1. #51
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    We also have a right to our religious beliefs and freedom of speech. I agree with many of you this is America. I agree they should sit or ride. It sounds to me that this is probably an issue for the "Political Bullshi_" can. The city needs to stand up for this country just as many of us do each and every day.
    K.A. Dempsey
    fire69dawg@yahoo.com
    "If you want to make God laugh, tell him what you are doing tomorrow"

  2. #52
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    An open request to Miami-Dade

    Greetings;

    As a believer in, and staunch defender of, the US Constitution, I respectfully request that you immediately stop oppressing these people and let them continue to enjoy the freedom of speech and association guaranteed to them by the oppressive US Constitution: FIRE THEM IMMEDIATELY.

    In that action, you to will show your willingness to allow these individuals to enjoy the benefits the US Constitution has provided them and you will no longer be oppressing them. They will be free to go on bantering to any halfwit commie symp person and/or reporter that will listen about how oppressive the US is while at that very same moment, the US prepares to send people to die for the sole purpose that they can continue to bitch about being 'oppressed.'

    At the same time, you will be improving the effectiveness and safety of your firefighters and providing the utmost in fire protection for your community. These individuals cannot be trusted to perform their sworn duties at ANY establishment proudly displaying the American flag, even the mosques of the religion they supposedly belong to and therefore have absolutley no business being called to duty to protect anyone or anything in your community.

    On their way out, please smack 'em upside the head and tell 'em mongo says (and please quote me exactly):

    "Oppression? You three idiots don't know spit about oppression. Oppression happens when you're living in afganistan and you aren't muslim or in china and are a christian...

    The sole purpose of the attack on America was to oppress US!"

    Very Truly Yours,
    Mongo

    [ 09-20-2001: Message edited by: mongofire_99 ]
    It's only my opinion. I do not speak for any group or organization I belong to or associate with or people I know - especially my employer. If you like it, we can share it, you don't have to give me credit. If you don't, we are allowed to disagree too (but be ready to be challenged, you may be on to something I'm not). That's what makes America great!

  3. #53
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    As I read down through some of the responses that have been posted most of us have the same opinion, that they should sit or ride. I can not believe that anyone that is a fire fighter right now would even think of something like this. In my mind these individuals are not the true professionals and heroes that fire fighters have become over time. If I was one of the members of this fire company I don't know if I could truly feel safe going into a fire with them. Are they going to pull me out or leave me behind because i have a American Flag on my gear or on my helmet?

    If they don't want to ride then they should find another job. We don't need people like that in our profession.

  4. #54
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    Just read a story on this and here are some quotes from a Lt. "Miami-Dade Fire Chief Dave Paulison has ordered all county fire engines to carry the American flag in honor of the firefighters and police officers killed in New York in last week's terrorist attacks.

    For anyone who resists now, "it's a penalty of a direct-order violation and it's going to be very, very strict. I can assure everyone that these gentlemen are going to ride the truck with the flag."

    Fernandez said if the two firefighters refuse to ride when they return to work, they "will be met with severe discipline."
    TW

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    Personally, I don't think that the issue of these persons freedom has anything to do with this. It is the freedom of the fire station that is being threatened here. They should be able to fly their own flag without being stopped by pressure from other groups.

    Furthermore -- If some man is kicked in the balls and I wear a shirt that says I love men to counter that, that doesn't make me a man, it means I don't support evil acts toward men.

    (I am a woman, actually.)

    Why would anyone want to support evil? At this time and place even people in foreign countries are flying US flags, and they aren't Americans at all.

    As far as religion goes, we all know that individuals typically make those kinds of choices on their own. Why are they so touchy? Does this religion considers the USA to be evil? This is not an evil country.

    At this point we are even victims. They should try empathy instead of nonsense and religious truth instead of bull****.

    I can think of one group, but I won't name it here that might be behind this. But as I said, individuals chose their own reactions.

  6. #56
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    If you dont respect the american flag enough to ride a truck that is displaying that flag, you dont deserve to even be in this country.
    I'm embarrassed to say that you are in the same profession as me. All 3 are a disgrace to the uniform they wear, and dont deserve the protection or the liberties that very flag provides them with.

    In my opinion, if you dont respect the flag, get out of this country.

    picklefire@hotmail.com if you have a problem with that.

  7. #57
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    After reading the updated story, it's even worse. FIRE them. I like the Chief's response too.. nice to see a Chief who's got a pair!

  8. #58
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    I like Mongo's idea best...way to go, Mongo!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  9. #59
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    These two "gentlemen" are most likely just after attention. Somewhere in their early childhood they were deprived of parental attention and so are attempting to make up for this lack by this open disregard of our nations symbol. They apparently have no problem spending the money they earn(which has an american flag on the bills along with In God We Trust)so that throws out the religious theory. After this theory is gone and can't be argued for, what grounds does this leave our two gentlemen to refuse on? Again,a traumatic experience or lack of parental attention/affection must be the base problem here. I suggest they seek counseling, it might help or else obtain a passport and exit this great country and seek refuge with others of like mind.

  10. #60
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    I'll pitch in to buy some plane tickets to Afghanistan for these folks.

  11. #61
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    What are they thinking in miami. You don't want to ride on the trucks because the fly an american flag. then guess what find another job maybe as a janitor in an elementary school. We are all BROTHERS and SISTERS in the job where in and for these brothers that had lost there lives in this terrible tragic time well then you have no heart or soul in my mind what kind of person are you that flying a flag on a truck stops you do you even care of the community that you serve or most of all your own family well if that stops you then it say's what kind of firefighter or engineer you really are and you should find something else because i'm proud to fly the flag on any day or month of the year to bad your "NOT"

  12. #62
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    Just an update...I just got off the phone
    with not only the Public Affairs office of
    Miami-Dade Fire/Rescue, but the Fire Chief’s
    office and the local IAFF office.

    I could not believe what I read on the net,
    and had to find out myself! It appears that
    these are two individuals (African-American)
    who refused. A third individual (African
    -American)was on the Miami local TV giving
    an interview. I guess by his remarks he
    really disturbed the sh*t!

    The public affairs office told me they have
    had about 400+ calls in the last two days.
    Only one caller has supported these two
    individuals!

    The Fire Chief’s office said basically the
    same thing, being inundated by phone calls
    and faxes. They also wanted to re-emphasis
    that these two individuals are currently on
    leave, and when they return, they will be
    given the chance to ride on the vehicles or
    refuse. If they refuse, they do have appeal
    rights and representation in any
    disciplinary action.

    The Union office has also has had many phone
    calls, and are selling T-shirts, with all
    proceeds going to the families of the FDNY
    firefighters who perished.

    One unnamed source told me that NO WAY were
    they going to remove the flags from the
    Fire Engines!

    The fire service is currently under the most
    media attention ever in United States
    history. Make no mistake, this issue is
    being disseminated to more and more people
    daily. Please don’t allow these two sorry
    individuals to give Miami-Dade Fire Rescue
    or the United States Fire Service a
    tarnished image, and don’t allow them to
    make light of the sacrifice that hundreds
    of FDNY firefighters made.

    I would ask all of you to contact these
    folks and express your outrage.

    Fire Chief Paulison
    Voice (786) 331-5122
    Fax (786) 331-5101

    IAFF Local 1404
    Voice (305) 593-6100
    Fax (305) 591-9654

  13. #63
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    You have got to be kidding me about this one. I'm sure they don't feel oppressed when they cash their paychecks. Maybe they should go to their "homeland" where ever that may be and see how "oppressed" they are there.
    Their jobs should be given to people who really want to be firefighters and care about this country.
    Lets hope someone finds out who they are and where they live.
    Send 'em to my FD, we'll show 'em oppression.

  14. #64
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    This is not right even some of our Canadian departments have put the U.S.A. flag on our trucks

  15. #65
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    Every nation that does things will sometimes do things wrong. The US as the worlds foremost superpower has had to do more than almost any other nation that has affected the world in the last decades and not all of it was good or wise. The flag symbolises the nation and, for all its faults, the US of A was founded and is run on principles that aspire to the very best that humans can reasonably make work. People, Politicians even Presidents who do not act according to those principles are eventually bought to book by other Americans (the vast majority) who do! When a nations people have performed as magnificently as all those involved in recent events any thinking person would be proud to be associated with your flag. That is why it is being waved in Countries round the world today. Citizens who wish to disagree have the freedom to do so and that should be respected. However Firefighters who are paid by, operate under the laws of, and are responsible to protect the citizens of a Country and can't abide the flag of that country should look for a new job or maybe even a new country.
    Jim Maclean. IACOJ NZ branch

  16. #66
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    Get a rope! (Now, that being said.....)

    Oppression? PLEASE!! I'll show you oppression! These sorry a*#&* should have been with us in the Gulf during Desert Stomp... we saved their sorry butts, but still couldn't do "X", "Y" or "Z" "for fear that it would offend our hosts", etc., etc. Go to Saudi or Afghanistan, walk out in the town square, whip out a Bible and start preaching anything remotely Christian in nature. Guaranteed their security police will be glad to give you a demonstration of oppression. If they don't just shoot you on the spot...
    Sorry f*$(* like these make me (only briefly) wonder why I bothered serving, but then I get to go where I want, when I want, and meet with whomever I want, and it reminds me all over again why we fight for Old Glory!
    HazMat
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    We gotta be nuts...we're running in when the rats & roaches are running out!

    Let No Victim's Ghost Say That We Didn't Try
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    Disclaimer:
    These are my opinions, and only mine, and do not reflect the views of my department.

  17. #67
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    To anyone who thinks that the american flag is oppressive, then they should move somewhere else and see how free they are there. We don't need these flakes in our country. If you think that you are going to go anywhere in the US and not have that flag, then you are living in an unrealistic, pathetic little dream world.

    In closing: If you don't the the US and all that it has to offer; all that the american flag stands for...Then get the hell out because we don't want you!

  18. #68
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    DISGRACEFULL....Everytime I look at that flag I get stronger. 400 brothers lost in FDNY and these selfish bastards cant step up and give them the honor they deserve. Thats o.k. i'll put another flag on my truck (with my captains and groups blessing) to make up for those who can't see farther than the end of thier own nose.
    ps.... to my brothers in Florida, thanks for endorsing president Bush, the fire service did'nt need that 300 million anyway.

  19. #69
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    Maybe since we got the comm. link to Miami Dade we can all get together and suggest to the Chief to FIRE their SORRY a**es or at least give them a nice long non funded vacation to think it over.I wouldn't want any of those three jerks behind me on a LINE.

  20. #70
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    I live in South Florida and I can't even describe the disgust I have for these three mutts. In my 25 years proud years in the service that I love, I can't ever remember an incident that upsets the public as well as other brothers like this one. Hey mutts, you sleep in a station that flies the American flag. I watched the telecast with the rest of my brothers at the fire station last night. I have never seen a better backtracking dance step in my life. Then to add insult to injuy, you turn it into first a safety issue, then a racial issue. This is not a safety issue or a racial issue, this is a show of respect for our fallen brothers and a show of support for the country we love. This is the same country that affords you the oppurtunity to go on camera and make the statements you made.

    Gentlemen, and I use the term lightly, you disgust me. This is a time of solidarity, mourning, and healing. This is a time to remember our fallen brother, over 300 of all colors and creeds. Get off your soapbox. You have disgraced the service that you serve.


    Bob
    FTM-PTB-EGH-RFB ::

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    I AM NEW TO FORUM. I AM WORKING MY FIRST NIGHT SHIFT READING ALL THE LATEST. I JUST READ THE ARTICLE FROM MIAMI DADE. SITTING HERE AFTER ALL THE EVENTS OF THE LAST WEEK AND STILL IN DISTRESS, I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT A BROTHER (EX-BROTHER(S)) WOULD MAKE THIS ISSUE OVER THE ONLY NATIONAL SYMBOL THAT WE CAN ALL RALLY AROUND. EACH STORY I HAVE READ REMINDS US OF THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, BUT IAM LEFT WONDERING ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF THE OTHER FIVE PEOPLE ON THAT SHIFT. BEFORE I WAS A FIREFIGHTER I WAS A NAVY VETERAN. OUR UNITS ARE COVERED IN AMERICAN FLAGS AND RED WHITE AND BLUE RIBBONS ACROSS THE FRONT OF ALL THE APPARATUS. NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVEN SLIGHTLY OBJECTED TO THE DISPLAY PATRIOTISM OR EVEN QUESTIONED THE PURPOSE OF THE ACT. I AM IN AGREEMENT WITH THE FIREFIGHTER FROM UTAH. I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THE CALL. YOU HAVE TO FIGHT TO KEEP ME OFF. I EVEN GET DISAPPOINTED WHEN ONE PIECE GOES AND THE OTHER DOSEN'T. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT MY BROTHERS. THEY ARE NOT DEDICATED AND DO NOT DESERVE THE TITLE:FIREIFGHTER. t_pennington31@hotmail.com

  22. #72
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    (hey capt, got your email and if you liked my other idea, the guys and I have come up w/ this one)

    take these anti-American mother-fukers, and take a 2 1/2 w/ an 1 1/4 solid bore tip on the end of it, shove it up each one of their *****es w/ 80 pds at the tip!!!!!

    Welcome to America you pieces of garbage! Let's help clense our country of these types . . . people who are good enough to take the job, and then spit in our country's face.
    May God bless all the people and families who have lost
    their lives on 9-11-01, to those also lost on Flight 587, and to the rescuers who responded to both.

    "I'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying (the way it is)."

    FDNY-EMS - Still New York's Best!

    e-mail always accepted @
    toneloc177@firehousemail.com

  23. #73
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    I have one suggestion for these 3 pieces of crap.

    Pack your bags and get the fu@* out of this country!!!!!!!

    That these 3 NON-FIREFIGHTING SCUMBAGS would use a tragedy of this magnitude to bring about their own self serving ideology is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard of!!!!!

    I feel for any firefighter that has to ride with this scum. I don't feel they could be trusted now to protect my back or the publics!!!!!!!

    Can the department say THESE simple words? YOU HAVE DISGRACED THIS FINE PROFFESSION AND THIS DEPARTMENT, NOW YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  24. #74
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    That flag stand's for the freedom that they can practice there own religion, and they say it stands for oppression. What the heck is up with that? Sounds like a Miami is hiring 2 year olds that want it there way, or they will sit at home crying like babies.
    Volunteer(noun): Completely Under-paid Professional

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    Captain 12, you asked what do I think. Here it is....... I say to the ff's in miami and the people in california. If you dont want to see our proud and beautiful flag, THEN GET THE f*** OUT OF MY COUNTRY!! We have just had a group supported by several nations declare war on us in case you had not noticed. This is a time when patriotism is shown. It is obvious to me that these people dont have any. As president Bush said, you are either with us or with the terrorists. These people by there hatred for our flag (and therefore our country) have said volumes of what and who they support! They should be sent to bin lauden, they probably want to help him. Lord knows that we dont need them. In the community I serve such attitudes would not be accepted (or tollerated) by our citizens. It is just this simple: America, love it or leave it!
    Firefighter/NREMT-B/Hazmat Tech
    To the Lord Jesus Christ: Thanks for providing a career where we can make a difference.

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