Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    911WACKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Waverly, NY
    Posts
    184

    Default RURAL QUINT OR NOT

    WE COVER 52 SQUARE MILES RURAL, NO HYDRANTS AND ONLY POPULATION OF ABOUT 3500 AND GROWING FAST. WE CURRENTLY HAVE A 100 ACRE INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX BEING BUILT AND POSSIBLE MUNICIPLE WATER COMING,SHOULD WE REPLACE ONE ENGINE WITH A QUINT??
    Firefighter/NREMT-P/Public Safety Diver
    May we ride into the darkness only to return as safe as we started!!

  2. #2
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Richmond Fire Bureau
    Posts
    12

    Default

    NO

  3. #3
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Garland, TX, USA
    Posts
    139

    Default

    What other equipment do you guys have? Do you already have a ladder truck or one responding w/ mutual aid?

    The quints I've been around get beat to death if they run much...especially if you use it to run all EMS and fire runs. ...most are going to have smaller on-board water supplies which can be a problem if you don't get a muni-water sys or get a bad one. Poor road conditions in your area too will effect a quint a lot faster.

    I would tend to say no to getting a quint, but I'm not sure how you guys are going to use it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    P.G. County
    Posts
    99

    Default

    i`d say that unless your going to get a lot of financial support from the industrial complex it isn`t worth getting a quint that you probably wouldn`t be able to use in the rest of your rural community.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    911WACKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Waverly, NY
    Posts
    184

    Default

    SORRY I SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE SPECIFIC---WE HAVE 2 ENGINES 2 TANKERS A EMS RESCUE AND 2 UTILITY TRUCKS---THERE IS MORE TALK OF ADDITIONAL INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS TO THE AREA WE COVER. OUR NEAREST LADDER TRUCK IS 20 MINUTES AWAY AND NOT AUTO DISPATCHED.
    Firefighter/NREMT-P/Public Safety Diver
    May we ride into the darkness only to return as safe as we started!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Dalmatian90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    3,120

    Default

    Not sure you could ever get a good answer for local needs here, certainly not on that limited amount of information...

    But some random thoughts:

    1) Are you looking for a true Aerial Ladder or something like a Telesqurt? The Squrt may be a good compromise, and should be looked at. Personnel thought, I'd love to see more nice simple Telesqurts on a 4x4 commercial chassis.

    2) How good are you at moving water? First things first, and you should be able to move water first, then look at aerials to distribute it. That comes down to looking at if your engines, LDH, and Tankers are in good shape before investing in an aerial.

    3) Is their adjacent mutual aid that could provide the truck function? Can they arrive in a timely fashion?

    4) Do you have the manpower to staff your other operations like Interior Attack, Water Supply, and take on the aerial -- or would it be robbing drivers and firefighters how would've better been used getting other trucks on the road?

    5) How good is your sprinkler code? If your new development is all fully sprinklered, you'll have fewer times in the future to deploy an aerial master stream!

    6) ISO Rating Consideration: A combination of 5 buildings each either over 35' tall and/or 3500gpm fire flow requirement triggers the need for an aerial under their schedule.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
    20/50

  7. #7
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Shavertown PA
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Why not? You gain the use of an aerial,probably gain more ground ladders, and may be able to upgrade to a bigger pump, if you buy a new piece. Of course, you loose on board water and gain a bigger heavier piece. If you don't carry over 1000 gal on your engines, its not really that much of a loss.
    Granted, they aren't for everyone but they do have their place. Its up to you to decide if it is in your area.
    It is better to try and fail, then quit and succeed.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    95

    Default

    I agree with SFD. First, if you have any homes or businesses over one story tall, they can come in real handy for getting an elevated water stream down on top of a breached roof or third floor window. Next, you say you are rural. Got any farm elevators or grain storage? Having a ladder truck makes for easier rescue from these structures. The key, as with any other piece of equipment you have, is to set up some guidelines of when you use the apparatus and when you don't.
    General McAuliffe said it best, "Nuts".

  9. #9
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    18

    Default

    There are several dozen FD's running 1000 to 2500 gallon watr tanks on their quints. So no you don't have to loose water carrying ability.

  10. #10
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Garland, TX, USA
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Yikes! There may well be quints out there with 1000+ G tanks, but I would really be cautious about buying one. I'd like to see a quint with a 2500 G tank. I'd be afraid to drive it on anything but straight, flat, 6+ inch thick concrete...definitely don't want to cross any small bridges. It would have to be tandem axle so you will trade some manuvering and handling abilities.

    Quints can be great, but make sure you know the disadvantages of them and how they apply to your jurisdiction.

  11. #11
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Shavertown PA
    Posts
    24

    Default

    While there may be several dozen running "Quint-tankers", there are thousands running either 75's with 300g+/-, or 100's with about the same water.
    Not saying there is anything wrong with them, but I think as a sweeping generalization, you will probably find more quints with smaller tanks standard.
    It is better to try and fail, then quit and succeed.

  12. #12
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Don't be afraid, if you drive a 100 foot tower or ladder, odds are it weighs the same as a quint tanker.

    It is all about specs, low specs result in these rigs with small tanks and no ability to lay hose, ie Richmond VA, think a bit about what you are doing and you get 500 or 750 tanks and the same device on a rig that can easily lay hose and spend the same bucks.

    Need more water or hose space spec it.

    I wonder how you make a case for not carrying a big tank with all the talk about minimum staffing, hard to get more than one rig out during the day etc? Why not run a swiss army knife instead of a herd of apparatus that might or might not get out.

    [ 07-04-2001: Message edited by: snorklesquad ]

  13. #13
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 1999
    Location
    Choudrant fire Dept
    Posts
    10

    Default

    911 wacker
    GAH 74 has a point. before spec'ing anything with that much weight, look at the streets and roads it will travel on. if your roads will not handle it, you will have a worthless "swiss army knife" that will make parade runs and sit in the station.

  14. #14
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Shavertown PA
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Good point snorklesquad. I was thinking more on the lines of the 1000+g tanks. That just seems to make a truck big, heavy and tough to maneuver in some areas.
    It is better to try and fail, then quit and succeed.

  15. #15
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    McConnellsville,NY
    Posts
    16

    Default

    "Dalmatian90" Has a good point. A nice 50 or 75 foot "telesquirt" would be a good compromise,(as long as you can move the water), With industry in your response area and talk of more coming. If anything ever happens in a structure of that type you will wish you could get to the roof with out actually putting FF's on it. A 50 or 75 foot ladder allows you to do that and get a head start until you can get aid from other companies, with out adding a ton of extra size and bulk, the way a 95' platform or 100+ foot stick on a tandem axle unit would. But, also I read some good advice on looking at your area first, if you have very narrow streets, low hung cable or phone or electric lines you could have a problem and we both know how bad the winters up here in new york can get. With some careful thought and time I'm sure you sould be able to spec a unit that best fits the needs of you and your community, ladder or pump, STAY SAFE.
    RDS3604

  16. #16
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5

    Default

    I have read with interest the replies posted here and there are certainly some valid points. Before I was promoted I worked in a suburban / rural area such as yours and when an industrial park came they purchased the first Aerial unit for us. Most industrial parks tend to have building that are typically large in width and length but are not very high. Municipal water came witht he park and was extended throught part of the community surrounding the park.

    As far as the roads go the park roads and roads surrounding it will be quite capable of handling a Quint as tractor trailor will be using them quite a bit.

    When our park was put in the initial pressure at the hydrants was only running about 35 psi. Our Quint had a 1050 pump and made out OK. With the new occupational health and safety rules that are affecting each of us daily we now find we are using these types of vehicles more and more. Instead of roof ladders it is not uncommon to use a Quint at residential homes to gain access to the roof. They are safer and faster to set up then traditional ground laddders in many cases. Of course specialized training and practice are the keys to using them.

    We also have a policy that if manpower is 2 it is called an Aerial and if it has a full crew it is called a Quint and can be used as a first responding engine. If your department is seriously considering buying one I would recommend purchasing a 75' with a good sized pump. As far as water supply is concerned carefull planning must be made to determine response schedules for water supply. This will assist you in determining what size tank you should order for this vehicle.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    911WACKER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Waverly, NY
    Posts
    184

    Default

    First I would like to thank all you for the replies- as it would be the talk has been leaning towards a tele-sqiurt here or maybe a 75' stick, we already have a tandem axle tanker and have no problems getting it anywhere in our district. As far as moving water for master straems several large tankers in the area as well as a LDH Task Force which would meet the water needs and has proved itself at several big fires in the area> Once agian thanks for the advice all of you
    Firefighter/NREMT-P/Public Safety Diver
    May we ride into the darkness only to return as safe as we started!!

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    141

    Default

    BE VERY VERY carefull with a 50' or 75' foot quint. In your typical industrial park you have the loading docks with 53' trailors, add out rigger distance, your would have a hard time to reach the roof if at all. I have seen the neighboring dept come up 2 foot short at a 2 story apartment fire with a 75 ft quint.

  19. #19
    This space for rent
    NYSmokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Recently relocated to Baltimore County, MD
    Posts
    1,018

    Default

    911-WACKER,

    Make sure you take into account weight restrictions!!! A department near mine got a 75' quint and had it delivered. After they loaded all of their equipment on it, it was too heavy. They had to ship it back to the factory where they PUT ANOTHER AXLE ON IT!!



    Somebody goofed along the way and they were without their brand new truck for awhile. Good luck with your purchase.

    Stay safe out there.
    Tom

    Never Forget 9-11-2001

    Stay safe out there!

    IACOJ Member

  20. #20
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    51

    Default

    I would say for you situation, yes. Well I think you need to look at what your specific situation is. There are a lot of variations out there for quints; they can be customized for every dept. I see a quint set up as a truck with a pump or a glorified wagon with a ladder. Either way it is set up for the job it is meant to do. I would say for you situation, yes.

    In my dept we have a quint as one truck simply because of weight distribution. It was a concrete block or a pump. In our situation it is used solely as a truck (tower to be exact). I have seen it used to supply water only twice in dire emergencies. An advantage of it compared to our Baker is the quint is self sufficient, can nurse itself off a hydrant where the Baker needs a pumper to supply it.

    Hope this can be of some help to you.

    [ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: jizumper-5 ]

    [ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: jizumper-5 ]
    Keep Safe!

  21. #21
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    Posts
    22

    Default

    There was a very good artical in Fire Engineering, April 2001, "To Buy (or Not to Buy) a Quint. It goes over alot of advantages and disadvantages of quints. Some questions you should look into is cost, your district's accessibility to a large vehicle, the weight of a vehicle with bridges, reduced booster tank size, water supply, increased maintenance time or will you need to modify you station for the truck to fit? Another thing of consider is the length of the ladder. The longer/heavier duty the ladder, the bigger the truck.

    My department's ladder truck is technicly a quint. It's has a 2000 gpm pump and 3 preconnects, buts big, 50 ft long, 11' 9" tall and weights 70,000 pounds. There are many places in our rural district that it will not go or just not very fast.

    The best advise is for your department to sit down and look at your district. See if your district is right for a quint.

    Good luck

  22. #22
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Shavertown PA
    Posts
    24

    Default

    If you are buying new, just use caution in your specs and you won't end up with a vehicle thats too big, too heavy, or won't go where you need it. My co's quint makes all but one turn in town, goes anywhere the engine can, usually quicker. Most companies will have a demo unit available that they will bring out to your area. If you are curious if a vehicle will work, now you actually have one on your streets. Put it through its paces!
    It is better to try and fail, then quit and succeed.

  23. #23
    502
    502 is offline
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Chemung,NY USA
    Posts
    10

    Default

    As an officer in the fire dist. in question In can tell you that there are 2 aerial device's 10 minutes away and a third 20 minutes away. While I do belive that we could use an elevated masterstream type piece our primary response area is and will remain mostly rural, Our population is growing fast but that alone does not justify a quint.

  24. #24
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    apollo,pa 15613
    Posts
    3

    Default

    I belong to a rural dept. in western Pa. We bought a 55' tele-squirt in 1977 and are in the process of replacing it with a new aerial. After lots of investagation we are looking at 75' aerials. we set up a test for all aerials that consisted of turning onto a driveway on a narrow backroad with a tiewall on both sides and about 16' in between. Then took it around the township on some of the more narrow and sharp, tight turning roads to see how they performed. We also followed behind to see how the truck handled the roads. We settled on a 75' after looking at everything from a 95' platform to 105' aerial. We are now starting into the spec stage of the new truck, but, we are looking towards putting a cafes system on it to help with limited water supply. The one truck we liked has 450 gal. of water 30 gal. class A foam. 20 gal. class B foam. A 2000 gal. pump and caple of hauling 1000 ft. of 5 inch. on a single axle.

  25. #25
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    wisconsin
    Posts
    10

    Default

    IT SOUNDS LIKE JAKE AND DALMATIAN HAVE THE RIGHT IDEAS. BUT, I HAVE SOME THINGS TO ADD.
    HAVE ALL NEW BUILDING IN THE INDUSTRIAL AREA SPRINKLED!!! IF YOU NEED NEW EQUIPMENT, THEN GO WITH A TELESQURT ( SPEC. IT OUT AS AN ENG. FIRST--THEN ADD THE SQURT ) As of now i don't think you need much of a true true truck.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register