, or a 300 lb. black guy, or a american indian princess, etc. can do the job or not. I simply wanted stories or experiences you have had. Obviously some people just have to fight about everything. In the future I will ask the question "What do you think about fire fighters...can they do the same job as fire fighters?" How much sense does that make. And believe it or not a lot of people still ask me questions about how it is to be a woman on a fire department...and if I am treated differently by the guys, etc. I started this forum from my own personal experience...had I known that some of you "men" oh I mean fire fighters, or do I mean people? were going to get so nasty about it, I would have avoided the conversation..I unlike you don't need to be rude or judgemental and I don't like to fight about things that are obviously not worth fighting about. Webteam...go ahead and delete this forum since it is apparent that a majority of the people posting to it cannot speak intelligently about the topic.
06-15-2001, 01:30 PM #42eCappyFirehouse.com Guest
A whole lot of people have worked very hard and for very long at improving the fire service.
But the fire service isn't about apparatus, equipment, and new technologies - it's about people, and mostly about making their job safer and easier.
We are where we are today and enjoy the benefits we have only because the trailblazers of the fire service fought tightfisted politicians and red tape and never gave up.
By using the term 'female firefighter' you have singlehandedly undone the decades of hard work performed by your foresisters who fought long and hard by action and deed to fight and end discrimination, to gain respect, to prove they could do the job, and who earned the name "firefighter."
By using the term 'female firefighter' you have displayed an abysmal lack of respect towards all your foresisters - who just simply wanted to be called 'firefighter.'
Go ahead, turn the calendar back decades - to hell with the trailblazers that made it EASY for you - use 40-50 year old terms that they fought to end ..... as long as it makes you feel happy!
06-15-2001, 01:42 PM #43hctrouble25Firehouse.com Guest
We are not taking the fire service or women backwards...we are calling a spade a spade. When I speak of the guys I always say the guys on my fire department...when I speak of a friend that is a woman on a fire department I call her a woman. This is just what we are, men and women be it fire fighters, police officers, etc. There is nothing wrong with it..it just is. And as far as them trying to prove themselves as "fire fighters" well they did that, and that is why women are now accepted in fire departments. So what. That doesn't mean they are not still women.
06-15-2001, 02:06 PM #44ntvilleffFirehouse.com Guest
I'm a male firefighter that fights fires in my department. I used to be an engineer on the first piece out until I switched houses. What experiences have you had with male firefighters. Do think your firehouse would except a firefighter that was an engineer? What are your thoughts. (post them only if they won't offend me)
To hctrouble and everyone else who jumped on sonny and others. Thoughts were asked for, and thoughts were given. If you don't like it, tough. Some people don't mind about girls in the fire service, some dislike it very much and at least have the guts to say it straightforward. Not like everyone else in this namby-pamby-politically correct-don't you dare say things that might hurt my feelings- world. If you can't take others responses, don't post.
Oh... you wanted an experience with female firefighters? How about a female ff who hears an "offcolor" joke in the day room, then files a sexual harassment complaint, then files a complaint because all the firefighters shut up when she's around.
[This message has been edited by ntvilleff (edited 06-15-2001).]
[This message has been edited by ntvilleff (edited 06-15-2001).]
06-15-2001, 02:18 PM #45hctrouble25Firehouse.com Guest
I don't have a problem with anyone speaking their mind...but when people post ridiculous comments like:
"wearing perfume, tossing your hair, and bending over to roll fire hose"
"not too many women were lined up to to be firemen when companies were doing 3-4 fires a shift. And I don't see many hangin' tough in the active fire companies of today"
"I've got no problem at all with women in the firehouse. I think they are great! Especially in the bunkroom"
"women on the fireground I feel are unacceptable.....unless they are at the aide station or passin' out gatorade"
"actually about 98% of the females that I know that are MEMBERS of a fire department got into it because their X-boyfriend was a fireman and they wanted to meet (among other things) more firemen"
"just remember, they are probably just trying to get into your pants"
These are not opinions they are stereotypes and unfair judgements about me and other women. There is a difference. Had he approached this from a more intelligent and mature angle then I would have had a civil conversation with him about it. Unfortunately he is incapable of such conversations.
Oh and the example you gave, that is what I wanted when I started this forum...stories, experiences, both good and bad..not comments like those posted above. Personally I know some fire fighters (male) that let their adrenaline run away with them at fire scenes, or that spend all their time hitting on female passerbys when they should be doing their jobs...but that is not all men, and I would never classify all men as being sex driven maniacs. Each person has their own identity and personality and should be treated accordingly.
[This message has been edited by hctrouble25 (edited 06-15-2001).]
06-15-2001, 02:28 PM #46eCappyFirehouse.com Guest
Question for hctrouble25:
When you're not too busy patting yourself on the back and slamming the womens' movement into reverse what are YOU doing for the firefighters that are coming into your department after you?
We are, afterall suppossed to make things better than we found them. What are you doing in regards to some of the hot topic issues for NJ's firefighters; a) 911 wireless access, b) elimination of municipal fees, c) LOSAP retrocity, d) hepatitus screenings, e) age discrimination, f) junior and explorer insurances, g) blue light laws, or h) expanded FF1, just to name a few?
What's your position on those issues and/or what have you done to improve conditions for those that will follow you? ANYTHING?
Maybe we're only 50 or so miles apart on a map - but it's really DECADES!
06-15-2001, 02:37 PM #47Jake295885Firehouse.com Guest
How many of the guys in your department have you slept with? You sound like a woman that has been spurned a few times. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned......
You asked for experience so suck it up and take it like a man. Thats what you claim to be,just as good and as tough.
I have had many experences with women in the firehouse, most of them bad. One friend got run over by a ladder truck, one had a breast caught in a figure 8 during a rope drill, one sleeps with anything that will buy her a beer, many slept with multiple firemen causing fights over them, another clandestinly sleeps with a Captain to secure the easy task assignments.
Not to mention the lack of upper body strenght on the fireground. But its not all bad, its comical to watch a woman fireman try to throw a ladder, pull a plaster & lathe ceiling. run with full gear.
Like an earlier post said, thats just MORE FIRE FOR ME...........WE NEED MORE LIKE YOU GIRL.........Keep up the good work. Jake
06-15-2001, 02:51 PM #48hctrouble25Firehouse.com Guest
The only person patting themselves on the back is you eCappy. OK, yea for you, you are one hell of a man, you lead and don't follow, you are a real civil rights pioneer, etc. etc. I won't say what I think you really are...although a couple of words do come to mind...egomaniac and self righteous.
06-15-2001, 02:53 PM #49ntvilleffFirehouse.com Guest
All your points can be well taken. I haven't seen anyone take any personal jabs at you though. You posted a topic you knew would be very controversial, now you gotta take all the hits good or bad. You wanted to be a firefighter. It's a male dominated career and has been since the first caveman threw water on his bonfire. That's the way it is. I wouldn't join my grandmothers crocheting group expecting them to start talking about NASCAR and farting in the shower. Lay chilly girl.
[This message has been edited by ntvilleff (edited 06-15-2001).]
06-15-2001, 03:18 PM #50hctrouble25Firehouse.com Guest
ntvill: I see your point too...thanks for humor, it was very needed. Take care.
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