Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28
  1. #1
    Truckie5553
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Angry Can you believe this Judge's Ruling!!!

    OH MY GOD!!!! That is all I can say! We adapt NFPA 1500 with covers facial grooming. Every SCBA manufacture in the business has topic regarding facial grooming and mask seals, but hey these morons cry religion and some judge decided to let them do as they please. Hell the next thing you know we can stop doing interior attacks because its a tuesday and my religion wont let me do attacks on tuesdays. Oh yeah i cant do RIT anymore ither, because that doesnt conform to my beliefs, so im sure OSHA wont mind.

    I hope this judge doesnt get the case when the families of these men try sueing the fire department because their family member died in a fire due to smoke inhalation or they was seriously burned due to their hippy hair hanging to their back caught fire! I hope im not the only person upalled by this ruling but this has got to be the most rediculous thing i have ever heard of.

    These opinions are my own and do not reflect those of my department or agency that i work for.

    ------------------
    Captain James Collier
    McMahan Fire Rescue
    KCTCS Area 6 Instructor


  2. #2
    Grit
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Too much religion.

    Same bullsh*t reason we can't legalize prostitution, make it safer, tax it, and lower taxes for the rest of us.

    But that's besides the point.

  3. #3
    SFD-129-3
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Thumbs down

    Whats next, making the military easier bc some doughnut stuffer can't pass the pt test? They knew the requirements before they put in their paperwork.

    Its issues like this that will cause division among our own ranks, let alone the country as a whole.

  4. #4
    NozzleHog
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Truckie:
    No, you're not the only one appalled by this.

    This is how great institutions like the fire service are destroyed: gradually, in small increments, like erosion.

    If we have no discipline and cannot maintain basic, sensible standards what do we have?

    I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused.
    -----------------------------------------
    DTRT-PTB


  5. #5
    ntvilleff
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I wonder what firefighting experience that judge had or if he even did any research.

    The only option left is that though they may still be "firefighters", they can be banned from participating in any structural firefighting or hazmat operations due to the safety implications. Having them sign a waiver of injury won't do diddly squat if faced with a slick lawyer and another idiotic judge. let 'em hang out with the juniors and probies now.

  6. #6
    ntvilleff
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Hmmm, If those firefighters got hurt due to a bad seal and the consequences thereof, and sued the fire dept., could the fire dept sue the judge for passing that ruling?

  7. #7
    ffemtmjb
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Red face

    The thing that is really unfortunate about this deal is that these ff's are putting their fellow ff's and their department's constituents at risk by their actions. What happens if one of them goes down in a fire because of a poor mask seal? All of a sudden, their partners are in jeopardy and all efforts move away from seach & rescue and fighting the fire so that the downed ff can be rescued. I have a real problem with any religion where it is okay to put your co-workers lives at risk so that you can have a beard. Just my opinion.

    [This message has been edited by ffemtmjb (edited 06-26-2001).]

  8. #8
    WillB
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    Wasn't one of them "Rastafarian"?

  9. #9
    FireRebel
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    one thing I have noticed over the years, people mostly with no goals, no sense of self, basically the people who insist on not working, wake up one day and join a religion or a group who also has the same ideals as they do, they post and make up "rules" as they go to justify their worthless selves..some of these " religions" I have came across have no biblical ties or references, they honestly make up and create new ideals that better suit their lives and call it a religion, so they will not be presecuted....I could go on, on..... it has no place in the Fire service....

  10. #10
    xchief
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Unhappy

    It's a sad sad world were in. for the guys in D.C. I hope your being very carefull watch your backs>>

  11. #11
    Turk II
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Post

    I think many people are looking at this the wrong way... people read the story and right away jump down the three fire fighter's throats because of their religious beliefs. One thing you need to remember is that these beliefs that the firefighters have are their way of life.

    This is hard to understand for most of us who do not share their same beliefs... we don't have to agree with them, but at a minimum we need to understand and respect them. If these three gentlemen do not want to shave their beards then come up with another sollution. Give them administrative details or assign them as drivers. There's plenty of things that a "fire fighter" can do without wearing a mask.

    Should their safety be compromised? Absolutely not. If they can't wear a mask then they shouldn't be even thinking about wearing a mask. But just remember that one day NFPA may come up with some crazy idea that conflicts with a widely practiced Christian or Jewish belief.....

    - Turk II
    - Fire Service Instructor / Religious Studies Undergraduate

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    3

    Default

    As I stated in the previous thread the right to practice religeon is one of our greatest freedoms as Americans. BUT

    Safety is paramount! Assign these guys to the pump panel.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    'bedrock' LI, NY
    Posts
    242

    Default

    unless medically instructed or required, no one should be removed from any aspect of the fire service because of their religious beliefs!

    when EMS in NYC stated that everyone needed to be clean shaven below the lip line, it raised hell. people w/ religious or medical complications were forced to shave, for fear of disciplinary reprocutions. That ain't right either.

    DON'T LET ANYONE PUSH YOU AROUND!!!

    (I never had a problem getting a seal when I had a gotti in my younger years)

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    louisville, ky, USA
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Originally posted by toneloc177:
    unless medically instructed or required, no one should be removed from any aspect of the fire service because of their religious beliefs!

    when EMS in NYC stated that everyone needed to be clean shaven below the lip line, it raised hell. people w/ religious or medical complications were forced to shave, for fear of disciplinary reprocutions. That ain't right either.

    DON'T LET ANYONE PUSH YOU AROUND!!!

    (I never had a problem getting a seal when I had a gotti in my younger years)
    (I never had a problem getting a seal when I had a gotti in my younger years)

    We are not talking about a gotti here..we are talking about full facial beards. A BIG DIFFERENCE. And the medical thing, there isnt on yet, but if those guys see any fire in any quanity, one of them is gonna get burned.
    54041738

  15. #15
    Forum Member BucksEng91's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Warminster, PA
    Posts
    576

    Default

    The issue is simply this - the reg was in place BEFORE these guys joined. This is not something that NFPA or the DCFD just came up with on a whim one day to f*ck with people.

    I get tired of people making that tired old religion argument - "gee, if the NFPA comes up with something that conflicts with Jewish or Christian beliefs..." Well, you know what? I hold the human resources bozos and the spineless officers most responsible...the first group for hiring people who are not in compliance with department regs, and the second group for not enforcing an "on the books" safety regulation.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Playing devil's advocate here, I must disagree what for the most part has been the general agreement. Religion is a very touchy subject. Just because our religions dont say we have to grow our hair out, who are we to condemn another mans religion for its beliefs? Truckie, calling them "morons", how grown up is that? Just because you dont agree with something there is no need for name calling. I dont agree with you in this case, but am i calling you out of your name? More than just being men they are our brother firefighters. I think these firefighters are not stupid, they know the risks by having alot of facial hair. Overall this is a very touchy subject that i am sure we will be talking about in the futer to come. As i said earlier though, these men are our brothers, and they put their butts on the line all of the time. So regardless of religion I think we need to accept them as such, our brother firemen.

  17. #17
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,583

    Default

    I hear that the Taliban in Afghanistan is looking for firefighters...full beards allowed by Islamic law!

    Jewish firefighters can wear Nomex yarmulkes!

    Sikh firefighters can wear Nomex turbans!

    My opinion...if a firefighter feels the need to have facial hair or have long hair for religious reasons, and it interferes with the PPE issued by the Department, let them sign a waiver stating that they are aware of the hazards posed by full facial hair and they accept full responsibility for death and injury as a result of their decisions, thereby absolving their employers, brother and sister firefighters and the manufacturers of the PPE of any responsibility for their injury and/or death.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    louisville, ky, USA
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Originally posted by Titan4016:
    Playing devil's advocate here, I must disagree what for the most part has been the general agreement. Religion is a very touchy subject. Just because our religions dont say we have to grow our hair out, who are we to condemn another mans religion for its beliefs? Truckie, calling them "morons", how grown up is that? Just because you dont agree with something there is no need for name calling. I dont agree with you in this case, but am i calling you out of your name? More than just being men they are our brother firefighters. I think these firefighters are not stupid, they know the risks by having alot of facial hair. Overall this is a very touchy subject that i am sure we will be talking about in the futer to come. As i said earlier though, these men are our brothers, and they put their butts on the line all of the time. So regardless of religion I think we need to accept them as such, our brother firemen.
    null More than just being men they are our brother firefighters. I think these firefighters are not stupid, they know the risks by having alot of facial hair.

    I really dont think that they do know the risks. If they did then this wouldnt be an issue. Tell me this, if you had to have these guys, who like it or not are a serious safety issue, backup you when the **** hits the fan or someone who can follow the guidelines set like a true brother should, which would you pick.

    they put their butts on the line all of the time.

    Sure they put their butts on the line all of the time, and every crew member who goes in with them is being put on the line as well. These guys are going to get hurt and then lets see whats going to happen. You are gonna hear their families screaming lawsuit cause they was put in harms way. This is just another group trying to see just how far they can push the system and they are using the religion platform to push it.

    Im sorry if you feel like im not acting like an adult because i used the word moron, but think about it, these guys knew the rules when they came in and still fought to change them. What are they gonna change next that doesnt go along with their religion. Religion has a place, but it doesnt belong as a major issue in the work place.
    54041738

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Llano, Texas Llano
    Posts
    148

    Default

    it is the same story. people want to become a firefighter yet they want every one to obey the rules and regulations but they do not have to. it is like someone moving next door to an airport and complaining about the noise. These firefighters have an oblication to the citizens they protect. I believe that the Lord would overlook some of them not having beards. after all the citizens who they are protecting are God's children too.

    LC

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    P.G. County
    Posts
    99

    Default

    i agree with larry cook on this one. these guys chose to be firefighters, no one made them choose this profession, if they want long hair and beards maybe mcdonalds is hiring,

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts